NFA Trusts

[Rob Boudrie]

10. Some day, an email will drop into your inbox from the BATFE with a "status update," with an attachment (that won't display on your i-anything) that is your approved Form 1.

I thought the BATFE send you a form with an actual stamp attaches by US Snail.

 

[bigblue]

I thought the BATFE send you a form with an actual stamp attaches by US Snail.

If you file with paper you get a paper stamp.
If you eFile you get an electronic stamp that you can easily print out if you want a paper stamp.

I print out each stamp & travel form and keep copies in my range bags as well as in a Google doc account.

 

[ScottS]

I thought the BATFE send you a form with an actual stamp attaches by US Snail.

As bigblue stated, with a paper-filled and submitted form, you get that actual form back with a nice $200 stamp attached and cancelled on the top of the form itself. Has an official look and feel to it. Most people scan/copy the original and keep copies available for use.

With an eFile, you get a .pdf version, which looks just like the copy of the actual stamp you made above. You look at it and can't help wondering..."this is it?"

Also, as I mentioned above, when the eForm arrives via email, the actual form doesn't appear on your iPhone or iPad, causing many people to initially shit themselves thinking there's no attachment. The forms do appear correctly on a computer.

 

[ADCoviello89]

Thanks for the info, gents. I went with rock maple via nfapro.com. Great, attentive person to work with and I'm very pleased with what I've been provided. 0 regrets. Thanks again, time for some stamp hunting

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[Mr Weebles]

Your name isn't required; it could be initials, or anything you want. If I had to do mine over, I might choose "This We" or "Power We Can" or "In God We" so my lowers would be engraved "This We Trust," "Power We Can Trust," or "In God We Trust."

I went with "BFYTW Trust LLC."

 

[ScottS]

I went with "BFYTW Trust LLC."

I'll admit it...I had to Google it.

Good stuff.

 

[massBRS]

With an eFile, you get a .pdf version, which looks just like the copy of the actual stamp you made above. You look at it and can't help wondering..."this is it?"

The PDF stamp is actually quite larger than the physical paper stamp. Not that it matters. The documentation isn't what matters, it's the registration so when anybody has any doubts, they can call the ATF and verify it's a legal firearm. 304 616-4500 is the number to give 'em.

I went with "BFYTW Trust LLC."

why LLC?

 

[UncleDuke]

Odd, I've never received a .pdf version of my Form 4 and tax stamp. Even when the Title II dealer that handled my transfer submitted my paperwork electronically I received a paper Form 4 (created from the electronic submission of the paper copy that I signed) with a cancelled tax stamp.

I don't see any advantage to having an NFA Trust unless you're concerned about a line of succession when you die or possibly restrictions being imposed by state or local ordinances. After the new law takes effect next month everyone on the trust will have to undergo fingerprinting and nothing is really gained by having a trust.

 

[71montess]

Odd, I've never received a .pdf version of my Form 4 and tax stamp. Even when the Title II dealer that handled my transfer submitted my paperwork electronically I received a paper Form 4 (created from the electronic submission of the paper copy that I signed) with a cancelled tax stamp.

I don't see any advantage to having an NFA Trust unless you're concerned about a line of succession when you die or possibly restrictions being imposed by state or local ordinances. After the new law takes effect next month everyone on the trust will have to undergo fingerprinting and nothing is really gained by having a trust.

They will only need to get printed on subsequent filings I was thinking.

 

[ScottS]

Odd, I've never received a .pdf version of my Form 4 and tax stamp. Even when the Title II dealer that handled my transfer submitted my paperwork electronically I received a paper Form 4 (created from the electronic submission of the paper copy that I signed) with a cancelled tax stamp.

I don't see any advantage to having an NFA Trust unless you're concerned about a line of succession when you die or possibly restrictions being imposed by state or local ordinances. After the new law takes effect next month everyone on the trust will have to undergo fingerprinting and nothing is really gained by having a trust.

First, only eFiled forms produce .pdf "stamped" forms, and Form 4's are not eFiled. eForm 4's existed for like, a day, and even then they were not available to individuals, only entities (trusts, LLCs. etc.). Your dealer simply used a computer to produce the paper Form 4.

Trusts still have many advantages after 13 Jul, including the ability to have others (e.g. wife, adult children, etc.) access/use the NFA assets, as well as storage consideration: it has been argued that those not allowed uncontrolled access to NFA weapons cannot, for example, have the combination to the safe where they are stored. In addition, you can always file the eForm with only one trustee, then add additional trustee via amendment afterward, and they have no fingerprint/photo requirement, so no hassle for them.

In short, there is no downside being introduced into the trust equation vs. individual ownership. Some of the upside has been removed, true, but that's not the same thing. They still make a lot of sense for a lot of people.

 

[ScottS]

They will only need to get printed on subsequent filings I was thinking.

Correct. There is no "retroactive" fingerprint/photo requirement. Only those "responsible persons" listed in the trust at the time of filing (post 13 Jul 16) will need to submit fingerprints/photos/background check form.

Plus, SilencerShop's innovative "kiosk system" will remove a lot of even that hassle, at first for cans and eventually for other items.

 

[Mountain]

Please bear with me, dumb question alert:

I have at least 2 uppers in the stash. Purchased / Transferred via group buy FFL but not yet registered as a firearm. I can use both for the NFA trust, and I have time before the deadline?

 

[Asaltweapon]

Please bear with me, dumb question alert:

I have at least 2 uppers in the stash. Purchased / Transferred via group buy FFL but not yet registered as a firearm. I can use both for the NFA trust, and I have time before the deadline?

That is my understanding so I hope so. Lower engraved already but not built.

 

[ScottS]

Please bear with me, dumb question alert:

I have at least 2 uppers in the stash. Purchased / Transferred via group buy FFL but not yet registered as a firearm. I can use both for the NFA trust, and I have time before the deadline?

Uppers? Are we talking AR's? If so, do you mean lowers?

Yes, you still have time to establish a trust and file/eFile (or just file a traditional Form 1 as an individual) before 13 Jul. Two lowers means two Forms 1/eForms 1. File and get them registered, and then build at your leisure. Based on current timelines and the pre-Jul rush, you won't get the stamp back for 100+ days anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not yet registered as a firearm." Is that the FA10 thing or whatever? If so, that won't impact you filing a Form 1 to make an SBR.

 

[Mountain]

Uppers? Are we talking AR's? If so, do you mean lowers?

Yes, you still have time to establish a trust and file/eFile (or just file a traditional Form 1 as an individual) before 13 Jul. Two lowers means two Forms 1/eForms 1. File and get them registered, and then build at your leisure. Based on current timelines and the pre-Jul rush, you won't get the stamp back for 100+ days anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not yet registered as a firearm." Is that the FA10 thing or whatever? If so, that won't impact you filing a Form 1 to make an SBR.

Oh jeez... LOL yes, lowers. Pre coffee on a vacation day.

Thanks!

 

[Grendizer138]

Uppers? Are we talking AR's? If so, do you mean lowers?

Yes, you still have time to establish a trust and file/eFile (or just file a traditional Form 1 as an individual) before 13 Jul. Two lowers means two Forms 1/eForms 1. File and get them registered, and then build at your leisure. Based on current timelines and the pre-Jul rush, you won't get the stamp back for 100+ days anyway.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not yet registered as a firearm." Is that the FA10 thing or whatever? If so, that won't impact you filing a Form 1 to make an SBR.

I had the same question. I had some correspondence with RockMaple a month ago and then had trouble identifying another trustee. I have a lower and if there's still time to get all this BS done by 13-July I'm going to email him today and get it done and build the AR at my convenience.

Thanks

 

[ScottS]

I had the same question. I had some correspondence with RockMaple a month ago and then had trouble identifying another trustee. I have a lower and if there's still time to get all this BS done by 13-July I'm going to email him today and get it done and build the AR at my convenience.

Thanks

With a properly drafted trust (and I can't believe RockMaple is doing anything but top-notch trusts), you can always amend the trust later to add trustees, so if you can't get a hold of Uncle Remus or whoever, just finalize the trust, file, and then amend at your leisure to add whomever you wish as a trustee.

 

[chris_1001]

Dumb question perhaps, but can I put my non NFA firearms in a NFA trust for protection and succession?

 

[LuvDog]

Dumb question perhaps, but can I put my non NFA firearms in a NFA trust for protection and succession?

Yes


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[bigblue]

Dumb question perhaps, but can I put my non NFA firearms in a NFA trust for protection and succession?

That is really the biggest advantage to a properly crafted trust: Protecting all of your firearms not just allowing you to make a few SBR's or buy cans.

I mean really, think about how much money you have tied up in firearms. Do you seriously want that ending up in the state's hands because you didn't properly plan?

 

[chris_1001]

That is really the biggest advantage to a properly crafted trust: Protecting all of your firearms not just allowing you to make a few SBR's or buy cans.

I mean really, think about how much money you have tied up in firearms. Do you seriously want that ending up in the state's hands because you didn't properly plan?

I figured as much, but most everything I have read its all about SBR's and Cans. I'm pretty familiar with trusts for asset protection in general.

I set up an NFA trust 2 weeks ago (Rock Maple), just need to print it, hit the bank, notarize and fund it. I'm in on the AR9 GB and from that want to do it as an SBR.

I just want to make sure my stuff is protected. Especially in MA.

Not to hijack the thread, but what is entailed in a transfer stuff I currently own to a trust? Do I need to do FA-10's (which would suck) or....?

 

[bigblue]

I figured as much, but most everything I have read its all about SBR's and Cans. I'm pretty familiar with trusts for asset protection in general.

I set up an NFA trust 2 weeks ago (Rock Maple), just need to print it, hit the bank, notarize and fund it. I'm in on the AR9 GB and from that want to do it as an SBR.

I just want to make sure my stuff is protected. Especially in MA.

Not to hijack the thread, but what is entailed in a transfer stuff I currently own to a trust? Do I need to do FA-10's (which would suck) or....?

The MA FA10 system does not recognize trusts so to purchase a new firearm, you do the FA10 with the FFL as yourself then go home and complete the assignment with a witness (or two, I forget). If you build an SBR, essentially you as a person FA10 the non-pistol/ non-rifle/SBR thing (that is not defined under MGL) as a handgun and then complete the transfer to the trust. The state does not have a mechanism to learn about the trust transfer. At all.

The conversation about which category to FA10 the SBR is a whole 'nother thread but suffice it to say that when we have asked, we have been told not to use "rifle".

 

[ScottS]

The MA FA10 system does not recognize trusts so to purchase a new firearm, you do the FA10 with the FFL as yourself then go home and complete the assignment with a witness (or two, I forget). If you build an SBR, essentially you as a person FA10 the non-pistol/ non-rifle/SBR thing (that is not defined under MGL) as a handgun and then complete the transfer to the trust. The state does not have a mechanism to learn about the trust transfer. At all.

The conversation about which category to FA10 the SBR is a whole 'nother thread but suffice it to say that when we have asked, we have been told not to use "rifle".

 

[bigblue]

SBR = "grey area" to the extreme in MA. Probably more than any other firearm due to the ATF, NFA, trusts, AWB, & FA10.

 

[dgrafton]

Dumb question perhaps, but can I put my non NFA firearms in a NFA trust for protection and succession?

That was my biggest incentive. E-filing for Form 1's was a bonus.


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[UncleDuke]

While trusts will allow others on the trust (i.e., wives, children, friends, siblings, etc.) to possess/use Title II firearms as per prior to enactment of the new rules, most people don't want to have to go through the additional hassle of fingerprinting, background check, and CLEO notification.

 

[headednorth]

While trusts will allow others on the trust (i.e., wives, children, friends, siblings, etc.) to possess/use Title II firearms as per prior to enactment of the new rules, most people don't want to have to go through the additional hassle of fingerprinting, background check, and CLEO notification.

Thats my issue, no one Im close with shoots. Cant see asking family members to jump through those hoops for something they have no interest in. Do you need others in your trust?

 

[NorthShore]

When you "fund" your trust do you need to open a bank account or are you just stating that the trust is funded?

 

[ScottS]

When you "fund" your trust do you need to open a bank account or are you just stating that the trust is funded?

To "fund a trust" is to assign something to the trust. The trust then owns that thing. In many trusts, it is done via a simple Assignment Sheet. It could be a dollar, it could be a lower you intend to SBR, pretty much anything.

To be valid, a trust must be funded, and you fund the trust by assigning something to it.

 

[NorthShore]

To "fund a trust" is to assign something to the trust. The trust then owns that thing. In many trusts, it is done via a simple Assignment Sheet. It could be a dollar, it could be a lower you intend to SBR, pretty much anything.

To be valid, a trust must be funded, and you fund the trust by assigning something to it.

thanks for the response - I have been sitting on my trust for a couple of months and need to get it done/submitted next week.