Obama to Announce New Executive Action concerning guns:

[StevensMarksman]

Serious question...why is it bad to require background checks for personal sales?

First, it unconstitutional. Second, if I may spread some logic through a metaphor; It's like thinking a background check on cigarette sales will stop lung cancer.

StevensMarksman


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[groundscrapers]

You have to be REALLY connected to find a PD that will give a hobbyist dealer a "demo letter". The night Sgt in a very green town told me that his department routinely got offers for "demo letters", and universally discarded them.

If you want to go the licensed route to get post-ban full autos, the only practical way is via an 07 FFL, which is also the only way to legally possess cans in MA.

I just get my love letters straight from the military but I suppose if I needed to I have some PD's I could tap into.

 

[sig shooter]

Not sure if people saw this:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/obama-gun-control-rule-mental-illness-217340

********************
Under the rule, which takes effect next month, for the first time health providers can disclose the information to the background check system without legal repercussions.
“The disclosure is restricted to limited demographic and certain other information needed for NICS purposes,” the rule states. Disclosure of diagnostic or clinical information is prohibited.
********************

So, how many people who are on any medication will be reported now....

All this does is clarify the process of providing info to the FBI on prohibited persons who have been adjudicated mentality defective or committed to a mental institution. The doctor still cannot disclose daignoses or clinical information. However, this is an EA which does not carry weight of law, the changes would need to be made to the respective laws and regs.

 

[Rider]

It's all about registration, they want to know who has which guns in their possession. Registration is confiscation, when ya'll figure that out you will understand why they want a nics check on every gun sale. If you bought 20 guns legally and had a nics check done then why do they need #21 checked? It's registration pure and simple for that day they get courage to do an Australian style ban.

I'm not disagreeing, but what does a NICS check even get you? So you can surmise that a gun was purchased, but you don't know which or how many. And if you are in a free state, there isn't anything stopping you from selling a gun to someone you trust in cash with no records. Unless you think ATF agents are hiding behind every bush.

This reminds me of the first handgun I ever bought. I met a guy on another flight before shift change. He gave me the gun. I gave him the cash. It was a ratty old CZ 50 that jammed half the time. He said he bought it in Germany, but who knows.

This country has really gotten to where you need to be a damned lawyer to obey the law.

- - - Updated - - -

All this does is clarify the process of providing info to the FBI on prohibited persons who have been adjudicated mentality defective or committed to a mental institution. The doctor still cannot disclose daignoses or clinical information. However, this is an EA which does not carry weight of law, the changes would need to be made to the respective laws and regs.

And MA does not comply already.

 

[sig shooter]

I'm not disagreeing, but what does a NICS check even get you? So you can surmise that a gun was purchased, but you don't know which or how many. And if you are in a free state, there isn't anything stopping you from selling a gun to someone you trust in cash with no records. Unless you think ATF agents are hiding behind every bush.

This reminds me of the first handgun I ever bought. I met a guy on another flight before shift change. He gave me the gun. I gave him the cash. It was a ratty old CZ 50 that jammed half the time. He said he bought it in Germany, but who knows.

This country has really gotten to where you need to be a damned lawyer to obey the law.

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And MA does not comply already.

All I'm saying is that proposed change does not require us to start shitting our pants....yet at least. I am more concerned with the proposed new dealer precedent. I also do not like the proposal for SSA to start sharing info on people who have payees because of a mental health condition, this could **** a lot of people who are harmless, most mentality Ill people are harmless and the gov discriminates against them.

 

[teaser452]

All I'm saying is that proposed change does not require us to start shitting our pants....yet at least. I am more concerned with the proposed new dealer precedent. I also do not like the proposal for SSA to start sharing info on people who have payees because of a mental health condition, this could **** a lot of people who are harmless, most mentality Ill people are harmless and the gov discriminates against them.

you're right. There is no need for me to change my underwear just yet.

But I can see where this is going. Eventually anyone who's ever been prescribed an anti-depressant will be denied 2a rights. Even if you were taking Wellbutrin for quitting smoking.

Of course this is just common sense, because even here, in this bastion of 2a loving people, we've argued that it's not the guns, but the crazy kid in Newtown and the crazy kid in Georgia who shot the church up and the crazy kid at that community college, etc etc. So now the antis will use that as a wedge to drive us apart, take the argument that we used, agree with us, and ban anyone who ever sought help from owning a gun. They're playing the long game.

PS: why do you think so many doctors seem to be asking patients if there are guns in the home? For eventual confiscation if the doctor can find a reason to prescribe medication.

 

[dennism]

So expanded access to NFA firearms and some vague redefining of what a dealer is? Am I missing something or so far is this a positive for us?

 

[browncoat]

So expanded access to NFA firearms and some vague redefining of what a dealer is? Am I missing something or so far is this a positive for us?

The NFA stuff is a slight win, in my opinion. The vague dealer stuff may not have much of an impact, will have to wait and see. The Internet sales task force will probably be a big hassle for a few people doing legitimate sales on, for example, this forum. Gotta be seen to be doing things

 

[brian.z]

The vagueness is the key. If no one knows exactly how many firearms a person has to sell in order to be considered "in the business" (the "fact sheet" said someone had been prosecuted for selling two guns) or the circumstances under which people can be charged, they can use the rule to prosecute whomever they choose.

 

[GM-GUY]

This isn't over - there is a plan. IMO there should be no changes to anything without congress. Didn't the 1986 Machine Gun changes go through congress?

 

[PaulR]

Chiming in here, too lazy to read 10 pages.....help a newB out: If this goes into law that would mean I can't do a FTF transfer with my buddy using the Mass Gun transfer portal? Everything goes through a dealer now? Thanks in advance..... aul:

 

[browncoat]

Chiming in here, too lazy to read 10 pages.....help a newB out: If this goes into law that would mean I can't do a FTF transfer with my buddy using the Mass Gun transfer portal? Everything goes through a dealer now? Thanks in advance..... aul:

Nothing has changed in MA re: transfers. MA has a 4 sales/year limit anyway, so it is hard to believe that the federal (currently very vague) restrictions would mean anything here.

 

[dennism]

So how does this ruling impact trusts? Do you have to send them your finger prints every 2 years as I read elsewhere?

I am a bit confused on that front. Is this ATF rule part of the executive order or separate? Should we make a new thread?

 

[Another_David]

Another relatively new “trust loophole” will also be closed where guns are acquired through a corporation or trust or some other legal entity. In 2000, there were fewer than 900 requests for these purchases; two years ago, the number was 90,000, according to Attorney General Loretta Lynch.[\quote]

This should be interesting. How will police dept., and security companies purchase firearms for their employees?

 

[blindndead]

So how does this ruling impact trusts? Do you have to send them your finger prints every 2 years as I read elsewhere?

Thats a good question.

 

[Bill Katt]

This should be interesting. How will police dept., and security companies purchase firearms for their employees?

With a simple "exception"....or is it exemption.

 

[atilla]

So how does this ruling impact trusts? Do you have to send them your finger prints every 2 years as I read elsewhere?

Thats a good question.

the ATF probably doesn't even ****ing know.

i'd love to see the shit reversed in the courts, sorry iron curtain dudes.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes we do. All FFL's banning together in MA would be a good start...
Zero Hour Arms

Fine as long as you gag and stuff the fat bastard Ted "The Rat" Oven in a deep dark hole someplace!

My Wife told me that he was on the news again last night pontificating for gun owners/dealers. Nothing but shit comes out of his lousy pie-hole and when he represents himself as president of the MA gun dealers association (defunct, but he never mentions that part of it) he only helps our enemies.

 

[atilla]

Fine as long as you gag and stuff the fat bastard Ted "The Rat" Oven in a deep dark hole someplace!

My Wife told me that he was on the news again last night pontificating for gun owners/dealers. Nothing but shit comes out of his lousy pie-hole and when he represents himself as president of the MA gun dealers association (defunct, but he never mentions that part of it) he only helps our enemies.

he's a piece of shit.

 

[Palladin]

much ado about nothing

 

[Mr Weebles]

Obama really screwed the pooch this time.

His new EOs really have no major impact, yet will fire up 2A supporters in an election year. What a dumbass.

He should have gone whole hog and tried to outlaw a bunch of shit. At least that could be counted as a "win" by the antis. Instead, they get nothing of note and will have to fight the backlash anyway.

 

[IvIax]

Once again, he achieves nothing.

 

[P-14]

Once again, he achieves nothing.

To our benefit, he has been impotent.

 

[Bob P]

Obama really screwed the pooch this time.

His new EOs really have no major impact, yet will fire up 2A supporters in an election year. What a dumbass.

He should have gone whole hog and tried to outlaw a bunch of shit. At least that could be counted as a "win" by the antis. Instead, they get nothing of note and will have to fight the backlash anyway.

This in spades.

 

[GlockJock]

To our benefit, he has been impotent.

If only his Dad had been, back in the day....

 

[IvIax]

To our benefit, he has been impotent.

stupidass is setting the bar of how useless a president could be.

 

[NewGuyRay]

Obama really screwed the pooch this time.

His new EOs really have no major impact, yet will fire up 2A supporters in an election year. What a dumbass.

He should have gone whole hog and tried to outlaw a bunch of shit. At least that could be counted as a "win" by the antis. Instead, they get nothing of note and will have to fight the backlash anyway.

Here's an excellent analysis on precisely this sentiment:

...
1) In order to make his actions appear meaningful, Obama is going to have to pretend that they represent serious change. If he does that, though, he’ll permit his opponents to say, “look, we just did big gun control by executive order, we have other things to do, and we’re not doing it again.” That matters. The Left makes great hay out of the “we never do anything” line, and its more effective advocates use our present inertia to justify the need for experimentation. Insofar as there is any, Obama has slowed the momentum for further gun-control. This is not how you win the argument.

2) By taking this route, Obama will help to entrench America’s gun culture — and for little in return. Ceteris paribus, the United States will play host to at least another 20 million guns by the end of December 2016 — many of them so-called “assault weapons.” In addition, the country will welcome another million or so concealed carriers, and another half-million or so NRA members. Every time the president talks about gun control, these numbers increase, and, in consequence, the president’s opponents are strengthened. Not only will this maneuver make it more likely that a Republican presidential candidate will make inroads with pro-gun voters — the ads write themselves: “you don’t want another anti-gun would-be King, do you?” — but it will likely damage the long-term prospects for change. By his own account, Obama wants to reduce, not increase, the number of guns in circulation. If history is anything to go by, this action will do precisely the opposite.
...

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/429235/obama-gun-control-executive-orders-mistake

 

[jhblaze1]

these aren't even real executive orders right, just executive "actions" which are essentially non binding and meaningless?

 

[Prepper]

these aren't even real executive orders right, just executive "actions" which are essentially non binding and meaningless?

I guess. But it is being reported everywhere as a devastating blow to gun owners. Hey I wonder if this can be to our advantage... Maybe the antis can be tricked into believing they closed the gun show loophole. That way we never have to hear that nonsense again and can merrily continue with our private sales.


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[Len-2A Training]

I guess. But it is being reported everywhere as a devastating blow to gun owners. Hey I wonder if this can be to our advantage... Maybe the antis can be tricked into believing they closed the gun show loophole. That way we never have to hear that nonsense again and can merrily continue with our private sales.


Sent via Tapatalk on my Android phone. Good news; Tapatalk sucks less than it used to.

I want some of what you are drinking!

Antis will anti forever.