The ABC affiliate in Raleigh did not make any mention of gun rights, etc. in their recent report - the reporter on the scene is a VT alum. There is a local community news site and the gun debate is raging on.
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One reportedly dead in Virginia Tech shooting (Update: Now 33)
- Thread starter blindndead
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I didn't realize the federal GFSZ had been reenacted after the Supreme Court decided U.S. v. Lopez. But from what you're saying, having a CCW negates this law? Are you sure? I'm pretty sure my college (a state institution) forbids the carrying of firearms, period.
I saw that two, hopefully it is not just a one time comment and they continue to say it. The only bad thing is it is not fox news' offical statement, it was one of their guests.
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1. The GFSZ zone law was indeed re-enacted but congress added a "we reallymean it" clause (something like "whereas guns impact interstate commerce...). The re-enacted version has been the subject of a SCOTUS decision.
2. The GFSZ law states that it is not a federal offense to possess or carry a gun in a SZ is you have a permit from the state that permits you to do this. It does not have anything to do with overriging state law.
3. MGL prohibits carry on one's person (MGL 269-10j) which is a subset of the more general definition of carry used elsewhere in MGL 269.
When???
The college is arranging for grief counseling
A "candlelight vigil" is scheduled for tonight
When in the hell are the people of this country going to get mad
and take back our lives?????!!!!!
I'm not a brave person, but I'll be damned if I'll stand there and allow myself to be executed without a fight.
Those poor people were totally helpless..how can a "thinking' person think that is right?
How did we get so stupid? How did we get so afraid?
What has happened to us?? Where does this end?
This is depressing.
The college is arranging for grief counseling
A "candlelight vigil" is scheduled for tonight
When in the hell are the people of this country going to get mad
and take back our lives?????!!!!!
I'm not a brave person, but I'll be damned if I'll stand there and allow myself to be executed without a fight.
Those poor people were totally helpless..how can a "thinking' person think that is right?
How did we get so stupid? How did we get so afraid?
What has happened to us?? Where does this end?
This is depressing.
I am surprised they would get away with bringing the Commerce Clause up at all..!
Seeing as I'm not in Mass., should I check Maine CCW laws to see if it mentions overriding the GSFZ act, or do all CCW licensing laws do it by default?
SemiAutoSam
Banned
We have been watching this unfold on the west coast as well.
From some of the reports we have seen The shooter was a Asian male with relationship problems.
I remember reading somewhere on Calguns.net that the student was in this country on a VISA or something to that effect.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1662901.ece
Students went crazy. It was chaos. Two leapt from window’Tim Reid and Tom Baldwin
The massacre began at 7.10am yesterday when a lone gunman entered a dormitory at Virginia Tech, the largest university in the state.
He killed two people, a man and a woman, on the fourth floor of the West Ambler Johnston Hall, one of the biggest halls of residence with sleeping quarters for 895 students. There was “mass chaos”, one undergraduate said — “lots of students running around, going crazy”.
At 7.15am the first emergency call was made. Police cars and ambulances rushed to the scene and armed teams fanned out around the hall, on the southwest side of the 2,600-acre campus, trying to find the gunman amid swirling snow.
Police and university authorities believed that the incident was “domestic” and was contained. They said later that there was reason to believe that the gunman had fled.
Related Links
Killer was free to strike again
‘I didn’t think there was any way I’d live’
Killers seek revenge to wipe away insult
By this time around 14,000 students and staff were on their way to the campus. The university sent e-mails to all its members but decided against shutting the campus. Charles Steger, the president, said: “We concluded that once they got to the classroom, that was the best place to lock them down.”
The e-mail had few details. It read: “A shooting incident occurred at West Ambler Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.
Police were interviewing away from the scene a “person of interest” held after the first shooting. But at 9.40am gunfire began again. Shots came from Norris Hall, an engineering building filled with classrooms. Jamal Albarghouti, a student, filmed the scene with his mobile phone, images that were broadcast on CNN before the full scale of the massacre was known. Armed police look left and right, startled, as shot after shot can be heard in the distance. The shooting went on for at least 40 seconds.
Initial reports put the death toll at one. Then Wendell Flinchum, Virginia Tech’s police chief, brought gasps at a 12.45pm news conference when he announced that at least 21 people had been killed.
Matt Maroney, a student, told Sky News that 43 people had been shot, adding that students had thrown desks at a door and a teacher had been shot in the arm. The gunman, he said, “had an ungodly amount of ammo on him. He was just dressed in a vest filled with clips and started firing away at classrooms”.
Some students broke limbs leaping from second-floor windows to escape. Police arriving at the scene of the second shooting found the doors barricaded from inside with chains. They broke through and followed gunshots to the second floor, but the killer, firing at least two 9mm semi-automatic pistols, died after shooting himself in the face.
Steven Ratley, 21, an architecture student, witnessed the denouement of the massacre as a group of armed police ran past him a little after at 9.45am close to Norris Hall. “I walked outside to get a cup of coffee and was told to get down on the ground by a number of police officers,” he told The Times. “They looked like they were chasing someone. A couple of seconds later I heard two gunshots fired. It’s crazy here right now. The hospitals are all full, there are ambulances, police cars and fire rescue trucks everywhere.”
The university has 26,000 students, many from Asia. Aimee Kanode, a first-year student, said that the first round of shooting occurred one floor above her room in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Her “resident assistant” knocked on her door at about 8am to tell the students not to leave their dormitory. “They had us under lockdown. They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again,” she said.
The first victim to be named was the man who died in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Ryan Clark was an officer in the university’s marching band, and was due to graduate this year.
There were suggestions last night that the gunman was a disgruntled boyfriend who wanted revenge on a man he thought was having an affair with his girlfriend.
Tricia Sangalang was in class when her professor heard about the shootings. She said: “There’s a lot of speculation that it is a student, I believe in his 20s, an Asian male student. That’s unconfirmed.
“Some people have said he was going after the guy his girlfriend was cheating on him with but that’s unconfirmed.”
Death in class
August 1, 1966 University of Texas, Austin; 31 killed
January 29, 1979 Cleveland Elementary School, San Diego; two men killed, eight children wounded
March 24, 1998 Westside Middle School, Jonesboro, Arkansas; five killed
April 20, 1999 Columbine High School; 13 killed
March 21, 2005 Red Lake High School, Minnesota; ten killed
Source: Times database
From some of the reports we have seen The shooter was a Asian male with relationship problems.
I remember reading somewhere on Calguns.net that the student was in this country on a VISA or something to that effect.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1662901.ece
Students went crazy. It was chaos. Two leapt from window’Tim Reid and Tom Baldwin
The massacre began at 7.10am yesterday when a lone gunman entered a dormitory at Virginia Tech, the largest university in the state.
He killed two people, a man and a woman, on the fourth floor of the West Ambler Johnston Hall, one of the biggest halls of residence with sleeping quarters for 895 students. There was “mass chaos”, one undergraduate said — “lots of students running around, going crazy”.
At 7.15am the first emergency call was made. Police cars and ambulances rushed to the scene and armed teams fanned out around the hall, on the southwest side of the 2,600-acre campus, trying to find the gunman amid swirling snow.
Police and university authorities believed that the incident was “domestic” and was contained. They said later that there was reason to believe that the gunman had fled.
Related Links
Killer was free to strike again
‘I didn’t think there was any way I’d live’
Killers seek revenge to wipe away insult
By this time around 14,000 students and staff were on their way to the campus. The university sent e-mails to all its members but decided against shutting the campus. Charles Steger, the president, said: “We concluded that once they got to the classroom, that was the best place to lock them down.”
The e-mail had few details. It read: “A shooting incident occurred at West Ambler Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating.” The message warned students to be cautious and contact police about anything suspicious.
Police were interviewing away from the scene a “person of interest” held after the first shooting. But at 9.40am gunfire began again. Shots came from Norris Hall, an engineering building filled with classrooms. Jamal Albarghouti, a student, filmed the scene with his mobile phone, images that were broadcast on CNN before the full scale of the massacre was known. Armed police look left and right, startled, as shot after shot can be heard in the distance. The shooting went on for at least 40 seconds.
Initial reports put the death toll at one. Then Wendell Flinchum, Virginia Tech’s police chief, brought gasps at a 12.45pm news conference when he announced that at least 21 people had been killed.
Matt Maroney, a student, told Sky News that 43 people had been shot, adding that students had thrown desks at a door and a teacher had been shot in the arm. The gunman, he said, “had an ungodly amount of ammo on him. He was just dressed in a vest filled with clips and started firing away at classrooms”.
Some students broke limbs leaping from second-floor windows to escape. Police arriving at the scene of the second shooting found the doors barricaded from inside with chains. They broke through and followed gunshots to the second floor, but the killer, firing at least two 9mm semi-automatic pistols, died after shooting himself in the face.
Steven Ratley, 21, an architecture student, witnessed the denouement of the massacre as a group of armed police ran past him a little after at 9.45am close to Norris Hall. “I walked outside to get a cup of coffee and was told to get down on the ground by a number of police officers,” he told The Times. “They looked like they were chasing someone. A couple of seconds later I heard two gunshots fired. It’s crazy here right now. The hospitals are all full, there are ambulances, police cars and fire rescue trucks everywhere.”
The university has 26,000 students, many from Asia. Aimee Kanode, a first-year student, said that the first round of shooting occurred one floor above her room in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Her “resident assistant” knocked on her door at about 8am to tell the students not to leave their dormitory. “They had us under lockdown. They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again,” she said.
The first victim to be named was the man who died in West Ambler Johnston Hall. Ryan Clark was an officer in the university’s marching band, and was due to graduate this year.
There were suggestions last night that the gunman was a disgruntled boyfriend who wanted revenge on a man he thought was having an affair with his girlfriend.
Tricia Sangalang was in class when her professor heard about the shootings. She said: “There’s a lot of speculation that it is a student, I believe in his 20s, an Asian male student. That’s unconfirmed.
“Some people have said he was going after the guy his girlfriend was cheating on him with but that’s unconfirmed.”
Death in class
August 1, 1966 University of Texas, Austin; 31 killed
January 29, 1979 Cleveland Elementary School, San Diego; two men killed, eight children wounded
March 24, 1998 Westside Middle School, Jonesboro, Arkansas; five killed
April 20, 1999 Columbine High School; 13 killed
March 21, 2005 Red Lake High School, Minnesota; ten killed
Source: Times database
My heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims. So very, very sad. I don't know what goes thru the minds of such evil, heartless people to do such things... I'm just dumbfounded.
Here's basically 2 reactions to addressing this problem I see going forward:
1) Allow all law abiding citizens to always arm and protect themselves
or
2) Ban all guns from humanity
I don't think anyone would agree that you can do #2 completely. But unfortunately I suspect that most people and politicians won't go for #1.
It never ceases to amaze me as to why in God's name ANYONE thinks that by making it illegal for law abiding citizens to carry in a school that bad guys will listen too.... defies logic completely.
Here's basically 2 reactions to addressing this problem I see going forward:
1) Allow all law abiding citizens to always arm and protect themselves
or
2) Ban all guns from humanity
I don't think anyone would agree that you can do #2 completely. But unfortunately I suspect that most people and politicians won't go for #1.
It never ceases to amaze me as to why in God's name ANYONE thinks that by making it illegal for law abiding citizens to carry in a school that bad guys will listen too.... defies logic completely.
GFSZ is overridden by the mere presence of a state issued
permit/license. You have to see if Maine law prohibits CCW
in a school... if it does, you're still screwed, regardless of the GFSZ exception.
GFSZ is mostly feel good window dressing anyways... all it really is used for as
a tool to harass gun shop owners who happen to be within (1000 foot?)
radius of a school or some such. That's about the only time you ever hear it
come up.
-Mike
Chances are if you are going to get "screwed" for carrying on a college
campus it will NEVER be via GFSZ, but some state law. I guess what
I'm getting at is GFSZ is irrelevant if you have a CCW... but this doesn't
entitle you to break whatever state laws may (and probably do) exist.
Of course then theres the non-judicial punishment, eg, getting kicked
out of school or whatnot.
-Mike
SemiAutoSam
Banned
This website was touted on LA (Los Angeles California) Radio KFI 640 AM as being the killers blog.
Then later it was also stated it was not the killers BLOG.
http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/
Then later it was also stated it was not the killers BLOG.
http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/
What a tragedy. So sad. And to think they actually denied the kids the ability to protect themselves. I hope something good comes of it. Believe it or not, it seems like some of the thinking in this country is turning. Maybe people are starting to wake up.
Anyhow,
Vote:Is Shooting Grounds for Gun Control?
Anyhow,
Vote:Is Shooting Grounds for Gun Control?
As more and more 'alleged' facts roll in... this is something that even the strictest forms of gun control can't alleviate.
33 dead and how many wounded? With (an alleged), 9mm handgun?
Already the anti-gunners are weeping about the demise of the AWB and the availability of "hi-capacity" magazines... as if it would have made any difference.
The facts are few and the real story is a long ways away, but the more and more I read/hear, I'm thinking that the shooter was into war gaming/Airsoft and took things to the next level.
33 dead and how many wounded? With (an alleged), 9mm handgun?
Already the anti-gunners are weeping about the demise of the AWB and the availability of "hi-capacity" magazines... as if it would have made any difference.
The facts are few and the real story is a long ways away, but the more and more I read/hear, I'm thinking that the shooter was into war gaming/Airsoft and took things to the next level.
"As for the gun or guns used, where did they come from and what kind of weapon were they? Not sporting arms, it would seem, but highly efficient killing weapons that should probably be in the hands only of law enforcement or military personnel in combat."
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...ls/articles/2007/04/16/at_a_loss_in_virginia/
Not that I would expect anything different from the globe.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...ls/articles/2007/04/16/at_a_loss_in_virginia/
Not that I would expect anything different from the globe.
Not that I don't believe you, but where can I verify that a CCW overrides the GFSZ? Is there any legal precedent that you can think of?
I'll try looking up the Maine laws today... I'm not too sure what I'll find.
That's interesting - I always thought 9mm would just bounce off of people and make them angry - and nothing less than a caliber starting with 4 and ending with 5 could ever be used to really hurt somebody?
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
I am not trying to make light of this situation - but I hear jackass comments like this rather frequently from people arguing the merits of one caliber over another - hopefully this incident will drum into people's heads a little better that any caliber can cause serious damage - and that even one person carrying a .22 revolver might have been able to put a stop to it if they had been allowed to have a gun on their person while at the school.
MaverickNH
NES Member
The Monday evening ABC News even flashed the 2002 Appalachian School of Law shootings in the list of mass school shootings, again with no mention of the intervention by a citizen with a firearm - this is the classic example given by John Lott of media bias against guns, and remains so it appears.
The ABC poll, with 52k votes in, shows a supermajority (69%) opposed to added gun-control in response to this shooting. But actions will, no doubt, be taken - mostly senseless and meaningless, as those are the easiest actions to take. http://abcnews.go.com/US/BeSeenBeHeard/popup?id=3046132
Following the 1996 "Port Arthur Massacre" in Australia, claiming a polled 90-95% support, AUS legislatures enacted a semi-auto long-gun ban and prohibited owning a firearm for self-defense purposes, among other restrictions. While some "scientific" publications show mass shootings to have dropped to zero since about 700k guns were turned in, the definition of mass shootings at 5 or more killed and dying within 1yr of being shot is a statistical anomaly - up until then, most "mass shootings" were 5 or less anyway, so the bias is obvious. http://press.psprings.co.uk/ip/December/365_ip13714.pdf
While another publication revealed that firearms homicide rates had not declined since the 1996 bans (http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...NDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT), the defense offerred by the defenders of a successful gun ban was 2-fold: 1) They dismissed the work as from authors who were from a biased organization supporting gun rights (of course, the fact that the publication was in a peer-reviewed and prestigious British journal was ignored) and 2) They argued that the laws were enacted to address mass shootings, not other shootings, as public panic was a key concern being addressed (while begging the question of why less than 5 shot at once is "OK", the "public panic" claim is merely a surrogate for public demands for action and the resultant knee-jerk response from politicians).
Fortunately, the ABC poll suggests we are not in the final stages of pacification, as were AUS, UK, NZ, and willing to lie down at the feet of criminals.
But on that point, in an interview of what was purportedly the sole survivor in a room full of murdered students, the student said they all layed upon the floor, and he heard the shooter methodically going around the room shooting the prone victims.
While it's too soon to know what really happened, it would seem that the 9-11 Flight 93 "Fight Back" mentality has not permeated our society...
The ABC poll, with 52k votes in, shows a supermajority (69%) opposed to added gun-control in response to this shooting. But actions will, no doubt, be taken - mostly senseless and meaningless, as those are the easiest actions to take. http://abcnews.go.com/US/BeSeenBeHeard/popup?id=3046132
Following the 1996 "Port Arthur Massacre" in Australia, claiming a polled 90-95% support, AUS legislatures enacted a semi-auto long-gun ban and prohibited owning a firearm for self-defense purposes, among other restrictions. While some "scientific" publications show mass shootings to have dropped to zero since about 700k guns were turned in, the definition of mass shootings at 5 or more killed and dying within 1yr of being shot is a statistical anomaly - up until then, most "mass shootings" were 5 or less anyway, so the bias is obvious. http://press.psprings.co.uk/ip/December/365_ip13714.pdf
While another publication revealed that firearms homicide rates had not declined since the 1996 bans (http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/c...NDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT), the defense offerred by the defenders of a successful gun ban was 2-fold: 1) They dismissed the work as from authors who were from a biased organization supporting gun rights (of course, the fact that the publication was in a peer-reviewed and prestigious British journal was ignored) and 2) They argued that the laws were enacted to address mass shootings, not other shootings, as public panic was a key concern being addressed (while begging the question of why less than 5 shot at once is "OK", the "public panic" claim is merely a surrogate for public demands for action and the resultant knee-jerk response from politicians).
Fortunately, the ABC poll suggests we are not in the final stages of pacification, as were AUS, UK, NZ, and willing to lie down at the feet of criminals.
But on that point, in an interview of what was purportedly the sole survivor in a room full of murdered students, the student said they all layed upon the floor, and he heard the shooter methodically going around the room shooting the prone victims.
While it's too soon to know what really happened, it would seem that the 9-11 Flight 93 "Fight Back" mentality has not permeated our society...
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I don't know the history or the rationale given, but I've always assumed that the thinking behind barring guns from colleges is that having casual access to guns by the students makes it more tempting for a dispute to boil over into a shooting. Especially for college students or young people who are immature.
i went to highschool with one of the kids who was shot and killed
just found out...he graduated with my sister a few years behind me
his sister was in my graduating class
just found out...he graduated with my sister a few years behind me
his sister was in my graduating class
Chris
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Bloodhound, sorry to hear it hit so close to home.
A few things I've picked up, might be rumor, but it was broadcast:
2 guns, a 9mm and a .22. Serial numbers were filed off
19 year old Asian male who was both a student and a dorm resident
Looking more and more like a pre-meditated killing spree by a criminal who would have not been stopped by any laws.
A few things I've picked up, might be rumor, but it was broadcast:
2 guns, a 9mm and a .22. Serial numbers were filed off
19 year old Asian male who was both a student and a dorm resident
Looking more and more like a pre-meditated killing spree by a criminal who would have not been stopped by any laws.
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Blood Hound, sorry to hear that!
Very sad day for many too many out there.
Regrettably, the fallout of this will be even sadder for all those in the US and make it easier still for more such occurences.
Very sad day for many too many out there.
Regrettably, the fallout of this will be even sadder for all those in the US and make it easier still for more such occurences.
Chris
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Oh man. It seems the press wants to beat up the authorities over the fact the campus wasn't locked down after the first two people were shot.
I can just see the fall out from this. Virginia Tech is about the size of Cambridge in area. So.... If there is a shooting in the Ruggles T station, they have to assume it is a rampage act and shut down all of Boston right?
Fox is now reporting that they are looking at an alien from China or Korea.
I can just see the fall out from this. Virginia Tech is about the size of Cambridge in area. So.... If there is a shooting in the Ruggles T station, they have to assume it is a rampage act and shut down all of Boston right?
Fox is now reporting that they are looking at an alien from China or Korea.
Chris
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Nah, even a .25 making muzzle contact can cause major trauma due to the pressure inside the head. If you search the web, you can find various wound images. I'll not link any of them here.
This didn't take long.....
This didn't take long.....
Last edited:
Chris
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9:20 Press Conference:
Some families still to be notified.
All Classes Canceled for the week.
Norris Hall closed for the semester (location of most fatalities)
Lots of counciling being provided.
ID Cho Seung-Hui as shooter VT student Resident Alien on student visa. Enrolled as undergrad. Living on Campus
9mm and .22 recovered
Confirmed that same gun used in both locations
A friend of the female shot in the dorm is being detained for questioning
Some families still to be notified.
All Classes Canceled for the week.
Norris Hall closed for the semester (location of most fatalities)
Lots of counciling being provided.
ID Cho Seung-Hui as shooter VT student Resident Alien on student visa. Enrolled as undergrad. Living on Campus
9mm and .22 recovered
Confirmed that same gun used in both locations
A friend of the female shot in the dorm is being detained for questioning
Last edited:
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