MaverickNH
NES Member
Only such an event will open our eyes..
Have a read of a review of "Terror at Beslan" http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/12/192159.php
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One reportedly dead in Virginia Tech shooting (Update: Now 33)
- Thread starter blindndead
- Start date
Only such an event will open our eyes..
Have a read of a review of "Terror at Beslan" http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/07/12/192159.php
I actually heard on the news last night that it being a terrorist attack:
"We believe can be ruled out"
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Chris
NES Member
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- May 24, 2005
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Saying he came here as a child and that his family has been living here for a while now. Wasn't just for school.
I feel sorry for his parents and what they might go through now.
Matty, I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend.
Garys
NES Member
I don't think BGs need to practice. I think that we'll find that in this case, and similar ones, the BGs knew what the laws were and knew that the likelihood of armed resistance was very low.
It's the same in any "gun free" city, state, or nation. Predators prefer easy prey, they'll avoid targets that are likely to fight back.
Think of all of the mass killings that would have turned out different is just one citizen had been armed. Kileen, Columbine, Edgewater Tech., and dozens of others.
Gary
I would like to think that when the time came I would do what it takes to but honestly, an unarmed bunch of kids in classrooms rushing some lunatic with a gun? I dont know...
And by no means an excuse because I am sure that they could/should have done a LOT more, but after having spent 4 years at Umass - Amherst (26000 students) I know first hand that locking down a campus of that size in any expedient fashion is virutally impossible...just my opinion.
JimConway
Instructor
Just one man
Have any of you given any thought about what could have been if just one man, other than the shooter, had a gun and knew how to use it effectively?
I know what my actions would have been. Do you? I have spoken with may of you and I know that there is a wide range of opinion about how other people would respond. Some have said that they would only consider defending themselves or their loved ones. Others were not sure. Some have commented on the monsterous legal casts. Think about it. If you could have saved some or all of these victims, what would you do?
In a recent post some one opined that he did not need any training, because he did not go to places where he would need it. I guess that he had better add colleges campuses to the list of places not to go.
My view of "places not to go" is somewhat different. If I think that I need a gun because of some place that I want to go to, them I simply do not go there.
Have any of you given any thought about what could have been if just one man, other than the shooter, had a gun and knew how to use it effectively?
I know what my actions would have been. Do you? I have spoken with may of you and I know that there is a wide range of opinion about how other people would respond. Some have said that they would only consider defending themselves or their loved ones. Others were not sure. Some have commented on the monsterous legal casts. Think about it. If you could have saved some or all of these victims, what would you do?
In a recent post some one opined that he did not need any training, because he did not go to places where he would need it. I guess that he had better add colleges campuses to the list of places not to go.
My view of "places not to go" is somewhat different. If I think that I need a gun because of some place that I want to go to, them I simply do not go there.
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SemiAutoSam
Banned
CNN has posted the shooters pic on their front page.
http://www.cnn.com/
Police: Virginia Tech shooter an English major, 23
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html
BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- The gunman who killed 30 people at Virginia Tech's Norris Hall before turning the gun on himself was student Cho Seung-hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.
University officials said they were still trying to determine whether Cho was responsible for an earlier shooting at a dormitory that left two dead.
However, Flinchum said ballistics tests show that one of the two guns recovered at Norris Hall was used at Norris and at the dorm, both located on the 26,000-student campus. (Watch police disclose new information about the shooter )
Authorities are still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in planning or executing Monday's rampage, Col. Steven Flaherty of the Virginia State Police said.
"It certainly is reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places, but we don't have the evidence to take us there at this particular point in time," Flaherty said.
Cho, a 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien, lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.
Cho was a loner and authorities are having a hard time finding information about him, said Harry Hincker, associate vice president for university relations.
A department of Homeland Security official said Cho came to the United States in 1992, through Detroit, Michigan. He had lawful permanent residence, via his parents, and renewed his green card in October 2003, the official said.
His residence was listed as Centreville, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C.
The university and police are still in the process of releasing the names of the 32 people killed in Monday's shootings. (Watch how some are asking why warnings weren't issued sooner )
"What went on during that incident certainly caused tremendous chaos and panic in Norris Hall," Flaherty said, describing how victims were found in four classrooms and in the stairwell of the school's engineering science and mechanics building.
A doctor at a Blacksburg hospital described the injuries he saw Monday as "amazing" and the shooter as "brutal."
"There wasn't a shooting victim that didn't have less than three bullet wounds in them," said Dr. Joseph Cacioppo of Montgomery Regional Hospital.
Even among the less serious injuries, Cacioppo said, "we saw one patient that had a bullet wound to the wrist, one to the elbow and one to the thigh. We had another one with a bullet wound to the abdomen, one to the chest and one to the head."
A source familiar with the investigation said the weapons found at Norris were a Walther .22-caliber semi-automatic and a 9 mm Glock -- both with the serial numbers filed off. (Watch how quickly these guns can be fired, reloaded )
Details surface
The day's first shooting, at the West Ambler Johnston dormitory, which houses 895 students, occurred about 7:15 a.m.
At the time of the shootings at Norris Hall, more than two hours later, police were investigating a "person of interest" in the dormitory shootings, Flinchum said Monday.
During the Tuesday news conference, Flinchum said the person of interest was an acquaintance of a woman killed at the dorm.
Steger told reporters Monday that when police responded to Norris Hall they found the front doors chained shut and the gunfire had stopped by the time they reached the second floor.
Authorities say they initially believed the dorm shooting was an "isolated incident" and were still investigating it when the slaughter occurred at Norris Hall. (Officials thought shooter had fled)
The gunman killed 31 people, including himself, and wounded 15 in Norris Hall classrooms.
Steger: Police thought dorm shooting was isolated
Steger on Tuesday defended the university response to the dorm shooting, saying police believed it to be "a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide" that was contained to one dorm room. (Watch the police chief explain where bodies were found )
Police cordoned off the dorm and all residents were told about the shooting as police looked for witnesses, Steger said.
"I don't think anyone could have predicted that another event was going to take place two hours later," Steger said, adding that it would've been difficult to warn every student because most were off campus at the time. (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )
The gunman was dressed "almost like a Boy Scout" and wore a black ammunition vest, said a student who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor.
"He just stepped within five feet of the door and just started firing," said Erin Sheehan. "He seemed very thorough about it, getting almost everyone down, I pretended to be dead." (Watch student describe surviving by playing dead )
The shooter, who remained quiet throughout the rampage, came back 30 seconds after the first round of gunfire and Sheehan and her classmates tried to barricade the door with their bodies, she said.
After the shooter couldn't get in, he began firing through the door, Sheehan said. Of the 25 students in her German class, Sheehan was one of four able to walk out on her own when police arrived. (Watch students react to shooting )
Victims' identities being released
Courtney Dalton, an 18-year-old student who worked at West End Dining Hall, said a friend named Ryan Clark was one of the two dormitory victims.
Clark, a resident assistant at West Ambler Johnston Hall, had once worked at the cafeteria serving pizza. Sobbing, she described Clark "a happy person."
As of early Tuesday, the identities of four other victims had been released: professor G.V. Loganathan, professor Liviu Librescu, student Ross Alameddine of Saugus, Massachusetts, and student Matthew La Porte of Dumont, New Jersey. (Full story)
The university has scheduled a convocation for 2 p.m. ET Tuesday. President Bush and the first lady are scheduled to attend.
Classes have been canceled for the rest of the week, and Norris Hall will be closed for the remainder of the semester, Steger said. Student Emily Alderman said students were sending out instant messages urging each other to wear their Virginia Tech Hokie gear in a sign of unity.
There have been two bomb threats at the university this month, the latest of which came Friday. Flinchum said Tuesday they were unrelated to the shootings. (Watch gunfire on the campus )
Last August, the first day of class was cut short at Virginia Tech by a manhunt for an escaped prisoner accused of killing a Blacksburg hospital security guard and a sheriff's deputy.
Before Monday, the deadliest mass shooting in the United States occurred in 1991, when George Hennard drove a pickup truck into a Killeen, Texas, cafeteria and fatally shot 23 people, before shooting and killing himself.
http://www.cnn.com/
Police: Virginia Tech shooter an English major, 23
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html
BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- The gunman who killed 30 people at Virginia Tech's Norris Hall before turning the gun on himself was student Cho Seung-hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.
University officials said they were still trying to determine whether Cho was responsible for an earlier shooting at a dormitory that left two dead.
However, Flinchum said ballistics tests show that one of the two guns recovered at Norris Hall was used at Norris and at the dorm, both located on the 26,000-student campus. (Watch police disclose new information about the shooter )
Authorities are still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in planning or executing Monday's rampage, Col. Steven Flaherty of the Virginia State Police said.
"It certainly is reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places, but we don't have the evidence to take us there at this particular point in time," Flaherty said.
Cho, a 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien, lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.
Cho was a loner and authorities are having a hard time finding information about him, said Harry Hincker, associate vice president for university relations.
A department of Homeland Security official said Cho came to the United States in 1992, through Detroit, Michigan. He had lawful permanent residence, via his parents, and renewed his green card in October 2003, the official said.
His residence was listed as Centreville, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C.
The university and police are still in the process of releasing the names of the 32 people killed in Monday's shootings. (Watch how some are asking why warnings weren't issued sooner )
"What went on during that incident certainly caused tremendous chaos and panic in Norris Hall," Flaherty said, describing how victims were found in four classrooms and in the stairwell of the school's engineering science and mechanics building.
A doctor at a Blacksburg hospital described the injuries he saw Monday as "amazing" and the shooter as "brutal."
"There wasn't a shooting victim that didn't have less than three bullet wounds in them," said Dr. Joseph Cacioppo of Montgomery Regional Hospital.
Even among the less serious injuries, Cacioppo said, "we saw one patient that had a bullet wound to the wrist, one to the elbow and one to the thigh. We had another one with a bullet wound to the abdomen, one to the chest and one to the head."
A source familiar with the investigation said the weapons found at Norris were a Walther .22-caliber semi-automatic and a 9 mm Glock -- both with the serial numbers filed off. (Watch how quickly these guns can be fired, reloaded )
Details surface
The day's first shooting, at the West Ambler Johnston dormitory, which houses 895 students, occurred about 7:15 a.m.
At the time of the shootings at Norris Hall, more than two hours later, police were investigating a "person of interest" in the dormitory shootings, Flinchum said Monday.
During the Tuesday news conference, Flinchum said the person of interest was an acquaintance of a woman killed at the dorm.
Steger told reporters Monday that when police responded to Norris Hall they found the front doors chained shut and the gunfire had stopped by the time they reached the second floor.
Authorities say they initially believed the dorm shooting was an "isolated incident" and were still investigating it when the slaughter occurred at Norris Hall. (Officials thought shooter had fled)
The gunman killed 31 people, including himself, and wounded 15 in Norris Hall classrooms.
Steger: Police thought dorm shooting was isolated
Steger on Tuesday defended the university response to the dorm shooting, saying police believed it to be "a domestic fight, perhaps a murder-suicide" that was contained to one dorm room. (Watch the police chief explain where bodies were found )
Police cordoned off the dorm and all residents were told about the shooting as police looked for witnesses, Steger said.
"I don't think anyone could have predicted that another event was going to take place two hours later," Steger said, adding that it would've been difficult to warn every student because most were off campus at the time. (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )
The gunman was dressed "almost like a Boy Scout" and wore a black ammunition vest, said a student who survived by pretending to lie dead on a classroom floor.
"He just stepped within five feet of the door and just started firing," said Erin Sheehan. "He seemed very thorough about it, getting almost everyone down, I pretended to be dead." (Watch student describe surviving by playing dead )
The shooter, who remained quiet throughout the rampage, came back 30 seconds after the first round of gunfire and Sheehan and her classmates tried to barricade the door with their bodies, she said.
After the shooter couldn't get in, he began firing through the door, Sheehan said. Of the 25 students in her German class, Sheehan was one of four able to walk out on her own when police arrived. (Watch students react to shooting )
Victims' identities being released
Courtney Dalton, an 18-year-old student who worked at West End Dining Hall, said a friend named Ryan Clark was one of the two dormitory victims.
Clark, a resident assistant at West Ambler Johnston Hall, had once worked at the cafeteria serving pizza. Sobbing, she described Clark "a happy person."
As of early Tuesday, the identities of four other victims had been released: professor G.V. Loganathan, professor Liviu Librescu, student Ross Alameddine of Saugus, Massachusetts, and student Matthew La Porte of Dumont, New Jersey. (Full story)
The university has scheduled a convocation for 2 p.m. ET Tuesday. President Bush and the first lady are scheduled to attend.
Classes have been canceled for the rest of the week, and Norris Hall will be closed for the remainder of the semester, Steger said. Student Emily Alderman said students were sending out instant messages urging each other to wear their Virginia Tech Hokie gear in a sign of unity.
There have been two bomb threats at the university this month, the latest of which came Friday. Flinchum said Tuesday they were unrelated to the shootings. (Watch gunfire on the campus )
Last August, the first day of class was cut short at Virginia Tech by a manhunt for an escaped prisoner accused of killing a Blacksburg hospital security guard and a sheriff's deputy.
Before Monday, the deadliest mass shooting in the United States occurred in 1991, when George Hennard drove a pickup truck into a Killeen, Texas, cafeteria and fatally shot 23 people, before shooting and killing himself.
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I'm well aware of Beslan, and also the Moscow Opera House. I strongly suspect that terrorists understand the time it takes for a SWAT team to assemble on site. And even once they get there, does anyone think that a local SWAT team (or even the State Police team) could handle such an event.
How many hours would it take HRT and/or a SOCOM team to arrive here? By that time, it would be all over.
Chris
NES Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 13,470
- Likes
- 8,374
Yup.
Of course, when I was in college, I was really just a small bore shooter with little or no pistol experience mainly due to my age. At that time, I doubt I had any of the skills for defense that I have today. I had only just started Kung-Fu and was still several years away from taking my first Gunsite course.
Biggest error we make with our youth is not giving them the tools to survive when mommy and daddy are not there to defend them. Instincts want us to have our child run or hide and save themselves. But reality is that this has shown to be a very fatal response to the type of attack that is most likely to befall them.
But you don't even need firearms to have possibly stopped this attack.
Just imagine the effectiveness a single textbook launched at the head of the shooter followed by a body tackle might have had. Especially by those in the front row of the class. A few seconds of distraction on the part of the shooter would be all you need.
It is so easy to play Monday Quarterback. But I fail to see why we take so much time teaching kids to be safe in life, but fail to provide the fighting skills that can possibly save them in the end.
Columbine spurred a trend in active shooter training for LEOs. One of the major mistakes of Columbine was that they waited for SWAT and other specialized teams to respond. With the active shooter training, that way of thinking is gone. The LEOs first on scene will not wait.
Fox news was just saying that he bought the guns recently and they (police) have receipts. The .22 was bought about a month ago and the Glock he just got this past week. I hope this is not true b/c you know how the antis will use it.
Jon:
I'm aware of the trend towards active shooter training. That said, it isn't clear to me 1) how widespread that training is and 2) even with the training whether the first responding police officers will be able to effectively deal with the situation. From what I've read and seen, the average level of marksmanship among police officers is poor. Yes, there are quite a few exceptions.
But it is my impression that there are still way too many police officers who only fire their guns once or twice a year while qualifying. I have my doubts as to how effective such officers would be in such a situation.
So I hope you aren't insulted that I remain skeptical that most agencies could handle such a situation effectively.
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Lets see if I have the facts straight...
Va has a one gun a month law to stem gun related crime =
He followed the law and bought 1 gun a month. Did this stop this heinous crime from happening? Nope.
VT does not allow firearms on campus =
Did this stop Mr. Crazy from bringing guns on campus? Answer again is No
Laws on books against murder/assault =
Did this stop Mr. Crazy from killing 30+ ppl and injuring others? No again.
So, can someone tell me how more restrictions/laws is going to stop some crazy lunatic from doing this in the future?
Allow students to CCW on campus = Well with this plan of action, you at least give the students/victims an option to defend themselves and others. These poor victims didnt even have an option other than to run or jump out of windows.
We cannot prevent crazy non-law abiding ppl from doing whatever evil they are intent on doing, the will always find a way.
what we can do is allow others to take action and prevent and minimize the damage.
Va has a one gun a month law to stem gun related crime =
He followed the law and bought 1 gun a month. Did this stop this heinous crime from happening? Nope.
VT does not allow firearms on campus =
Did this stop Mr. Crazy from bringing guns on campus? Answer again is No
Laws on books against murder/assault =
Did this stop Mr. Crazy from killing 30+ ppl and injuring others? No again.
So, can someone tell me how more restrictions/laws is going to stop some crazy lunatic from doing this in the future?
Allow students to CCW on campus = Well with this plan of action, you at least give the students/victims an option to defend themselves and others. These poor victims didnt even have an option other than to run or jump out of windows.
We cannot prevent crazy non-law abiding ppl from doing whatever evil they are intent on doing, the will always find a way.
what we can do is allow others to take action and prevent and minimize the damage.
![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
They would be better prepared than the kids and their pencils. It's not rocket science. You go and shoot the homicidal maniac. The only credential that matters is that you can sneak up on someone that is now deaf from shooting his gun inside a building and cap him. Training certificates mean nothing. Action is what matters, even if it is not government acronym agency approved.
Sheesh!
I got this email from a buddy in Australia (don't know where he got it from) a few minutes ago; it's a pro-gun banner criticizing the college administration:
Not saying I agree with it one way or the other, but it sure didn't take long to make the rounds.![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
Not saying I agree with it one way or the other, but it sure didn't take long to make the rounds.
Agreed, at least the police have guns. However, their guns won't do them much good if they can't hit what they are shooting at.
J
Jose
How does the fact that he was legally able to buy the guns not look good for us?
It makes our case that no amount of laws or bans would have made a damn bit of difference. The only thing that would have made a difference was resistance, particularly armed resistance.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Because you KNOW that the antis will use it as evidence that no one can be trusted with guns - that even the law-abiding can "snap". That's why it's not good.
thanx guys...finding that out before going to work today was a gut check for me...i dont know how i'll be received if i go to the funeral/wake...most of my former classmates know i'm into guns...most of them leading sheltered private school lives didnt understand...i dont think this situation will help
Marksmanship skills are fairly irrelevant in the scenario. They would most likely deter him from methodically murdering people, and turn his attention to the threat once they shoot at him. They don't need to be the best shots in the world.
B
I never said they had to be Jerry Miculek. But I disagree that marksmanship is irrelevant in such a situation.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Has anyone seen this?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,477686,00.html
April 17, 2007 Digg Stumble Upon Reddit Facebook Del.icio.us Fark Yahoo Newsvine Google Font:
EUROPEAN PRESS REACTIONS
Blaming Charlton Heston
With a view to Monday's deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, European newspapers are blaming the lack of gun control measures in the United States and implying that Charlton Heston is indirectly responsible for the scope of the killings.
AP
In America, "buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license."
Across the continent on Tuesday, European media rubber-neck at Monday's massacre in the United States. Most seem to agree about one thing: The shooting at Virginia Tech is the result of America's woeful lack of serious gun control laws. In the strongest editorialized image of the day, German cable news broadcaster NTV flashed an image of the former head of the National Rifle Association, the US gun lobby: In other words, blame rifle-wielding Charlton Heston for the 33 dead.
Papers reserve their sharpest criticism for the 2004 expiration of a 10-year ban on semi-automatic weapons under the then Republican-controlled Congress. Others comment on the pro-gun lobbying activities of Heston's NRA. Some papers also draw analogies between school shootings and Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers.
British daily The Independent writes:
"The passionate feelings of the gun lobby may be traced to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution, enshrining 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms'. Although the provision stems from the times when 'well regulated militias' were deemed necessary to protect against a British attempt to regain the lost colonies, it is the default position of any argument against greater gun control here."
"As such, it has trumped every other consideration, not least the fact that on any given day about 80 people are killed by firearms, the vast majority by murder or suicide. Gun violence may cost $2.3 billion each year in medical expenses, but it is a price, gun supporters believe, that is worth paying to protect a fundamental freedom ..."
"There is no sign of attitudes hardening. Despite the opposition of every police force in the land, Congress in 2004 allowed to lapse a 10-year federal ban on semi-automatic assault weapons, a particular favorite of violent criminals. The reaction was not exactly deafening. Even amid yesterday's shock, the initial calls were for stricter security measures on campuses -- not serious moves to reduce gun ownership."
The Times of London writes:
"The trauma of the death of the students at Virginia Tech that will spread across the university and the whole country will be magnified by the feelings of so many people who feel that they should have been able to prevent it."
"Doubtless there will be a call to review the availability of firearms. The National Rifle Association's (NRA) response is predictable too. They will point out that events such as this are not carried out by a rifle-wielding member of a weekend militia. There is no doubt that access to rapid-action shotguns makes these events even more destructive but as we have seen with suicide bombers, who are closer to spree killers than is often realized, if a person really wants to take their own life and kill others in doing so it is exceptionally difficult to prevent it."
French daily Le Monde writes:
"The shooting at Virginia Tech ... is a dramatic episode of school violence that fits into a long series of such episodes, a series topped by the drama at Columbine, the school attacked by two adolescents in 1999 ..."
"If Columbine left such a strong impression, that was because it was one of the first dramas of school violence that received broad coverage in the media. Americans were informed of what was happening in real time, via TV and the radio. The students called their families or CNN even as the killers were still roaming the corridors of the schools. ..."
"This new tragedy presents a new opportunity for American public opinion to interrogate itself about a society which, as one of the students who survived Columbine said at the time, is very much responsible for what has happened."
French conservative daily Le Figaro writes:
"It was all too easy easy for the elected representatives of the United States, from the White House to the Congress, to express their sadness yesterday; America's problem with fire-arms represents a political issue for which they share responsibility. Here is a country that represents the vanguard of development and democracy while it is legal to carry a gun in 45 of 50 states, as long as the gun is not loaded. ... At the end of 2004, the Republican-controlled Congress allowed a law to expire that prohibited the sale of semi-automatic and military weapons. Thereafter, legal changes were made to protect the producers and vendors of fire-arms from being held responsible for the actions of gun owners."
"Contrary to what one would imagine, this backward stance is not something left over from the Wild West. It goes back to the creation of the United States and the War of Independence against the English. ... While most states have issued laws designed to control the sale of arms, the NRA ensures they remain inefficient or are not applied. Strongly linked to the conservative fringe of the Republican Party, the NRA spent $400,000 a day to prevent the election of the Democratic candidate John Kerry during the 2004 presidential elections ..."
"Yesterday's massacre will surely revive the debate in the United States, but within the federal system, the question is ultimately settled by each individual state. Going back on the lapsing of the law issued by Washington could provide an opportunity for the Supreme Court to take a stance on the issue for the first time since 1939."
Italian daily Il Corriere della Sera writes:
"Shocked psychologists and sociologists ask themselves how gun violence is to be explained. Some speak of the repressed violence of a country that goes back to generations of pioneers habituated to achieve justice on their own and which is forced to face the powerful tensions within a multiracial society. Others criticize the spread of violent video games (which are, however, a phenomenon that has only emerged in recent years). In any case, gun violence is becoming a common phenomenon in the United States, one that is no longer surprising. In major cities such as New York, the extension of surveillance measures, a tough approach to crime and measures to rebuild the urban fabric have led to a drop in crime and especially in the number of homicides. But in suburban areas and smaller cities, episodes of 'ordinary violence' are on the rise. In the poorest neighborhoods, people are getting used to the use of fire-arms -- a phenomenon that is linked to the growing tendency among many young people to resort to violence to settle even minor disputes and to the ease with which weapons can be acquired."
Italian daily Il Messaggero writes:
"The bloodbath on the university campus is the work of a suicide killer -- an American suicide killer who, differently from Muslim killers, did not act out of religious motives but was driven instead by the unrest affecting broad layers of US society. America is a nation that has for some years been in danger of becoming more and more unloved in the world, especially in the poorest countries. During the period following World War II, America was seen as the guardian of democracy and was equated with the defense of liberty; today, America is a superpower that begins wars and lives with the constant necessity of having to defend itself against the enemy -- whether this enemy be called Islam or whether it bears the face of the neighbor who has done you wrong."
Spanish daily El Pais writes:
"The president of Virginia Tech called it a tragedy of monumental proportions. But similar comments could already be heard following previous tragedies of this kind. The shooting spree at the Columbine high school in Colorado, for instance, revived the debate on the necessity of better controlling access to weapons. This led to some laws being toughened and security at schools being improved. But the measures are decided by the individual states and are constantly side-stepped by means of an exaggerated interpretation of the US constitution."
German daily Bild writes:
"Now we will probably begin discussing the overly lax gun laws in the United States. There, buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license. And a new ban on violent games and killer videos will also be put back on the agenda. But in the end, nothing is likely to happen. And the next killer already lives somewhere among us. But we have little reason to point an accusing finger at the Americans. Despite strict gun legislation, we (in Germany) have experienced the school shootings in Erfurt and Emsdetten. We have to consider the problems in our society. And we have to take care of our fellow humans."
-- Max Henninger, 12:30 p.m. CET
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,477686,00.html
April 17, 2007 Digg Stumble Upon Reddit Facebook Del.icio.us Fark Yahoo Newsvine Google Font:
EUROPEAN PRESS REACTIONS
Blaming Charlton Heston
With a view to Monday's deadly shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, European newspapers are blaming the lack of gun control measures in the United States and implying that Charlton Heston is indirectly responsible for the scope of the killings.
AP
In America, "buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license."
Across the continent on Tuesday, European media rubber-neck at Monday's massacre in the United States. Most seem to agree about one thing: The shooting at Virginia Tech is the result of America's woeful lack of serious gun control laws. In the strongest editorialized image of the day, German cable news broadcaster NTV flashed an image of the former head of the National Rifle Association, the US gun lobby: In other words, blame rifle-wielding Charlton Heston for the 33 dead.
Papers reserve their sharpest criticism for the 2004 expiration of a 10-year ban on semi-automatic weapons under the then Republican-controlled Congress. Others comment on the pro-gun lobbying activities of Heston's NRA. Some papers also draw analogies between school shootings and Muslim fundamentalist suicide bombers.
British daily The Independent writes:
"The passionate feelings of the gun lobby may be traced to the Second Amendment of the US Constitution, enshrining 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms'. Although the provision stems from the times when 'well regulated militias' were deemed necessary to protect against a British attempt to regain the lost colonies, it is the default position of any argument against greater gun control here."
"As such, it has trumped every other consideration, not least the fact that on any given day about 80 people are killed by firearms, the vast majority by murder or suicide. Gun violence may cost $2.3 billion each year in medical expenses, but it is a price, gun supporters believe, that is worth paying to protect a fundamental freedom ..."
"There is no sign of attitudes hardening. Despite the opposition of every police force in the land, Congress in 2004 allowed to lapse a 10-year federal ban on semi-automatic assault weapons, a particular favorite of violent criminals. The reaction was not exactly deafening. Even amid yesterday's shock, the initial calls were for stricter security measures on campuses -- not serious moves to reduce gun ownership."
The Times of London writes:
"The trauma of the death of the students at Virginia Tech that will spread across the university and the whole country will be magnified by the feelings of so many people who feel that they should have been able to prevent it."
"Doubtless there will be a call to review the availability of firearms. The National Rifle Association's (NRA) response is predictable too. They will point out that events such as this are not carried out by a rifle-wielding member of a weekend militia. There is no doubt that access to rapid-action shotguns makes these events even more destructive but as we have seen with suicide bombers, who are closer to spree killers than is often realized, if a person really wants to take their own life and kill others in doing so it is exceptionally difficult to prevent it."
French daily Le Monde writes:
"The shooting at Virginia Tech ... is a dramatic episode of school violence that fits into a long series of such episodes, a series topped by the drama at Columbine, the school attacked by two adolescents in 1999 ..."
"If Columbine left such a strong impression, that was because it was one of the first dramas of school violence that received broad coverage in the media. Americans were informed of what was happening in real time, via TV and the radio. The students called their families or CNN even as the killers were still roaming the corridors of the schools. ..."
"This new tragedy presents a new opportunity for American public opinion to interrogate itself about a society which, as one of the students who survived Columbine said at the time, is very much responsible for what has happened."
French conservative daily Le Figaro writes:
"It was all too easy easy for the elected representatives of the United States, from the White House to the Congress, to express their sadness yesterday; America's problem with fire-arms represents a political issue for which they share responsibility. Here is a country that represents the vanguard of development and democracy while it is legal to carry a gun in 45 of 50 states, as long as the gun is not loaded. ... At the end of 2004, the Republican-controlled Congress allowed a law to expire that prohibited the sale of semi-automatic and military weapons. Thereafter, legal changes were made to protect the producers and vendors of fire-arms from being held responsible for the actions of gun owners."
"Contrary to what one would imagine, this backward stance is not something left over from the Wild West. It goes back to the creation of the United States and the War of Independence against the English. ... While most states have issued laws designed to control the sale of arms, the NRA ensures they remain inefficient or are not applied. Strongly linked to the conservative fringe of the Republican Party, the NRA spent $400,000 a day to prevent the election of the Democratic candidate John Kerry during the 2004 presidential elections ..."
"Yesterday's massacre will surely revive the debate in the United States, but within the federal system, the question is ultimately settled by each individual state. Going back on the lapsing of the law issued by Washington could provide an opportunity for the Supreme Court to take a stance on the issue for the first time since 1939."
Italian daily Il Corriere della Sera writes:
"Shocked psychologists and sociologists ask themselves how gun violence is to be explained. Some speak of the repressed violence of a country that goes back to generations of pioneers habituated to achieve justice on their own and which is forced to face the powerful tensions within a multiracial society. Others criticize the spread of violent video games (which are, however, a phenomenon that has only emerged in recent years). In any case, gun violence is becoming a common phenomenon in the United States, one that is no longer surprising. In major cities such as New York, the extension of surveillance measures, a tough approach to crime and measures to rebuild the urban fabric have led to a drop in crime and especially in the number of homicides. But in suburban areas and smaller cities, episodes of 'ordinary violence' are on the rise. In the poorest neighborhoods, people are getting used to the use of fire-arms -- a phenomenon that is linked to the growing tendency among many young people to resort to violence to settle even minor disputes and to the ease with which weapons can be acquired."
Italian daily Il Messaggero writes:
"The bloodbath on the university campus is the work of a suicide killer -- an American suicide killer who, differently from Muslim killers, did not act out of religious motives but was driven instead by the unrest affecting broad layers of US society. America is a nation that has for some years been in danger of becoming more and more unloved in the world, especially in the poorest countries. During the period following World War II, America was seen as the guardian of democracy and was equated with the defense of liberty; today, America is a superpower that begins wars and lives with the constant necessity of having to defend itself against the enemy -- whether this enemy be called Islam or whether it bears the face of the neighbor who has done you wrong."
Spanish daily El Pais writes:
"The president of Virginia Tech called it a tragedy of monumental proportions. But similar comments could already be heard following previous tragedies of this kind. The shooting spree at the Columbine high school in Colorado, for instance, revived the debate on the necessity of better controlling access to weapons. This led to some laws being toughened and security at schools being improved. But the measures are decided by the individual states and are constantly side-stepped by means of an exaggerated interpretation of the US constitution."
German daily Bild writes:
"Now we will probably begin discussing the overly lax gun laws in the United States. There, buying a machine gun is often easier than getting a driver's license. And a new ban on violent games and killer videos will also be put back on the agenda. But in the end, nothing is likely to happen. And the next killer already lives somewhere among us. But we have little reason to point an accusing finger at the Americans. Despite strict gun legislation, we (in Germany) have experienced the school shootings in Erfurt and Emsdetten. We have to consider the problems in our society. And we have to take care of our fellow humans."
-- Max Henninger, 12:30 p.m. CET
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