Pelham Mass Chief: ‘Improperly stored arsenal’ described in trial

amm5061 said:
Except the ****ing book doesn't tell you what 100% compliance is! Short of sticking your guns in a safe and then burying it under a couple tons of concrete, what the **** is considered secure? Good god I hope he can appeal this.
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browncoat said:
Yeah. This is an uncomfortable limbo.
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Yeah, I think the "locked container" approach is now a bit too risky for anything other than a legitimate, store-bought gun safe (i.e., something your lawyer can convincingly represent in court as a "gun safe"). I think that relying on anything less (e.g., modified or reinforced rooms or closets or anything home-made) is now a risky proposition unless you double up by putting trigger locks on all your guns. [thinking] I believe that past case law said that lockable wood cabinets and even glass front lockable gun cabinets are acceptable but the new standard from this case wouldn't seem to support that at all.

I think we have to wait and see what guns the jury felt were okay and what guns the jury said were not okay. Hopefully, that will give us at least some temporary guidance until the appeal is heard. [hmmm]
 
As bad as this is, it is NOT an appellate decision so it does not set a precedent. Any judge can refer to it but the next judge can just as easily ignore it as well.

No matter what we do, if they are out for their pound of flesh, they will stop at nothing to get it.
 
[video=youtube_share;CQ4GbcuBvUQ]http://youtu.be/CQ4GbcuBvUQ[/video]

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Len-2A Training said:
As bad as this is, it is NOT an appellate decision so it does not set a precedent. Any judge can refer to it but the next judge can just as easily ignore it as well.

No matter what we do, if they are out for their pound of flesh, they will stop at nothing to get it.
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Very true Len

Halls of justice painted green
Money talking
Power wolves beset your door
Hear them stalking
Soon you'll please their appetite
They devour
Hammer of justice crushes you
Overpower
 
richc said:
So much for the thin blue line in this case...

He pissed somebody off bad.
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Hey, just look at some of the posts in this thread. Fleury has lots and lots of enemies. [mg]

But the top irony in all this? The guy who set this whole bizarre CF in motion with his complaint, Peter Terapulsky, is still listed as a "friend" on Ed Fleury's FaceBook page. [thinking] WTF???

He sure has cost his "friend" a shit-ton of money and trouble. [crying]
 
namedpipes said:
Had they charged him with one count and lost they'd simply charge him for a different "violation". One of the others. And so on, dragging it or for decades. Technically a different crime.
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Not in MA. In MA charges need to be grouped together in a somewhat logical fashion. All related charges need to be tried at once. That's why they can split the events at night at the VA and the events later in the week.
 
EJFudd said:
Yeah, I think the "locked container" approach is now a bit too risky for anything other than a legitimate, store-bought gun safe (i.e., something your lawyer can convincingly represent in court as a "gun safe"). I think that relying on anything less (e.g., modified or reinforced rooms or closets or anything home-made) is now a risky proposition unless you double up by putting trigger locks on all your guns. [thinking] I believe that past case law said that lockable wood cabinets and even glass front lockable gun cabinets are acceptable but the new standard from this case wouldn't seem to support that at all.

I think we have to wait and see what guns the jury felt were okay and what guns the jury said were not okay. Hopefully, that will give us at least some temporary guidance until the appeal is heard. [hmmm]
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Len-2A Training said:
As bad as this is, it is NOT an appellate decision so it does not set a precedent. Any judge can refer to it but the next judge can just as easily ignore it as well.

No matter what we do, if they are out for their pound of flesh, they will stop at nothing to get it.
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The jury instructions given in this case were specifically from an earlier appellate case. The problem is Reyes overruled parts of it but the SJC didn't specifically state that, but they allowed for soft sided cases, etc; Anyhow, if you folks haven't figured it out, this state isn't safe for gun ownership, forget about any particular details you think are relevant. At this point were are all walking felons.
 
terraformer said:
Not in MA. In MA charges need to be grouped together in a somewhat logical fashion. All related charges need to be tried at once. That's why they can split the events at night at the VA and the events later in the week.
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I think that's the first thing I've learned about ma laws and courts that isn't upsetting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If Police have no duty to protect. Then why do lawmakers always use the term "for public safety" etc when passing laws... Same could be said for the Police.
 
terraformer said:
Anyhow, if you folks haven't figured it out, this state isn't safe for gun ownership, forget about any particular details you think are relevant. At this point were are all walking felons.
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I get the sense that because our self defense laws are based on ye old english common law, where citizens were considered property of thy dearest king, that while ownership of firearms might be protected in premise generally speaking here in the United States, I think it's a facade generally by an industry that has it's sights on profits and sales, and that their use generally in society or even in genuine self defense scenario's will land you in a shitstorm of trouble. The majority of the public thinks guns are evil. How well does that work out for joe average gun owner who's painted as racist kill-em-all-let-god-sort-them-out type if he actually has to use one in self defense? Then again, maybe this is as it should be. The problem is, we should be judged by a jury of our peers. For gun owners, doesn't that mean by 12 people that are trained and as knowledgeable as we are? How can it be that our peers are simply 12 gun hating libtards?

To Wit: if there was any gun owners on that jury panel they would have jury nullified the safe storage laws and Fleury would not have been convicted.

Gun Ownership is a facade by and large from my observations in the United States. You can spend the money and buy one no problem. After that, you assume all legal liability and risk, and the entire legal / criminal justice system is dead set against you. From what I can see, it's basically own them and keep them locked up. YMMV depending on the state you are in. Certainly in MA even simple ownership to me is considered a legal vulnerability. In MA, what good is 2A or LTC if at any time literally any police officer can play gotcha games and the law backs them finding any tiny little loophole to bust you. IMHO from a legal liability standpoint, before I owned a single firearm in MA the "spirit" of the laws would need to shift and be the complete opposite of what they are now (a legal gotcha game) to assertive in their defense of the rights of owners.

P.S.

I'd like to see a television program mock trial several important gun self defense cases whoms legal implications affect all gun owners with a jury panel as follows: 4 gun neutral individuals, 4 gun haters, and 4 gun "nuts" as it were. I'd like the show to be about how that jury panel deliberates on the facts presented. It would be fascinating to just sit in and watch them deliberate the facts. The problem I foresee with this is that half the jurors IQ is 100 or below and only a few jurors will have IQ's high enough to process all the legalese and facts of the case and apply the law correctly. There seems to be a trend where it is far more common for jury deliberations to be simply emotionally charged the "guy's a bastard for what he did and we're going to punish him" rather than, "did the prosecution prove that he did this beyond a reasonable doubt".

Then I'd like the show to present the same case to a panel of jurors comprised of only attorneys, judges, police officers, in other words, criminal justice professionals. I would like to see what the trend is for the two juries to come to the same verdicts in the different cases presented. There you go A&E there's your next reality TV show. If I had a legit case of self defense (depending on the state) I would opt for a judge trial every time.
 
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"The problem is, we should be judged by a jury of our peers. For gun owners, doesn't that mean by 12 people that are trained and as knowledgeable as we are? How can it be that our peers are simply 12 gun hating libtards?"
*******
the trial was held in Northampton, moonbat city. I'd like to know what question's Fluery's atty. asked them during jury selection if any? You are correct that the jurors be knowledgeable about the convoluted gun storage laws in this State. Any one of those jurors who was a gun owner should have seen thru the ruse and refused to vote guilty.
 
rwl1955 said:
"The problem is, we should be judged by a jury of our peers. For gun owners, doesn't that mean by 12 people that are trained and as knowledgeable as we are? How can it be that our peers are simply 12 gun hating libtards?"
*******
the trial was held in Northampton, moonbat city. I'd like to know what question's Fluery's atty. asked them during jury selection if any? You are correct that the jurors be knowledgeable about the convoluted gun storage laws in this State. Any one of those jurors who was a gun owner should have seen thru the ruse and refused to vote guilty.
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Most gun owners in MA have been castrated.
 
rwl1955 said:
"The problem is, we should be judged by a jury of our peers. For gun owners, doesn't that mean by 12 people that are trained and as knowledgeable as we are? How can it be that our peers are simply 12 gun hating libtards?"
*******
the trial was held in Northampton, moonbat city. I'd like to know what question's Fluery's atty. asked them during jury selection if any? You are correct that the jurors be knowledgeable about the convoluted gun storage laws in this State. Any one of those jurors who was a gun owner should have seen thru the ruse and refused to vote guilty.
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Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old.
 
HARRYM said:
Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old.
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Which idiot, what actions, and for what offense would you have hung him?
 
Lcstyle said:
The problem is, we should be judged by a jury of our peers. For gun owners, doesn't that mean by 12 people that are trained and as knowledgeable as we are? How can it be that our peers are simply 12 gun hating libtards?

To Wit: if there was any gun owners on that jury panel they would have jury nullified the safe storage laws and Fleury would not have been convicted.
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rwl1955 said:
The trial was held in Northampton, moonbat city. I'd like to know what question's Fleury's atty. asked them during jury selection if any? You are correct that the jurors be knowledgeable about the convoluted gun storage laws in this State. Any one of those jurors who was a gun owner should have seen thru the ruse and refused to vote guilty.
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One has to wonder about the make-up of the jury chosen out of such a radically leftist anti-2A pool. But that said, I'll bet the prosecutor was super-determined to keep anyone who even looked like a possible gunowner (let alone a serious gun collector) off the jury. Pretty easy to do that, statistically speaking, in a county like Hampshire County, MA. If you go for mostly females (the younger the better) and only males who appear unlikely to hold FIDs or LTCs, you've got it made.

I need to find out how and when I can get a transcript of the trial. I know it's not an appellate court case yet, so it may be a little harder than just searching the Interwebs. Anyone know where I should start?
 
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HARRYM said:
We are all speaking of one Edward Fleury I believe, at least I am.
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I wasn't sure if you wanted to hang the 15 year old kid that was at the line, his father who owned the gun in question, or Fleury.

With respect to the tragedy at Westfield, for what offense would you hang him? Being stupid isn't against the law.

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HARRYM said:
I always try to be civil....
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I see that. I wasn't speaking to you.
 
HARRYM said:
Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old.
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You do realize that the law and the trial court system are not supposed to work that way, right? He was found not guilty in regard to the 2008 incident long ago. [thinking]
 
HARRYM said:
Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old.
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It doesn't matter. None of what happened at that show is germane to the conversation, except as part of the underlying reason why he's being railroaded. As I said before, I don't care how much of a dick he may be, this affects us all because it can set bad precedent. Maybe he deserves to be bitchslapped into a cell; I don't care. The infractions on the table are secure storage of firearms, not the previous stupidity of the owner thereof.

You have to look at this objectively and take your dislike of the person out of the equation, because that's what Justice is.... Or should be.
 
Here's your original post:"Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old."

Please, get your story straight. [rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes] Back peddling much?
progress.gif
 
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Uzi2 said:
Here's your original post:"Maybe......maybe not. NRA Life, GOAL for many years...and I would have hung the idiot for his actions at the Westfield show that resulted in the death of the 8yr old."

Please, get your story straight. [rolleyes][rolleyes][rolleyes] Back peddling much?
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Are you able to read post 114.......
 
HARRYM said:
Are you able to read post 114.......
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Yes, I read it and you still are of the opinion that he was responsible for the 8yo by your above post. You state plainly that you would have hanged him for it, yet a jury acquitted him of free and clear.

This whole thread is not about that trial, its about the miscarriage of justice being carried out regarding "safe storage" laws.
 

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