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Pelosi announces formal Trump impeachment inquiry

toekneepea said:
Just read the transcript - what a nothingburger.
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That isn't really the transcript (the front page literally says it's not a transcript), but if it's reflective of their actual conversation, I really don't see much there.

No threats about aid, no "find dirt on Biden," etc.

It does kind of make me like Ukraine more, lol.
 
hminsky said:
The problem is that it's a huge conflict of interest if Trump just happened to want to see justice served on this particular case right before the election on his campaign opponent. If he's playing a game of witholding financial support from Ukraine, that allows Putin to tighten his noose around that country further. The Ukrainians are in a dirty war with Putin that is not a joke at all. If our foreign policy is being jerked around for Trump's personal political gain, that fits squarely in the high crimes and misdemeanors arena.

Of course there are no facts in this case yet, just so-far anonymous accusations. But it seems credible based on past behavior that Trump thinks it is OK to flirt with foreign governments to f*** with our elections.
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That would work if this was June of 2020. It's September of 2019. We haven't even had a SINGLE primary election. Joltin Joe might not make it to Christmas with his athlete's tongue.

AAAAND, you've gotta prove intent - that Trump INTENDED to do this to thwart the CURRENT election, not just to get back at past political opponents. (Start with Joltin Joe Jr, work up the ladder to Joe and further to Obama.)

It's thin at best. At worst, it's a complete waste of time and fabrication.


Here's the serious side of it: The Dems have forgotten what the GOP lost by prosecuting Clinton. They thought they'd strengthen the base. They didn't. They alienated a ton of the country and people lost their Congressional seats because of it. Impeachment is only for the most serious of crimes by a President. Not spluging on a dress in the OO or pressuring another foreign leader to start a legitimate investigation.
 
daekken said:
That isn't really the transcript (the front page literally says it's not a transcript), but if it's reflective of their actual conversation, I really don't see much there.

No threats about aid, no "find dirt on Biden," etc.

It does kind of make me like Ukraine more, lol.
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Ukraine is WEAK!

 
Kavenaugh, unfortunately, is not an originalist. I think the big progressive problem Kavenaugh presents is that he is pro-life. Abortion is the bedrock of Progressive 5th column takeover of the republic. If they can convince our society that human life is not sacred by aborting children up to post birth, then we have no virtue left, and then the rest of the dehumanizing Communist takeover can happen. Communism is predicated on the collective, which means people are just cogs in service to the machine of the State. If it is OK to kill the most cherished, the children, you will pretty much accept anything. Where you live, what you eat, how much you can eat, what your job is going to be, etc. And while the peasants all are equal in misery, the ruling elite live like royalty. It isnt conjecture, it is every Communist society ever to exist. Kavenaugh, due to the potential of his vote in overturning Roe v Wade, is an existential threat to the march of Communism/Globalism.

VetteGirlMA said:
I still think a lot of of this nastiness that is/was directed at Kavanaugh is that he is potentially a pro 2A justice and it doesn't work very well for the leftists who want to dismantle our society one brick at a time. I think some people on the left are looking at 2020 the same way I did for 2016. Right now there are 2 liberal justices that are nearing the end of their lives and if Trump is president he is going to pick potentially 2 more from the conservative pool that he promised. Right now the left has fundamentally weak players in the midwest and battleground states and they know it. If Trump is reelected and picks one or 2 more justices the left is doomed and let's be honest they want to set up a society so that they can rule in a timeless dimension.
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So the latest stuff I've read says this unequivocally shows Trump "traded Javelins for dirt on Biden." I read the same transcript, and I have no idea how they reached these conclusions. TDS? I mean maybe you could make a huge stretch and "infer" a lot of stuff that wasn't actually said, but I don't see how conjecture/extrapolation can be a basis for impeachment as a high crime or misdemeanor.
 
daekken said:
That isn't really the transcript (the front page literally says it's not a transcript), but if it's reflective of their actual conversation, I really don't see much there.

No threats about aid, no "find dirt on Biden," etc.

It does kind of make me like Ukraine more, lol.
Click to expand...

According to what I have heard from several news interviews: Presidential conversations with foreign leaders are not recorded, they are memorialized on paper by multiple intelligence officers (4 or 5) in the Situation Room who transcribe the conversation in real time, then the multiple typed versions are reconciled for accuracy. That's what was released. I agree, there isn't much there other than in the mind of Democrats. It's not surprising that we're starting to hear rumblings that "it's not a transcription!" and therefore not acceptable! Since apparently it's the only record of the conversation, Dems can either accept it (a big nothing-burger), or howl at the moon for a recording that doesn't exist. Perhaps they'll subpoena the intelligence officers involved in front of Congress, but that'll play as well as dragging Mueller/Lewandowski in front of Congress.
 
Did you notice how they went from release the transcript to "the transcript is fake" once he said he'll release it? Then they said Trump blocked aid and pressured Ukraine on the call unless they investigated Biden but when he said there was no "quid pro quo" and it was friendly, the conversation switched to Trump "asking a foreign official to influence our elections"? Did you notice how well orchestrated the immediate response from the media "experts" was?

Then there is a supposed accidental email from the White House that twitter "journalists" are interpreting as "talking points" of the administration. We're not going to hear the end of it until election time. It's another whole lot of nothing and wasted dollars to "investigate". They will come up shorthanded, frustrated, and they will lose even worse in 2020. Mark my words.
 
xtry51 said:
The transcript is an epic middle finger to the Dems by Trump.
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I am convinced now that Trump knew it was coming. He was too ready with the response. So the Dems look like total idiots, again, Biden's corruption is now even being questioned by the Progressive propaganda press, some Republicans have gone on the offensive, and Pelosi put her donkey (Jack-Ass) head in a virtual noose for the 2020 elections.
 
The Democratic/MSM talking points are that the Trump call was akin to a Mafia shakedown -- "You got a nice little country there, would hate to see something bad happen to it."

The only crime Trump is guilty of is beating Hilary in the election. (That makes me giggle being able to write that even three years later!!)
 
For those wondering:



This also has a somewhat decent overview of the situation, from 2015

Joe Biden, His Son and the Case Against a Ukrainian Oligarch

And a guy named Devon Archer was a Hunter Biden business partner who also was brought on with him to the board. A year or so later he was federally convicted of multiple counts of fraud. Conveniently enough, despite being convicted along with two others, he alone had his conviction overturned. The other two, nope, they are shit out of luck.


The corruption runs so deep you have corrupt people using other corrupt people to coverup for their corruption while targeting other corrupt people. It’s insane.
 
Dennis in MA said:
That would work if this was June of 2020. It's September of 2019. We haven't even had a SINGLE primary election. Joltin Joe might not make it to Christmas with his athlete's tongue.

AAAAND, you've gotta prove intent - that Trump INTENDED to do this to thwart the CURRENT election, not just to get back at past political opponents. (Start with Joltin Joe Jr, work up the ladder to Joe and further to Obama.)

It's thin at best. At worst, it's a complete waste of time and fabrication.


Here's the serious side of it: The Dems have forgotten what the GOP lost by prosecuting Clinton. They thought they'd strengthen the base. They didn't. They alienated a ton of the country and people lost their Congressional seats because of it. Impeachment is only for the most serious of crimes by a President. Not spluging on a dress in the OO or pressuring another foreign leader to start a legitimate investigation.
Click to expand...
The thing is people give Trump a pass for behavior that would not pass muster in other officials. They say he's just being himself, but
why did he suspend the aid to Ukraine in the first place. It sure smells like he wanted leverage to ask his 'favor'.

That said, I'm not in favor of impeachment over this, but I am in favor of not voting for him in the next election.
 
It exposes the hypocrisy. Biden brags about withholding a Billion unless someone is fired, and the left calls that anti-corruption. But when Trump does even less, and doesn’t have a personal stake in it like Biden did considering his son, it’s impeachment worthy!

I’m not a fan of giving billions to foreign countries in the first place, so my position on threatening to withhold money is that it’s not a big deal. But that’s again, only because i don’t support giving money to foreign countries in the first place.

I’m not well versed in the legalities behind the process of how giving money to foreign countries works, but presumably the POTUS has some role. Assuming they have authority to withhold money, I’d think demanding someone be fired and ensuring the replacement doesn’t investigate a company for corruption (one that your son works for) is far worse than asking that a company be investigated for corruption. But that’s just me. I mean which one is doing more for anti-corruption?
 
hminsky said:
The thing is people give Trump a pass for behavior that would not pass muster in other officials. They say he's just being himself, but
why did he suspend the aid to Ukraine in the first place. It sure smells like he wanted leverage to ask his 'favor'.

That said, I'm not in favor of impeachment over this, but I am in favor of not voting for him in the next election.
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I don't know if you actually understand what happened, Trump never discussed anything about aid, it was a completely made up story, read the transcript. Even the president of Ukraine was interviewed and said it was never discussed, and he also said that he is well aware of the issue, and already planned on investigating it.
ON the other hand, Democrats have threatened Ukraine directly by telling them they would not get US aid if they didn't provide dirt on Trump for the fictitious Russian Collusion story, also cooked up by Democrats. Biden threatened Ukraine directly to fire the prosecutor to cover Hunter's tracks, he was actually being paid $85k/month to be on the board of the oil company, at the request of Joe Biden, 2 months after he was thrown out of the Navy for cocaine abuse. Tomorrow this is all coming out in a very thorough article, with official documents from everyone, that prove Joe Biden is lying out of his pie hole.

I am convinced this is all designed to cover all of the Democrat corruption related to Ukraine coming to light so the Democrats can try and discredit their real corruption issues. Also one of the DOJ investigations is actually digging into Ukraine as part of their scope, and it is allegedly quite damning for the Obama administration and Joe Biden. We need to see people in prison, and I hope Barr is going to take it all the way. The future of the Republic is at stake.
 
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beaker said:
I don't know if you actually understand what happened, Trump never discussed anything about aid, it was a completely made up story, read the transcript. Even the president of Ukraine was interviewed and said it was never discussed, and he also said that he is well aware of the issue, and already planned on investigating it.
ON the other hand, Democrats have threatened Ukraine directly by telling them they would not get US aid if they didn't provide dirt on Trump for the fictitious Russian Collusion story, also cooked up by Democrats. Biden threatened Ukraine directly to fire the prosecutor to cover Hunter's tracks, he was actually being paid $85k/month to be on the board of the oil company, at the request of Joe Biden, 2 months after he was thrown out of the Navy for cocaine abuse. Tomorrow this is all coming out in a very thorough article, with official documents from everyone, that prove Joe Biden is lying out of his pie hole.

I am convinced this is all designed to cover all of the Democrat corruption related to Ukraine coming to light so the Democrats can try and discredit their real corruption issues. Also one of the DOJ investigations is actually digging into Ukraine as part of their scope, and it is allegedly quite damning for the Obama administration and Joe Biden. We need to see people in prison, and I hope Barr is going to take it all the way. The future of the Republic is at stake.
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Unfortunately I'm not optimistic. The Swamp is Swampier than I could have imagined.
 
image-370.png
 
Maybe it's been mentioned before, but the more impeachment talk they have, the less AWB talk they can fit in.

And there are days that I think that, strategy-wise, Trump operates on a completely different level than everyone else in DC.

 
I just read the WB letter. Everything in there is hearsay. I'm not sure how this passes any muster for further action when all you have is some person saying unnamed people told them pieces of a story then said person concocted those unrelated discussions into a conspiracy theory.
 
xtry51 said:
I just read the WB letter. Everything in there is hearsay. I'm not sure how this passes any muster for further action when all you have is some person saying unnamed people told them pieces of a story then said person concocted those unrelated discussions into a conspiracy theory.
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This. One of the bullets on the first page literally says "I was not a direct witness".
 

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