Pistol Advice?

[mark056]

I am still committed to the concept that new shooters are best served with a revolver. A good used Ruger, S&W or Colt in .357 are optimal choices. 4 inch barrel works best, and it is possible to conceal a medium framed 4 inch revolver, perhaps not as well as a smaller gun, but still do-able. A .22 like a Ruger MkIII or a Browning Buckmark make for great additional handguns. For rifles nothing beats a .22 made by Ruger, Winchester, Remington, or Marlin.

With regard to gun ranges, I am the "other Mark from Leominster"...I used to be a member of the North Leominster Club, but the hours I worked precluded much in the way of participation. I think it is a very good club with a strong emphasis on trap and skeet. I think you will enjoy being a member.

The Boston Gun Range in Worcester really isn't any easier to get to than Manchester from Leominster in my opinion. I have known the owner of that range since the middle 90's. also a Mark: Mark Takashian. I have always felt he charges way too much money to use the range. I like the Manchester Firing Line and from Leominster it is only about an hour's drive on Rte 13 to 101 to the turn-off to the airport. The rates are cheaper there (plus they give discounts if you are LE or military, Boston used to, but now they don't) and they have a very comprehensive selection of rental weapons including submachine guns.

Congratulations and best wishes.

Mark056 (the other Mark from Leominster)

 

[Nickle]

Tele_Mark, if you're going to be up my way, you're welcome to try some of my stuff out. I didn't offer before due to the distance, and yes, I did suspect you were a X-Country type skier, but hey, if you want to try something, we might go up to Ripton (VT). I don't X-C, but it isn't a long ways from the road to the pit, and it'll give me an excuse to get the snowshoes I've been procrastinating on.

 

[Adam_MA]

Ok...

I'm gonna drift WAY off what everyone else is recommending here...

When I got my LTC (to replace my FID) I had already had plenty of experience shooting rifle/shotgun and some pistol. I wanted a gun, that I could use for both fun at the range, and to carry for self defense. I had to pick only one gun because of $$$

I did my research and settled on a rather new gun. I chose the Walther P99 in .40S&W. Most folks (as you can see from this post) told me that is was not the best choice of gun for a first handgun. They told me that I should get a .22 to practice on. Well, I had a .22. It was a revolver that my father had given me, and as a kid I shot that thing every chance I got. I hadn't done much shooting with pistol in the past 10 years or so, and I wanted a gun to fill my 2 immediate needs. I did my research, and went to a bunch of gun shops and touched, handled, pointed, caressed, drooled over, and dreamed about just about every gun I touched.

I wish I would have followed the advice of going to one of the rental ranges to try them out. I'm sure that would have helped me make a quicker decision. But I'm sure that would have only helped me make a quicker decision on the P99 that I ended up with. It just fit my hand, and felt perfect to hold, and more importantly than that is pointed naturally for me.

The day I got my LTC in the mail, I was at the gun shop buying my new P99, and am very happy in the choice.

My point... I think I had one when I started.... Oh yeah, there is some great advice on this board, and some great advice in this thread as well. From what I have seen on this thread I feel the best advice is to get yourself to one of the rental ranges, rent the couple of guns that you have probably narrowed it down to already, and find out what one you like the best.

Remember, if you like the way a gun feels and shoots better over another one, but the one that doesn't fit your hand as well, or feel better to shoot is more accurate for you, you can become more accurate with the one that feels better with enough perfect practice.

Adam

 

[M1911]

I am still committed to the concept that new shooters are best served with a revolver.

My first gun was a Glock 17. Worked fine for me. YMMV.

 

[tele_mark]

OT then back On Topic..

How do you like the parabolics? I'm still skiing on straight wall downhills...

Well, I'm not really skiing on them. I've yet to be skiing since I've moved to MA because can you believe that I can't find anyone to ski with?? I've been here for four years and can't find someone to ski with...this sucks.

I do know that I need new boots because I tried to get into mine and they were too small. And, I'm sure that I'm not going to be too parallel because it's been 5 or so years since I've been on the slopes.

Anyway, back on-topic. Don't konw where you are compared to me, but I'm willing to do the same...I'll take you to my local club and let you try some of the things that I have.

I haven't been skiing downhill long, so pretty much all of my experience with skis other than XC has been with shaped skis. I do have a set of old school Fischer Phantoms with an ancient tele binding that my neighbor gave me, but I haven't done much with them yet. Everyone I talk to who skied strait skies for years or decades says they wouldn't even think about going back, so naturally I got the Fischers to see what the fuss is about.

If you ever want to ski at Wachusett, let me know. I'm a pas holder and can get down there most evenings.

Mark

 

[tele_mark]

Tele_Mark, if you're going to be up my way, you're welcome to try some of my stuff out. I didn't offer before due to the distance, and yes, I did suspect you were a X-Country type skier, but hey, if you want to try something, we might go up to Ripton (VT). I don't X-C, but it isn't a long ways from the road to the pit, and it'll give me an excuse to get the snowshoes I've been procrastinating on.

Thanks for the invite I don't get up into VT as often as I like (one day I want to live there, though), but will give you a PM if I do (I also have snowshoes). I'll probably get out to Woodford a few times this seaon to ski at Prospect Mountain, and hopefully the Tele Fest at Mad River Glen in March.

 

[tele_mark]

Well, based on the input form this thread, I'm more biased towards a nice 4" .357 revolver for the first purchase, which was pretty much my original choice when I decided to get my LTC, before I got distracted by all the semi-auto eye candy. . I must confess that I would've ended up with Firtree's 6906 if I'd moved a little quicker.

I should clarify my intended use -- First and foremost, the gun will be used for home defense and target shooting. I don't see myself getting into pistol shooting in and of itself, but believe if you own a gun, you don't simply throw it into storage and forget it. Owning one comes with the obligation to fire and use it regularly and to maintain an adequate skill level in it's use.

I also don't see myself carrying concealed, at least not right now. But, having the LTC-A gives a nice warm fuzzy feeling as far as options go. There may be times when something happens in the news where I may want to exercise my carry privileges, and so I will take courses on handgun self defense.

The area where I will want to carry is on one of my frequent, solo mountain bike rides in the woods which sometimes can be described as "epic". So, I'll be looking for that type of concealability. I'm not sure how the 4" S&W revolvers would fit the bill, but I'll look. It's a few months until I'm in the woods again, so by that time, perhaps it'll be time for a small semi auto for carry.

Mark

 

[Adam_MA]

I don't see myself getting into pistol shooting in and of itself,

Famous last words!
You may surprise yourself by becoming addicted like the rest of us here!

The area where I will want to carry is on one of my frequent, solo mountain bike rides in the woods which sometimes can be described as "epic". So, I'll be looking for that type of concealability. I'm not sure how the 4" S&W revolvers would fit the bill, but I'll look.

One of those fanny packs for carrying might be a good option for this.

Adam

 

[C-pher]

The area where I will want to carry is on one of my frequent, solo mountain bike rides in the woods which sometimes can be described as "epic". So, I'll be looking for that type of concealability. I'm not sure how the 4" S&W revolvers would fit the bill, but I'll look.

One of those fanny packs for carrying might be a good option for this.

Adam

Yes, as I'm sure that you know. The more that you keep off your bike, the better you are. So I wouldn't recomend keeping it in your saddle bag. As that usually carries your alien, tube, a sock and some cash. Or maybe if you have a good Camel Bak, one with the extra storage...maybe you could keep it in there. That's if you ride with a camel bak.

 

[tele_mark]

I definitly use a Camelbak --this monster:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K48D51E5C when I'm soloing, a smaller one for shorter rides. But I think I'd probably carry concealed in that situation, as if I needed it, it's hard to get at quickly in the 'Bak.

 

[C-pher]

I definitly use a Camelbak --this monster:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K48D51E5C when I'm soloing, a smaller one for shorter rides. But I think I'd probably carry concealed in that situation, as if I needed it, it's hard to get at quickly in the 'Bak.

Yea, I but I would be worried about carrying in riding shorts. And being as bumpy as it is on trails, I would worry about it loosening up and falling off. And carrying with a shoulder holster, I would worry about falling.

I don't know, maybe I'm just more concerned than I should be...

BTW, what do you ride? I have a '99 Fisher Tassajara.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Start with a .22 ?

was not the best choice of gun for a first handgun. They told me that I should get a .22 to practice on.

When in doubt, you can always freeload the wisdom generated by the professionals who actually have the time, budget and staff to research training issues (no, I'm not talking about the local PD )

I have not been able to find any well funded federal agency which starts training their officers with .22's and them moves them up to the 40's.

So, either those advising that beginners wanting to learn how to handle a full sized defensive caliber start with a .22 first are either (a) off the mark, or (b) know something the FBI training academy does not.

 

[tele_mark]

Re: Start with a .22 ?

was not the best choice of gun for a first handgun. They told me that I should get a .22 to practice on.

When in doubt, you can always freeload the wisdom generated by the professionals who actually have the time, budget and staff to research training issues (no, I'm not talking about the local PD )

I have not been able to find any well funded federal agency which starts training their officers with .22's and them moves them up to the 40's.

So, either those advising that beginners wanting to learn how to handle a full sized defensive caliber start with a .22 first are either (a) off the mark, or (b) know something the FBI training academy does not.

I can still see the need to do it -- if you can swing it. I do intend to buy a .22 plinker with whatever "real" centerfire I end up with, and split my range time between the two. But to spend time on the .22 exclusivly until I'm good enough to go to a centerfire for self defense, which is why I got the LTC in the first place -- couldn't see it.

 

[tele_mark]

I definitly use a Camelbak --this monster:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?K48D51E5C when I'm soloing, a smaller one for shorter rides. But I think I'd probably carry concealed in that situation, as if I needed it, it's hard to get at quickly in the 'Bak.

Yea, I but I would be worried about carrying in riding shorts. And being as bumpy as it is on trails, I would worry about it loosening up and falling off. And carrying with a shoulder holster, I would worry about falling.

I don't know, maybe I'm just more concerned than I should be...

BTW, what do you ride? I have a '99 Fisher Tassajara.

It's not that pretty anymore -- this was the day I brought it home. Where do you ride? I'm a Leominster SF local, as well as Townsend SF, and many other places. I'm active in NEMBA, if you're into mountain biking , and you're not a member, you should check out www.nemba.org. I have the same screen name on the forum over there.

Mark

 

[PistolPete]

I thnk you need to ask yourself what you plan on doing with your shooting? Do you want to get into competition shooting, self defense, or just target shooting? That will affect what you would want to purchase. My first gun was a Sig P226 .40 which was a good gun but then I shot a few matches and was quickly turned onto 1911's. I've owned a bunch of different types of guns but now all I really shoot are 1911 variants.

As for the P22 I have one that I bought so my wife could use and it jams more than it doesn't. I finally found some ammo that seems to work without jamming but not a very reliable gun.

If you're going to buy a .22 I would recommend a Ruger. Maybe even look at the Sig Mosquito but I have yet to shoot that.

For the money though a used Glock 17 or 19 is a good all around 9mm gun. I've shot many many Glocks and they're good guns but have yet to ever purchase one. I guess they're not really for me but they are great guns.

 

[tele_mark]

Your'e more than the second person who's warned me against the P22, so I think it'll be the pistol I won't end up with. Pity, it looks so freakin' cool!

You bring up an interesting point I forgot to mention , so I should add that IDPA shooting fascinates me, and I think I'd like to get into that eventually. But, that seems like an entirely different ball game, so I wasn't even considering purchasing a first handgun around that end. I don't think I'd get into IDPA until I have enough of the basics down to warrant looking at competing, and by the time I got there, I figured I'd have a good handle on what my main carry arm would be.

 

[C-pher]

I know that there are a lot of people that haven't had luck with the P22, but I have mine and there isn't anything that I haven't been able to feed through it.

Hell, I've fired hundreds of rounds without even cleaning it and never had a problem.

 

[tele_mark]

I know that there are a lot of people that haven't had luck with the P22, but I have mine and there isn't anything that I haven't been able to feed through it.

Hell, I've fired hundreds of rounds without even cleaning it and never had a problem.

.

I'm so confused.....

 

[mark056]

In a different time and place using a .22 as an "understudy" gun was not that uncommon, and K-framed S&W's in .22 were used for this. High Standard .22 target pistols had the same grip angle as the .45 as does the Ruger Government Model. Now, the advantage of this had to do with competition (similiar ergonomic "feel") but I do believe one of the original intentions of this, was so that the .22's could be used for training and practice as well.

Whether any Federal agency uses .22's in their training program or not, I don't believe is as relevent to a lawfully armed civilian. I am fairly confident that trainers such as Mas Ayoob or Clint Smith do not have their students shoot .22's as a prequisite to larger calibers, either. In defence of using the .22, however, I think it is a good way to teach the fundamentals of marksmanship economically. For people who do not reload, or have limited budgets, or can't aford to attend a fancy shooting school, the simple fact is that one can shoot literally thousands of .22's for the price of hundreds of center fire cartridges. Also, many .22's handugns are reasonably priced.

Regards,

Mark

 

[PistolPete]

You mentioned that you may want to shoot IDPA eventually so you should consider that NOW. That being said you don't need the biggest and baddest gun around to shoot IDPA or IPSC. However, if you buy a gun that isn't good for IDPA now then when you get into IDPA shooting you'll need a new gun and to relearn to use a new gun. That can make the learning process longer.

Again, the Glock is a great compromise. You can use it for target shooting because it is very accurate and reliable, it's great from self defense, and would work perfectly in IDPA or IPSC competition.

My guess however, is if you get into competitive shooting you'll eventually get into 1911's so maybe you should just get one right away... The only problem with a 1911 is 95% of them are chambered in .45 ACP and the ones that aren't are not even close to your $600 budget.

In my opinion I don't think I would even bother with a .22 pistol. I would get a 9mm or .40 S&W and a ton of ammo and just practice with the 1 gun. My thought is that if you are shooting 1 gun you will become GREAT at that ONE gun but if you shoot 2 or more you will be OK at 2 or more. Which would you rather???

ps. I live in Western MA off of RT 2 if you want to shoot a few 1911's or even the P22.

Pete

 

[JackO]

Maybe even look at the Sig Mosquito but I have yet to shoot that.

I was looking at the Mosquito too. It looks nice and feels great in my hand (Four Seasons has both models, black and green). Given SIG reputation for quality and reliability, Mosquito was my first choice for .22LR handgun. I almost bought one. But luckly I decided to try shooting one before buying. I called Manchester Firing Line and talked to Mike: He really surprised me with information that they had two Mosquitos and both are sent back to SIG: various problems, jamming, etc. I guess, Mosquito might be a good handgun, but too fresh on the market yet. SIG still needs some time to work it out.

I ended up buying a S&W 41 with 5.5" barrel.
Sure, it's in the different class, but that's another story.

Jack

 

[Len-2A Training]

Jack,

You won't go wrong with a S&W 41.

Enjoy!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

22's

Sure, it's in the different class, but that's another story.

The Model 41 will continue to occupy a treasured place in your arsenal long after you've added countless center fire handguns. I would not be able to make the same confident prediction regarding some of the big name "22 look-alikes of the 9's and 40's" which seem to be popular today.

Nicely chosen.

 

[JackO]

Len and Rob, thank you.

I'm not a new shooter, have some previous military (very limited, I'm an"electronics" guy) experience and was shooting occasionally with friend's guns, but S&W 41 is my first own gun. So as a new owner I have some novice questions on the preparation of the new gun for the first shooting.

As I read on this forum, some people say they "break in" new .22LR pistols with specific ammo. Is it recommended, and if yes, what ammo should I use?

Also, as recommended in the manual, I field stripped the gun and wiped out the oil from the parts and cleaned the bore with dry patches, no gun cleaner was used (as I understand, protective oil layer was put at the factory to prevent rusting while in storage). Then per manual instructions I put a single drop of gun oil on the slide rails. Is this lubrication enough? Do I need to put some lube on the return spring and the guide rod (the one the spring sits on)? Any other lubrication is needed?

 

[Coyote33]

Re: Picking a first handgun

...

I would suggest considering the type of gun you want to buy, and they buying a name brand classic which occupies the niche you wish to fill - something with a reputation for reliability, quality and for which there is an abundant supply of parts and service.

Some that come to mind:

.22 Target Pistol
Center fire defensive semi auto pistol:
Center fire single action - 1911 or Browning HiPower
Small revolver: S&W J Frame (many variants)
Large revolver: S&W 686 (6 or 7 shot models available)...

You left out a bunch:

center fire hunting

rimfire hunting

pinshoot "special"

target range gun (see 1 above this one, not to be confused with "target" gun)

"it feels good" gun, meaning one which is satisfying to the senses either for the wood, the bluing, both, or something else

the "cannon" for the sheer thrill of it

the "cheapie", aka Saturday Night Special. This would surely fill the burning need to get something, and since the value is so low anyhow, it wouldn't be a huge loss when you resell it for a similar price.

The specialized handgun like a Thompson Center, an XP or some other type like this.

I am sure there are a bunch of other missing categories as well.

 

[Coyote33]

In a different time and place using a .22 as an "understudy" gun was not that uncommon, and K-framed S&W's in .22 were used for this. High Standard .22 target pistols had the same grip angle as the .45 as does the Ruger Government Model. Now, the advantage of this had to do with competition (similiar ergonomic "feel") but I do believe one of the original intentions of this, was so that the .22's could be used for training and practice as well.

Whether any Federal agency uses .22's in their training program or not,...

Aren't there a bunch of used .22 rifles in the CMP "program"?

 

[Pilgrims Pride]

Tele mark,

I believe that first and formost after firearm safety every new shooter needs to learn proper shooting form.
I.E. sight alignment, sight picture and proper trigger squeeze.
While some may learn perfectly well on a larger caliber, your average new shooter is going to be more comfortable with the fact that there is no recoil and little report when the pistol is fired.

My first 22 pistol was a Ruger Mark II.

My second was a Ruger GP-100 stainless w/ 4 inch barrel.

They are very reliable hand guns.

Still have'm, still love'm.

Many here will argue over the pros and cons of certain brands and while there is some validity to each, it all comes down to you.
What can you afford and what are you looking for.

Years ago I was looking for a new truck.
I talked with a mechanic friend who gave me this advice.
"Trucks are all pretty much the same. Whether it's a Ford, a Dodge or a Chevy, they all have their quirks but they are all similar. So when you find one in the color you like, buy it."

So when you find the hand gun you like, Buy it.

 

[Coyote33]

...while there is some validity to each, it all comes down to you.
What can you afford and what are you looking for.
...
So when you find the hand gun you like, Buy it.

Not only what you can afford or what you are looking for, but it has to "fit" properly too. I liked Glocks, but they didn't fit my hand. I liked Sigs, but couldn't afford one. I didn't care for S&W autos. I couldn't find an H&K. I ended up with a Ruger, which fit both my hand, my budget, and my needs.

As far as what vehicle to buy, I always ask at the muffler/repair shop what they see a lot of (in need of fixing), what's expensive to fix, what they recommend, and what they actually own themselves. Most times it points to Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda. If Toyota made a bigger Tundra, or Honda made a real (framed) truck, they would do very well.

 

[M1911]

If Toyota made a bigger Tundra

Toyota is in the process of starting up a factory in Texas to do just that. The new Tundra will be larger -- similar in size to the domestic full-size trucks. The new Sequioa will be built off the same platform. I believe the new Tundra is due out next year.

I would not recommend buying stock in Ford or GM.

 

[dwarven1]

I ended up with a Ruger, which fit both my hand, my budget, and my needs.

I have a Ruger P90 which I consider to be one of the ugliest guns I've ever seen... and it is utterly reliable, and fits my hand like Excalibur fitted King Arthur's. Just a great gun.

Although I do have to admit... it's not quite as ugly as a Glock. Maybe I'll get it a Glock safemate to keep it company in between outings. [lol]