Question for those who like decocker + safety

Varmint

Varmint

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How do you train if your pistol has decocker and safety? Do you decock and put it on safe each time you holster it? Leave it cocked and put it on safe, then holster? If the latter I assume you'd carry it cocked and locked.

I have a USP compact and I'm considering removing the safety function since it seems too confusing to say, fire 2 shots, push lever down to decock, push lever up to safe, then holster. Don't really want to carry cocked and locked either. I think I prefer the Sig style => decocker, no safety, carry it in DA/SA mode.

PS Don't really need to hear from Glock guys in this thread, that's for another thread. :)
 
I carry Sigs because I like them. DA/SA triggers only and the decocker is one of the features that I like best. With all the controls being the same (except for the 230 mag release) makes operating them second nature.
 
Asaltweapon said:
I carry Sigs because I like them. DA/SA triggers only and the decocker is one of the features that I like best. With all the controls being the same (except for the 230 mag release) makes operating them second nature.
Click to expand...

Thanks, you reminded me that since I have a P226 as well, i'll have more uniformity of function if I delete the safety from the USPc, and it's an easy $10 swap. It was one of the reasons I got the USP, don't think you can easily remove the safety from a P30 (could be wrong).
 
Sigs and the Beretta 92FS aren't meant to be carried cocked and locked. Considering you can't lock them without decocking them, your only other option is to carry them cocked and unlocked which is the worst way you could carry.

For something I was going to carry, I much prefer the Sig style of decocker to that of the Beretta. Plus it's not on the slide.

Note that Beretta also makes a 92G that has a decocker only, meaning the lever returns to its original position after decocking, similar to the Sigs.
 
On my S&W all Generation of pistols I decock and immediately after the hammer is lowered return the decocker/safety to the fire position. This would also apply to the Beretta. Pistol remains in the hand pointed down range so it goes like this:

Combat reload:

1. Eject empty mag 2. Insert new mag 3. Bring pistol forward into battery (if doing combat reload safety will be off and pistol will in SA mode)

If inserting a mag into an empty pistol:

1. Have decocker/safety in safe mode (all the way down) 2. Have slide retracted held by slide stop 3. Insert magazine 4. Release slide, goes into battery 5. Immediately place decocker/safety into upright position into fire mode. I have always used the Ayoob "hitchhiker thumb" method of putting the decocker into the fire position. The pistol is now ready to fire in DA mode. Commence firing or holster pistol.

The pistol is held in the dominant hand pointed in a safe direction. I have used this method for nearly forty years with no problems. I do the same thing with my Sig except I use the de cocking lever. As always remember to keep your finger off the trigger and never point the pistol at anything you are not willing to destroy. [wink]

I never carry it with the safety on. There is no need to carry them on safe. All except 1st Gen S&W have firing pin retention springs of some sort and are drop proof. Wolff Springs makes an extra power firing pin spring for the original M39 Some PDs and the U.S. Military will require that decocker/safety pistols be carried on safe but that really is a belt and suspenders approach.
 
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For my Beretta 92A1 I carry it hammer down, safety off. I've fired it enough with the DA hammer pull and I'm content with how comfortable it's become for me to accurately fire it that way.
Of course with it always being in the holster when carried, I'm not worrying about NDs with a trigger pull that heavy while the holstered.
 
ToddDubya said:
Sigs and the Beretta 92FS aren't meant to be carried cocked and locked. Considering you can't lock them without decocking them, your only other option is to carry them cocked and unlocked which is the worst way you could carry.
Click to expand...

My HK you could carry cocked and locked, the lever goes down to decock, up to safe.

But if I don't plan to use the safety I think it makes sense to remove it.
 
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I have a SP 2022 with decocker and slide safety. I carry hammer down, safety off. Actually, I never use the safety at all. I just bought it with the safety because it was the last 2022 they had at that time.
 
The USP is one of the few DA handguns that can be carried cocked with the safety on. If I was going to carry mine, I would convert it to safety only, removing the decocker. The DA trigger on USPs is horrid and I'm a 1911 guy so I am comfortable with cocked and locked.

If you are going to carry hammer down, then I don't see any need for the safety.
 
Love my Sig P226, carry it in DA mode. As a lefty, I particularly don't want to have to worry about fiddling with a safety. Unfortunately, it's one of the reasons why I don't carry a 1911.
 
Varmint said:
I have a USP compact and I'm considering removing the safety function since it seems too confusing to say, fire 2 shots, push lever down to decock, push lever up to safe, then holster. Don't really want to carry cocked and locked either. I think I prefer the Sig style => decocker, no safety, carry it in DA/SA mode.
Click to expand...

Most people who own a USP don't use the safety after decocking. You decock it and put it in the holster. Done. Or run it like a 1911.

WTF difference does it make if you can enable the safety post decock or not? It's not the type of safety that accidentally engages itself very easily. I've carried USPs for years in some of the shittiest holsters and never had that lever self-enable. I mean HK does make a decock only plate for that gun, I think its Variant 3, but good luck finding that crap... because nobody ever uses it.

-Mike
 
I carry my 92S hammer down, safety off. The DA pull isn't too bad, and there's no chance of a ND when I have it in my Alien Gear holster. I'm considering swapping the slide to that of a 92G, decocker-only. I've never had it happen, but I'd hate for the safety to work itself on when I expect only DA.
 
My Walther P99 has a decocker which I like. If I have one in the pipe decocked it takes a DA to fire. This way I can carry a round chambered with that extra assurance of the need to pull a DA to fire - the P99 has no safety on it..
 
M1911 said:
The USP is one of the few DA handguns that can be carried cocked with the safety on. If I was going to carry mine, I would convert it to safety only, removing the decocker. The DA trigger on USPs is horrid and I'm a 1911 guy so I am comfortable with cocked and locked.

If you are going to carry hammer down, then I don't see any need for the safety.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I'm not used to 1911s or cocked and locked but that's an interesting option. Would save me having to train with the DA first shot.

- - - Updated - - -

drgrant said:
Most people who own a USP don't use the safety after decocking. You decock it and put it in the holster. Done. Or run it like a 1911.

WTF difference does it make if you can enable the safety post decock or not? It's not the type of safety that accidentally engages itself very easily. I've carried USPs for years in some of the shittiest holsters and never had that lever self-enable. I mean HK does make a decock only plate for that gun, I think its Variant 3, but good luck finding that crap... because nobody ever uses it.

-Mike
Click to expand...

Murphy's Law says the safety will be on the first time your life is depending on it being off!
 
daekken said:
Love my Sig P226, carry it in DA mode. As a lefty, I particularly don't want to have to worry about fiddling with a safety. Unfortunately, it's one of the reasons why I don't carry a 1911.
Click to expand...

You can put an ambidextrous safety on a 1911. You can also train yourself to use a safety in less time than it takes to master the DA/SA transition.

1911s have plenty of warts, but the whole "safeties will get you killed" mantra is just beyond me. It isn't that hard.
 
Varmint said:
Murphy's Law says the safety will be on the first time your life is depending on it being off!
Click to expand...

No. When you draw the gun, as the muzzle passes through the 45 degree angle, you sweep the safety off with your thumb. On a 1911, you keep your thumb on the safety while you fire the gun.

When you go to holster, you draw the gun back to your chest. You then apply the safety, rotate the gun down and holster.

If the gun is in your hand, the safety is off. It isn't that hard to learn. You just need to practice. Start doing so with the gun empty. After a thousand draws it will become habit. You will do it without thinking about it.

There are plenty of guns with decent DA triggers that can be learned. Again, it will take a lot of practice. The USP DA trigger, however, is just completely awful.
 
M1911 said:
You can put an ambidextrous safety on a 1911. You can also train yourself to use a safety in less time than it takes to master the DA/SA transition. 1911s have plenty of warts, but the whole "safeties will get you killed" mantra is just beyond me. It isn't that hard.
Click to expand...



In the real world when fine motor skills go south, and the reliance on a flash sight picture with adrenaline flowing, I doubt seriously if the shooter is really going to notice much a long 10 - 12 first round pull followed by a short 4 - 5 lb pull. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I think that that the traditions DA semi auto presents no bigger challenge than any other system.
 
M1911 said:
You can put an ambidextrous safety on a 1911. You can also train yourself to use a safety in less time than it takes to master the DA/SA transition.

1911s have plenty of warts, but the whole "safeties will get you killed" mantra is just beyond me. It isn't that hard.
Click to expand...

Yup.
Lack of safety is more likely to get you /someone else shot, IMO.

The funny part for me is - people that don't trust themselves/others with thumb flipping a steel lever into a position while pulling the gun out of the holster - do trust themselves/others with being able to aim (to the right target) know what's behind it and fire an accurate shot.

It's the equivalent of being afraid to start a car's ignition switch but telling everyone you're a kickass driver once the engine is running.

If you think you'll shit the bed with a gosh darn safety, what in the world are trying to operate a firearm for, operator ?

If it's just to decrease your response time by a split second, then- I somehow get that, with some reservations.
 
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mark056 said:
In the real world when fine motor skills go south, and the reliance on a flash sight picture with adrenaline flowing, I doubt seriously if the shooter is really going to notice much a long 10 - 12 first round pull followed by a short 4 - 5 lb pull. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I think that that the traditions DA semi auto presents no bigger challenge than any other system.
Click to expand...

Yes and no (as always Mark056)

While I do subscribe to the "fine motor skills" idea, this notion had basically convinced too many people that if shit happens, they basically become 4 months old again, sucking a thumb of one hand while trying to control what then seems to them a 400lb hand cannon.

One might not be able to paint a galloping horse when it's time to shoot, but - moving your fingers around (if practiced) to the point you can on/off a light switch, can and should be second nature, and not beyond anyone's capabilities. If one cannot obtain that - he will shoot his toes first, some vase second, a bystander, and well, maybe the perp at some point.
 
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mark056 said:
In the real world when fine motor skills go south, and the reliance on a flash sight picture with adrenaline flowing, I doubt seriously if the shooter is really going to notice much a long 10 - 12 first round pull followed by a short 4 - 5 lb pull. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I think that that the traditions DA semi auto presents no bigger challenge than any other system.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, Mark, but that is just crap.

Your marksmanship under stress will be no better (and probably worse) than your marksmanship under no stress. In other words, if you can't effectively manage the DA/SA transition in practice, then you won't effectively manage it in a gunfight.

Can the DA/SA transition be learned? Absolutely. Many of the top USPSA guys are now using DA/SA guns in production (CZ and EAA guns are getting popular). But it takes a lot of practice, and those USPSA guys are running light triggers.
 
Mr. Gold said:
If it's just to decrease your response time by a split second, then- I somehow get that, with some reservations.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The safety is lowered on the draw. That doesn't add any time at all to the draw and fire process. By the time you are up on target, the safety is already off.
 

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