retro AR: help put together shopping list

Coyote33

Coyote33

Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
33,322
Likes
12,218
Feedback: 3 / 0 / 0
I want an AR at some point. When the time is right, I want to be able to just do it, so figure I may as well gather info ahead of time.

What I want is a sort of "retro" looking AR, with the triangular front stock, carry handle, and other basics of the "old school" AR, without giving up some of the improvements over the years. In other words, I don't think I want to go to the "slab side" receiver, but then again, am open to getting schooled on this. How can I get some or most of the "look", yet keep some of the more modern fixes?

What I want to use this for would be strictly plinking/target shooting and maybe a groundhog or two or something like that. I don't really intend to compete or anything, so the fancy scopes and bull barrels need not apply here.

Thanks.

reference:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=421110&postcount=4

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=421902&postcount=14

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=337101&postcount=6

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=142368&postcount=11

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=201091&postcount=32

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=234701&postcount=63 (THIS FIRST ONE IS WHAT I'M TALKIN' ABOUT!!!)



Heck, in reading through some of these threads, maybe just the basic Bushmaster XM-15 with the older style stock and handguard would do it. I might prefer to build it myself if it were easy enough and I could get better stuff for same price or better price!


Thanks again.


Edit: Should this go under the Firearms forum instead of equipment? The post I based it off of was in here and that "retro pictures" thread was in "general", so that was why I put it here.
 
Last edited:
SP1's are still available. You pay quite a bit for 'em but they're out there.

Mine with the 3 prong that I installed.
HPIM2991.jpg


HPIM2992.jpg


HPIM2994.jpg
 
Again, I might like some of the modern improvements, but would forgo the fancy stocks, sights, rails, lights, and other doodads for a real nice, basic rifle which performs well. If it could have a few "retro touches", all the better. I am not going for the total classic experience. If I wanted that, I'd just save up and buy an early model. I just want to recreate the basic experience in an updated, modern platform. Where do I begin? I guess the lower receiver, right? For that, I might like to see if there will be another group buy. How about stock? What else?
 
Have you checked out AR15.com, they have an excellent section on retro rifles. That's where I got all the info I needed about the CAR-15 in my avatar. IMO, it's the ultimate weapon. 2 Pos. collapsible stock, no bells and whistles, light(5.5lbs) and accurate. Not to mention, a real blast to shoot.

I'll be adding a VFG and tac light in the near future, but that's it.
 
cbrburns said:
Have you checked out AR15.com, they have an excellent section on retro rifles. That's where I got all the info I needed about the CAR-15 in my avatar. IMO, it's the ultimate weapon. 2 Pos. collapsible stock, no bells and whistles, light(5.5lbs) and accurate. Not to mention, a real blast to shoot.

I'll be adding a VFG and tac light in the near future, but that's it.
Click to expand...
Details. And pictures! [smile] Please?
 
I think your budget, your build skills, and location will impact your options/best choice.

For instance if you have a fair amount of cash available, live in MASS, and don't want to or can't wait to build your own (ban rules being followed, of course), you could go to Zero Hour Arms and buy the M61A1 clone that they have hanging up for $1,400.00.

If you have more time/patience, you could buy a pre-ban lower for about 700 bucks and an upper with all the features and put the two together. Total cost might run you100-1100.

If you live outside MASS, you can build what ever you like (NFA rules applying), or pay less for an existing pre-ban.

In terms of what you’re looking for, based on the links you reference you seem to be looking for the M16A1 configuration.

That will get you the solid stock, triangular hand guards, and birdcage flash suppressor. The A1 also comes with the forward assist ( the tear drop shaped button/plunger on the right side of the upper that is used to force the bolt carrier into battery). The slab-side (i.e. no raised ridges above and around the magazine release button) is standard on the colt AR's. To get that Fence (the raised ridges) you need to buy another brand. The A1 also has the single piece carrying handle, with the sight adjustment mechanism attached to it. With the A2, the adjustable sight is actually a separate component from the handle itself (see the botton rifle in the last link you included).

Just my thoughts.
 
I'm not so fussy nor rich that I need to be completely authentic. This isn't a Shelby Cobra rebuild for me. What I would rather do is a close approximation using some more modern substitutes. I want to keep things pretty simple, and have the least amount of moving or separate parts (ie:NOT the separate component adjustable sight) to lose, break, or fail.

Do they make a stock which has a storage compartment?


ranger4-7 said:
...In terms of what you’re looking for, based on the links you reference you seem to be looking for the M16A1 configuration.

That will get you the solid stock, triangular hand guards, and birdcage flash suppressor. The A1 also comes with the forward assist ( the tear drop shaped button/plunger on the right side of the upper that is used to force the bolt carrier into battery). The slab-side (i.e. no raised ridges above and around the magazine release button) is standard on the colt AR's. To get that Fence (the raised ridges) you need to buy another brand. The A1 also has the single piece carrying handle, with the sight adjustment mechanism attached to it. With the A2, the adjustable sight is actually a separate component from the handle itself (see the botton rifle in the last link you included)...
Click to expand...



edited to add:
OK.

I want:
solid stock (with compartment, if possible)
triangular hand guards (unless a real good reason is made not to)
"birdcage" flash suppressor
forward assist is fine
single piece handle with attached sight adjustment
medium length barrel (not 16, but not 22-24 either, so maybe 18-20)

Could someone please elaborate on the "slab side" versus "fence" concept?

Does anyone have something which approximates this setup?
 
Last edited:
ITs a Colt sporter lower with a SP1 Carbine upper. what should the gun look like?
 
Coyote33:
To understand the difference in the "fence" compare the photo that stinx posted above, the my M4 clone below. Notice that on stinx's lower, there is no raised area at the top (where the upper and lower meet), and around the magazine release button. That is what ia known as a slabside. In the photo below, there is the raised area both along the seem of the upper and lower, as well as around the magazine release. That's what knwon as a full fence. The earliest M16's had the slab side. Transitional models had a partial fence, meaning the raised area along the top was there, but not the section surrounding the magazine release. For a more detailed comparison, you should check out the retro rifles section of AR15.com.
AR15s002.jpg
 
stinx said:
ITs a Colt sporter lower with a SP1 Carbine upper. what should the gun look like?
Click to expand...

The best way to find out is to check AR15.com like Ranger said. In the retro section, there is a database you can compare your serial number to. It will give you all the information you need to figure out the original configuration of the rifle. A true SP1 should start with serial # SPXXXXXX, I'm not sure if sporters were the same.
 
Does this fence serve any structural or other purpose? I don't really care one way or the other, so in that case, maybe the partial would be a good compromise.
 
Coyote33 said:
Does this fence serve any structural or other purpose? I don't really care one way or the other, so in that case, maybe the partial would be a good compromise.
Click to expand...
These were weak areas prone to failure so they were reinforced.
 
OK.


solid stock (with compartment, if possible)
triangular front stock (unless a real good reason is made not to)
"birdcage" flash suppressor
forward assist
single piece handle with attached sight adjustment
medium length barrel (not 16, but not 22-24 either, so maybe 18-20)
full cage
 
Coyote33 said:
OK.


solid stock (with compartment, if possible)
triangular front stock (unless a real good reason is made not to)
"birdcage" flash suppressor
forward assist
single piece handle with attached sight adjustment
medium length barrel (not 16, but not 22-24 either, so maybe 18-20)
full cage
Click to expand...

Try handling a rifle with the different hand guards, see which one you like before you do your build. But other than that, it looks pretty retro to me. The upper you're looking for would be the A1 configuration. Lots of Colt SP1's out there fit the bill.
 
I was told the fence was to prevent inadvertenly droping the mag if something touched the exposed mag release
 
cbrburns said:
Try handling a rifle with the different hand guards, see which one you like before you do your build. But other than that, it looks pretty retro to me. The upper you're looking for would be the A1 configuration. Lots of Colt SP1's out there fit the bill.
Click to expand...

Does that have the partial "fence"?

stinx said:
I was told the fence was to prevent inadvertenly droping the mag if something touched the exposed mag release
Click to expand...

This sounds like a legitimate purpose/use. So is it this, or to add strength? Or both? Or are these just guesses? If, as an earlier post alludes to, these are more costly, then I would have no problem gaining strength and an "inadvertent dropping of the mag", while saving a few bucks and not changing the looks a whole ton.
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about choosing slab side, partial or full fence.

The reality of the matter is that if you are building your own, you'll most likely wind up with the full fence. I say that because partial fences appeared on early colt models, and are as rare as hen's teeth. In 20+ years of collecting, I’ve never seen one in person. Those that the retro guys show off have generally been modified full fence models where they ground off the lower portion of the fence to create a very specific model. Or, they've purchased reproduction lowers made by vendors like No Dak Spud (NDS) and built the rifle around the receiver. Given that you're in mass, why go through that trouble for authenticity for a rifle you have to make post ban (thereby blowing the authenticity)?

If you find a pre-ban lower that you wish to build on to, it's likely to be a PWA, Olympic Arms or other manufacturer that entered the game in the 80's (roughly). At that point I believe all but Colt had full fence on all of their lowers.

If you are building on a post ban lower, I believe they are all full fence these days.

Basically, the way to get a slab side is to buy an assembled Colt. If you find a pre-ban Colt lower with the slab side, you'll pay a premium for it, probably so much that the additional cost of an upper will put you right into the price range of the complete PWA that I referenced being at Zero Hour.

In terms of why it was added, it may have been a combo of strengthening the lower and protecting the magazine release, but I wouldn’t worry about it. Unless you’re going the beat the snot out of the lower, it’s unlikely you could cause it to fail if you wanted to. If the lower failed, I doubt it would be due the lack of a partial or full fence.
 
Last edited:
Would this $69 A2 upper be a good choice for this?

A2 or A3??

Any other leads to parts would be great and most helpful. Especially helpful would be if you see a sale in the future on something which fits here, as I will be building this a little at a time, as I see specials/sales on the ideal parts.
 
Does anyone have a list of all parts required to build an AR, maybe broken down by "group" (lower, upper, trigger group, etc.)?

I just want to be able to piece a rifle together as economically as possible, taking advantage of sales and deals when I can.

Does this even make sense? My final product is something with "retro style furniture", and some of the niceties picked up along the way. I don't intend to compete with this, but am interested in plinking and target shooting and maybe hunting. At some point, I may like a 9mm configuration as well.

Thanks for any help or advice. If I am off-base or heading in the wrong direction, I'm open to criticism and ideas.
 
I did just what you want to do, I think.


nes46right%20800x179.jpg



nes46left%20800x226.jpg




Lower came from first NES buy
LPK from NES buy
stripped A1 upper with sights came from an NES member
NOS 1969-70 Colt chrome lined barrel, with triangular handguard cap, barrel nut, FSB, and front sight, came from a friend in town
cocking lever from an NES member
bolt and other misc parts I ordered directly from RRA
original GI stock, grip and forearms I got from Numrich.

I've got less than $600 in it. YMMV.
 
Pretty much, Pilgrim![thumbsup]

The reason I want the parts listing is because I am unfamiliar with all of this, and want to be able to shop for bargain bin bits and pieces as they come available. I know a lot of people like to "upgrade", and are then willing to part out their old stuff. Old stuff would be just fine by me as long as it is not junky stuff. Therein lies the rub, I guess. Thanks.
 
Coyote33

Here's the headers I've been using to track build progress for my ARs. It's not complete, and there is some duplication. As an example, I list 'Lower Parts Kit' and Grip, trigger & safety, in case I'm putting something different than what was in the LPK. Bolt & bolt carrier are separate because I have more bolts assigned to barrels than I have carriers right now, that sort of thing.

LOWER
Trigger
LPK
Grip
Safety
Stock
Buffer
Rear Sling mount
Accessories

UPPER
Barrel
Bolt
Bolt Carrier
FSB/Gas Block
Forend
Muzzle Device
Front Sight
Rear Sight
Scope Mount
Rings
Optics
Charging Handle
Front Sling mount
Accessories

Hope it helps - there are a lot of parts to keep track of, and I've discovered I've missed one mid-build before. I think the most distinctive part of the early A1 look is the A1 upper with the old style sight, and the triangle handguards. Most people, including myself, won't be able to pick out an A1 lower or grip without another A2 there to compare to.

If you can wade through the new part commercial auctions, Gunbroker gets used AR parts up for sale. Also the Equipment Exchange at AR15.com, but stuff goes fast there. If you have a local shop that does upgrade work on AR rifles, they will sometimes get parts discarded in an upgrade that they just want to get rid of.

Good Luck!!
 

Similar threads

  • Poll
Rifle cases ,double safe, converted closet
Replies
8
Views
206
Yotacrawler
Yotacrawler
Rifle scope mounting
Replies
9
Views
351
straightshooterjake
S
Vortex Crossfire scout scope for Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle-mount height?
Replies
0
Views
170
SigSlinger508
S
Redfield Revolution Rifle Scope
Replies
7
Views
326
paul73
paul73
Modifying preban uzi mags for AR9 colt lower
Replies
2
Views
69
Kevin_NH
Kevin_NH
Back
Top Bottom