retro AR: help put together shopping list

KMM696 said:
Coyote33

Here's the headers I've been using to track build progress for my ARs. It's not complete, and there is some duplication. As an example, I list 'Lower Parts Kit' and Grip, trigger & safety, in case I'm putting something different than what was in the LPK. Bolt & bolt carrier are separate because I have more bolts assigned to barrels than I have carriers right now, that sort of thing.

LOWER
Trigger
LPK
Grip
Safety
Stock
Buffer
Rear Sling mount
Accessories

UPPER
Barrel
Bolt
Bolt Carrier
FSB/Gas Block
Forend
Muzzle Device
Front Sight
Rear Sight
Scope Mount
Rings
Optics
Charging Handle
Front Sling mount
Accessories

Hope it helps - there are a lot of parts to keep track of, and I've discovered I've missed one mid-build before. I think the most distinctive part of the early A1 look is the A1 upper with the old style sight, and the triangle handguards. Most people, including myself, won't be able to pick out an A1 lower or grip without another A2 there to compare to.

If you can wade through the new part commercial auctions, Gunbroker gets used AR parts up for sale. Also the Equipment Exchange at AR15.com, but stuff goes fast there. If you have a local shop that does upgrade work on AR rifles, they will sometimes get parts discarded in an upgrade that they just want to get rid of.

Good Luck!!
Click to expand...

That looks helpful. What are the components of the LPK? Or are they usually all together as one?

Are the sling mounts typically NOT a part of the fore end grip and buttstock?

What changes in the sights from the A1 to the A2? I wouldn't mind an improvement, as long as it is not at a higher cost and does not detract from the form and function.

The upgrade path of others is what I am hoping to use as a source of an inexpensive plinker. If any of you have anything to get rid of to help out a fellow NES'r, by all means please reply.
 
Comments inside.....

Coyote33 said:
That looks helpful. What are the components of the LPK? Or are they usually all together as one?

A standard LPK will include everything attached to the lower receiver, except the buffer assembly and stock. I routinely replace the standard safety with an ambi or left hand one (I'm a lefty), and one of my standard triggers from an LPK was replaced by a White Oak one. Buy a decent LPK, install it all, worry about upgrades later.

Are the sling mounts typically NOT a part of the fore end grip and buttstock?

On a normal AR15, the sling mounts will be part of the buttstock and the bottom of the front sight base. Since some of the rifles I'm working or worked on have gas blocks instead of FSBs, and alternate attachment points for the rear sling, a few extra categories crept into my list. Ignore them as needed

What changes in the sights from the A1 to the A2? I wouldn't mind an improvement, as long as it is not at a higher cost and does not detract from the form and function.

The only functional difference between an A1 and A2 upper receiver is the machine work done for their respective sights, which are not interchangeable. The earlier A1 sight has a windage adjustment at the rear, elevation adjusts at the front sight post. It's the sort of sight you zero once, and forget about. There is a flip aperture in the rear sight, which IIRC chooses between 0-200 yards and 200+. (It's been a while since I owned one.)
Click on A1 Receiver:
554.jpg

The A2 is the current iron sight - added a quick elevation & windage change wheel at the rear sight. Zeroing is still done at the front sight post, after that yardage changes are dialed in at the rear. Better target sight, if you want to be dialing in windage/elevation changes, but more complicated, more moving parts. Still has the flip aperture.
Click on A2 Receiver:
552.jpg

Most flexible option is a flattop upper receiver. There are a multitude of companies that make sights that clamp on, and it's the easiest upper to add optics to later.

flatTopUpper.jpg

The upgrade path of others is what I am hoping to use as a source of an inexpensive plinker. If any of you have anything to get rid of to help out a fellow NES'r, by all means please reply.
Click to expand...

Hope that helps clear up any confusion my list left. Piecing together a rifle can be done affordably, if you're not too picky and willing to wait for the right parts. Putting a lower together doesn't require any special tools - punches, screwdrivers, hammer, that sort of thing. Attaching a barrel to an upper isn't terribly difficult, but does require some special tools.

I didn't notice which state you're from - if you're in MA (or one of the other states where the assault weapons ban is still alive and well [angry]), there are some additional considerations in building to avoid legal complications. There are a couple threads in the MA Law section of the forum that get into that mess.

Keep an eye out for complete used upper receiver assemblies - a lot of people will sell the whole thing rather than strip it down to parts.
 
I routinely replace the standard safety with an ambi or left hand one (I'm a lefty), and one of my standard triggers from an LPK was replaced by a White Oak one. ...
Click to expand...

So, have a "standard" safety and "standard" trigger you want to give away? (-:
 
KMM696 said:
Coyote33

Here's the headers I've been using to track build progress for my ARs. It's not complete, and there is some duplication. As an example, I list 'Lower Parts Kit' and Grip, trigger & safety, in case I'm putting something different than what was in the LPK. Bolt & bolt carrier are separate because I have more bolts assigned to barrels than I have carriers right now, that sort of thing.

LOWER
Trigger
LPK
Grip
Safety
Stock
Buffer
Rear Sling mount
Accessories

UPPER
Barrel
Bolt
Bolt Carrier
FSB/Gas Block
Forend
Muzzle Device
Front Sight
Rear Sight
Scope Mount
Rings
Optics
Charging Handle
Front Sling mount
Accessories
Click to expand...


Can anyone help break this down further?

Is the trigger alone? I have heard of "trigger kit" also.

LPK=???

I see "buffer", but also hear of a buffer tube. Same thing?

Bolt and bolt carrier are listed here. Are these together what is known as a BCG?

The charging handle, is that part of its own "kit", or is that a single piece?

This will help me understand things better, and allow me to be able to shop the classifieds for used parts better.

Thanks.
 
Coyote33 said:
Can anyone help break this down further?

Is the trigger alone? I have heard of "trigger kit" also.

A standard Lower Parts Kit will include a standard AR trigger. There are upgrade options out there that just include the trigger parts, such as the RRA NM trigger. Better triggers are nice, but not necessary, and usually at a minimum cost twice what an entire LPK sells for.

LPK=???

Lower Parts Kit - LINK to a typical kit, with an included parts list. Everything you need to finish a stripped lower except a buffer, buffer tube, buffer spring and stock.

I see "buffer", but also hear of a buffer tube. Same thing?

No - buffer tube (official name is 'receiver extension') is the tube attached to the back of the lower receiver that the stock mounts over, and the buffer (effectively a weight) and buffer spring ride inside of. There are several different types of buffer tube, depending on which type stock is installed, carbine or rifle (simplified somewhat, there are more options than that). There are carbine and rifle sized buffer and buffer springs, as well.

Bolt and bolt carrier are listed here. Are these together what is known as a BCG?

Yes - the complete BCG contains a bolt carrier, bolt assembly and a gas key and fasteners. I had them separated in the original list because I had bolts and carriers from different sources.

The charging handle, is that part of its own "kit", or is that a single piece?

The charging handle might be included if you bought a complete upper assembly, but is usually sold separately.

This will help me understand things better, and allow me to be able to shop the classifieds for used parts better.

Thanks.
Click to expand...



Responses above...

LINK to a nice diagram of the whole rifle from Fulton Armory.

Actually figuring out which parts you want/need for an AR might be tougher than actually putting it together. There are a lot of options out there, which is great, but complicates planning quite a bit. Nothing on the AR is permanent, so if you don't like the way yours ends up, you can always change out what doesn't work for you. Some people will only own own one rifle, and change it as their need change. I've found I'm more in the build a rifle for each specific purpose camp, which is fun, but gets expensive.
 
Thank you so much. I'll have to read this tonight. My intent is for a "plinker", but with a little more power and accuracy than a .22lr. I may hunt with it at some future point. I have no plans on competition, so ultimate accuracy is not "as" important. Reliability is also a plus.
 
I just saw something at Century Arms, but it is not available in MA. (WHY?)

This is what I would like to try to emulate:
c15-RI1619-Angle-1024x400.gif

c15-RI1619-Right-1024x280.gif

c15-RI1619-Left-1024x280.gif
 
Coyote33 said:
How's this look?
552740.jpg


M16 / AR15 Rifle Buttstock Set The price seems right at $18.65.

Does anyone ever use the "trap door"? And if you do, for what?

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=204890A&catid=9864
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=204900A&catid=9864
I also see a left hand and a right hand handguard. Do you need both, or is this for lefty's and righty's?
Click to expand...

.mil has cleaning kits to go in the trap door. It's also useful if you're building a heavy barreled rifle, and want to add weight to the buttstock. The trapdoor buttplate is a little fatter and grippier, the non-trapdoor is thinner, and (I think) a little slipperier on the shoulder.

The A1 style handguard has a left & right side, where with the A2 the 2 pieces are identical. Not a bad price for a set, and I like the A1 length stock better. In 'fair' condition, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the plastic around the handguard vent holes on top was broken. It's an easy to damage area, but really will have no effect other than cosmetic.

Note the A1 grip doesn't have that single fingergroove that the A2 does. Another personal preference issue, not a big deal either way.
 
Thanks for the heads up on the "fair condition". I totally overlooked that. Do you really think they would sell something broken? I'd call that "broken" condition, not "fair". Fair to me means "well used" and implies maybe scratched and worn. Those are not a problem here, but broken is.
 
I got my stock and grips from gunpartscorp. They are serviceable, nothing broken, but dirty. The buttstock had rack numbers painted on it.....real GI.

I cleaned them off with some elbow grease and a careful dose of mineral spirits. The plastic all cleaned up well but definitely has a used look to it, which is the look I wanted anyway. I'm keeping it that way.

I actually bought new plastic from rockriver arms and it looks too perfect, so I didn't use it.

For any questions you have about what parts you need check out the rockriver website. They have a schematic with every part numbers and labeled.


nes46right%20800x179.jpg
 
I would go this route myself, Colt A1 slab side upper, smooth chrome bolt, A1, no trap door stock.
you can't have that in MA because of our crappy AWB law. The real flash hider and bayo lug are no no's here.
Click to expand...
Even pre bans?
 

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if you want the original military look, black isn't correct.

Yeah, the original was 'black' but it's not like the jet black of the repro stuff....it's got a sort of dark greenish tint to it...not Olive Drab but you can see that it's not truly, really black, black.

It's the best I can describe it,sorry.
 
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Northridge Intl. has A1 sets, listed as 'used' - not sure what that means, exactly. I've bought other stuff from him that was better than expected. Maybe drop him an email and see what condition they are really in.
 
Kenny474 said:
Here is about all you will need for a Retro AR, as it's actually an M16A1 parts kit. I can't remember if your in Mass or not, so you'll have to find a way around that.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-colt-m16a1-parts-kit.aspx?a=643391
You need a lower and a disconnector, though I would buy a AR LPK, and the barrel is in the white from what I was told. But it seems to be a good basis for a Retro build.
Click to expand...

You could always just buy my Colt SP1 preban lower.
 
Just saw an entire rifle for $679.95 at http://www.classicarms.us/ . I know the flash hider and bayonet lug are no-go's in Mass., but can this be had, or made without those to be compliant? I imagine without those items, the price could come in even lower, correct? Again, I don't want the fancy optics, the fancy stocks, the forward grip, the lug, the hider, or most of the other currently popular items. I just want a basic AR which accepts older magazines, and can shoot halfway decent.
 
Coyote33 said:
Just saw an entire rifle for $679.95 at http://www.classicarms.us/ . I know the flash hider and bayonet lug are no-go's in Mass., but can this be had, or made without those to be compliant? I imagine without those items, the price could come in even lower, correct?
Click to expand...

Probably not cheaper on that rifle - you're going to be paying someone to disable the lug and adding a compensator/brake, which will have to be pinned/welded/soldered (the barrel is threaded). Century Arms doesn't do custom work.....they hit that price by starting with used A1 parts kits and having minimal QA. Luckily for them, ARs aren't that difficult to assemble correctly - but if the barrel extension or front sight base were installed by them, I wouldn't touch it.

A used MA ready A1 might be found on Gunbroker or gunsamerica used from the federal assault ban years, but finding a current manufacturer that lists one might be difficult. A local shop that does custom work might be worth calling to see what they would charge to order and modify the Century AR, or what it would take for them to build an A1 with no lug and unthreaded barrel.
 
Again, I have no need for a lug nor a threaded barrel, nor a brake. Just the basics, with the look (front and rear stock, and sights) of the older style.
 
why not buy a mass compliant model and replace the hand guards with the triangular retro handguards....I have seen them for as little as 25.00. Dont want a break, how about a varmit model with a nice target crown on the barrel.
 
a white oak service rifle *or* similar upper, throw it on your lower of choice w / A2 stock. that's how i roll. [smile]
 

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