S 2265 (aka HB4285, 4278, 4121) out of Senate Ways and Means (FID Suitability)

[PaulD]

Hey we should make sure we take note of Rosenthal's Stance on pepper spray which is grossly unpopular period. Next time he runs his mouth at some hearing we inevitably all attend we can throw it back in his face to undermine him. I know it kind of goes without saying... for some reason I hate that guy more than even the politicians who push their shit. Maybe it is because he truly is just a rich douchebag who uses money to push a personal agenda, gets to speak first, etc etc etc.

Mike

With credit to to Mike S.....

"So Mr. Rosenthal, I read that you're pro rapist. How do you justify that stance to the ladies in the audience?"

 

[jsh]

20, private sales only at dealers: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/188/Senate/S2265/Amendment/Senate/20/Text

Ms. Creem moved that the bill be amended in section 27 by adding at the end thereof the following:-“Provided that a sale or transfer under this section may be conducted and take place at the location of a dealer licensed pursuant to section 122, who shall transmit the information required by this section for purchases and sales to the department of criminal justice information services. A licensed dealer may charge the seller a fee not to exceed $25 for each sale or transfer submitted on behalf of the seller to the department of criminal justice information services.”

 

[mbullism]

Seriously, please. I am out of town with limited internet capability.

Where do we stand on this?

there were 63 amendments filed, some good some bad... the sorting continues before Thursdays presumed vote

 

[LoginName]

Seriously, please. I am out of town with limited internet capability.

Where do we stand on this?

Sorry. [sad2]

But seriously... it's impossible to determine at this point.

The bill is scheduled for debate on Thursday.

What happens then, or afterwards is up in the air.

 

[GlockJock]

I'm new here but can definitely see how some folks like to blame GOAL for not having some voodoo magic to change things.
They play right into the hands of the anties. How about you quit the ranting on here and make some calls?
I plan to join GOAL very shortly. The more members the better.

Hi Bob and welcome to the forum. Awesome people here.
Bob: you "Plan to join" GOAL? And how about Comm2A?
Bob, respectfully, they should have been the 2nd and 3rd thing you joined, right after your gun club made you join the NRA (if you weren't already).
I have a monthly donation set up (recurring via PayPal, it's SO easy) to Comm2A and I'm a member of (plus donate every month to) GOAL, I always buy a ticket to their fundraiser raffles (whether I'm interested in what's being raffled or not! LOL), and I encourage every gun owner to PLEASE $UPPORT GOAL.....
Even just the price of a small Dunkies coffee every month, from every licensed gun owner in Mass, would put over a HALF MILLION BUCKS in their warchest - every month!

There is NOTHING that I can think of that is more crucial and deserving of the support from 2nd Amendment supporters, in this hellhole liberal state, than Goal and Comm2A!!!
Nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

your main concern here is GOAL?!?!?
your legislators are ****ing you all over the place and your main concern is the one body that actually organizes people to oppose their attacks on liberty??

This!
+1

 

[oldsoldier29]

GOAL sold us out!

Seriously. If yoy think that, you're free to leave. The only reason nothing had gone through yet is because of them, and us reaching out. Without them, we have NO voice or representation. Kind of life the nra. You may hate them, but without them, we'd be under AWB #2.

Edit: just realized this was sarcasm. Didn't register as such on the phone

 

[Garys]

20, private sales only at dealers: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/188/Senate/S2265/Amendment/Senate/20/Text

Unless I misread it (which is possible) this is add on language, there is nothing about striking the existing language. Which I understand to mean that you can use the not yet in existence "web portal" or go through a FFL. The key word in her amendment being "may".

 

[GlockJock]

What is the difference between GOAL and MOMS ?
MOMS: march,protest,talk with people, bake sales, shirt sales,ect ect all this just to take away your rights and yes they use kids for this
GOAL: /NRA :???????????
Why is the NRA not here in mass ?
and EddieCoyle I paid for memberships and I paid for training for my wife ,son and my self from GOAL (But thanks to your comments to me before I no long wish to be part of GOAL I will still support GOA as I said before thanks for your help /

Huh?
So lemme get this straight....If I'm exercising my freedom by participating in this FORUM ((Forum:noun: forum; plural noun: forums; plural noun: fora
1. a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged))

...and another member of this FORUM who him or herself happens to be on the board of directors at GOAL, NRA, GOA, Comm2A, (or AA? or AAA? whatever), says/posts/texts/PMs/etc something to me that irritates, bothers or pisses me off, then I should just quit whatever worthy organization this FORUM member is affiliated with? If another FORUM member happens to own, say, Richardson's Ice Cream, then I should never buy another large cup of Rocky Road (which is, by the way, ALMOST better than sex with my still-hot-at-45 wife) there ever again??

There was a kid back at the Ryan Playground on Dorchester Ave back around 1970 who used to flip baseball cards against the wall with us in first grade... and, when he would lose 3 or 4 flips in a row, would get up and grab his cards and storm away, pouting, intentionally stepping on a few of his losing ones (Wow! Nolan Ryan was on the Mets??) as he stomped his way toward his house on Harbor View Street.

Was that you??

 

[GlockJock]

Goddamn people! The last 3 pgs have been nothing except pissing and moaning about GOAL. Guess what... Jim isnt the great and powerful Oz. Everything in this state is an uphill battle. The D's are gonna say bend over whenever/ wherever they can. I atleast prefer a little lube to ease the pain. Fight with the liberal, crunchy, commies in power. In fighting only helps their cause.
rant over. I accept a vacation.

This! ...But bring your cell phone and make calls on vacation too! ..I'm gonna!!
+1

 

[GlockJock]

You could all go to Boston, stand on the State House steps and scream "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED". Which is more than a lot of GOAL's critics have done in terms of being more than keyboard commandos.

GOAL has done a good job both inside and outside the State House. Especially considering what has happened in states like New York, Connecticut, and Colorado, and what could have happened here.

After this is done, maybe GOAL can nibble away at some of the worst provisions of current MA laws. Bit by bit.

This!!!
And a reprint ((below)) of what I just posted earlier, regarding the support for GOAL/Comm2A:

((Every time I look at the number of members of this AWESOME forum we call NES, I always ask myself the same question:
"WHERE ARE ALL THE OTHER THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND (plus!!) MASSACHUSETTS GUN OWNERS AND WHY AREN'T THEY HERE WITH US OR ACTIVE MEMBERS OF GOAL?"

And, better yet, why aren't they, at the very LEAST, all donating even just the price of a SMALL cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee to Comm2A and GOAL every month?? (I do it!! Does everyone here??)
If 300,000+ gun owners give a couple of bucks to monthly to GOAL and Comm2A, that's SIX HUNDRED GRAND PER MONTH....TO EACH!!

$600,000???
That would buy a lot of the free lunches, dinners and drinks these fat legislative swine Reps and Senators love so dearly. Hell, Eddie's on the Board of Directors at GOAL. Take just two months of these newly received donations, invite the fat bastard DeLeo out to Northboro for dinner some Friday night, get him absolutely sauced, grab his car keys and stuff his glove compartment with the cash.
Then whenever his brutal hangover wears off he'll open the glovebox, find the gift with a nice note from Jim and Eddie...and from that point forward he'd be about as "Anti Gun" as Rand Paul.
Sarcasm? Sure...but you get my point. There are over 300 THOUSAND other gun owners in this hellhole, yet only a little more than 1% of them have ever read my sarcastic posts about the "CommonPuke of LiberChusetts". You're telling me we can't even get that up to TEN PERCENT?... FIVE????
To quote what our kids are saying these days: "DUDE!!! WTF?????" ))

 

[ggboy]

16 days.
ggboy

 

[GlockJock]

I too serve on the GOAL Board and confirm that everything EC has shared in this thread is accurate and does represent the discussions and the process. The ONLY power that GOAL brings is the ability to see the train coming and get the word out to mobilize.

I have found a significant number of gun owners when I have discussed this with them admit that they have not written a letter, made a phone call, or done anything else but expect GOAL to fix this issue for them.... and when I ask if they are GOAL members they admit they are not and sometimes say they will never be because we have not succeeded enough in their eyes.

GOAL Board meetings are open to the membership... join, participate, learn and if you are the one with the magic formula that we have apparently willfully and negligently ignored then please do share it with us.

This! And I'll reprint YET AGAIN what I've been saying, every time I hear someone slamming GOAL:

((Every time I look at the number of members of this AWESOME forum we call NES, I always ask myself the same question:
"WHERE ARE ALL THE OTHER THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND (plus!!) MASSACHUSETTS GUN OWNERS AND WHY AREN'T THEY HERE WITH US OR ACTIVE MEMBERS OF GOAL?"
And, better yet, why aren't they, at the very LEAST, all donating even just the price of a SMALL cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee to Comm2A and GOAL every month?? (I do it!! Does everyone here??)
If 300,000+ gun owners give a couple of bucks to monthly to GOAL and Comm2A, that's SIX HUNDRED GRAND PER MONTH....TO EACH!!
$600,000???
That would buy a lot of the free lunches, dinners and drinks these fat legislative swine Reps and Senators love so dearly. Hell, Eddie's on the Board of Directors at GOAL. Take just two months of these newly received donations, invite the fat bastard DeLeo out to Northboro for dinner some Friday night, get him absolutely sauced, grab his car keys and stuff his glove compartment with the cash.
Then whenever his brutal hangover wears off he'll open the glovebox, find the gift with a nice note from Jim and Eddie...and from that point forward he'd be about as "Anti Gun" as Rand Paul.
Sarcasm? Sure...but you get my point. There are over 300 THOUSAND other gun owners in this hellhole, yet only a little more than 1% of them have ever read my sarcastic posts about the "CommonPuke of LiberChusetts". You're telling me we can't even get that up to TEN PERCENT?... FIVE????
To quote what our kids are saying these days: "DUDE!!! WTF?????" ))

 

[71montess]

Why did sooo few of us attend the hearings and the event on the steps of the State House ??? Keyboard commandos and ambivalent gun owners.

 

[GlockJock]

Thanks Bob, I hate this ****en state.

We all do. But we choose to live here, therefore we choose to accept the fact that we have to fight even HARDER than almost anywhere else.
Keep up the good fight>

 

[GlockJock]

“This would deregulate pepper spray and mace and I don’t see why we would do that,” Rosenthal said.
**** him, complete tool

I understand your confusion and concerns, Mr. Rosenthal.
If I were you, Mr. Rosenthal, I'd respectfully request that you ask Amy Lord her position on this issue. This might help to clarify your thoughts on it.
You remember the name, yes? She can be reached at St. Aloysius Cemetery out in Springfield...the beautiful young girl abducted from the South Boston street in broad daylight, robbed and then stabbed to death, brutally slaughtered by a MULTIPLE TIME OFFENDER SCUMBALL while she begged for her life....

I'm guessing she maybe, just maybe, MIGHT have thought about carrying even a tiny one or two shot container of CONDIMENT spray with her, on her walk to the gym that morning, had it not been for the onerous licensing requirements and ridiculous restrictions on it in your "Shiny Happy People" world you and all the other Shelter in Place Sheeple live in....

 

[Coyote33]

What is the possible reason for this?

Does the director desire some discretion to make up rules regarding which bows or crossbows can be used?

MA just can't get enough of executive discretion.

ETA: Oops, silly me, that is already the same wording in the current law. It looks like this amendment makes it legal for anyone to use a crossbow!

Current text:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIX/Chapter131/Section69

Instead of adding wording to "make it legal", why not just TAKE AWAY THE WORDING WHICH MAKES IT ILLEGAL? Huh? Huh?

 

[Friday]

aaannnd Harriet Chandler is her usual unavailable and aloof self....might be time for a visit.

 

[Coyote33]

Is anyone putting together a "layman's list" of what each amendment does?

Mike

It would first make sense to put all the laws in one place.

Read here: MA gun laws (poster). A forum member even WROTE THE BOOK on it! I think it is linked in the thread referenced here.


I thought it would be interesting to highlight sections and connect with strings and arrows conflicting or contradicting sections. What a bunch of spaghetti you'd have!

 

[GlockJock]

I've been at work all day.

There has only been one discussion ever between Jim Wallace and the DeLeo "camp" when Deleo asked to meet with Jim when the shit hit the fan after the H4121 was first released, before the first rewrite.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. GOAL offered no compromise - we simply let him know what was wrong with the bill. Everything that was wrong with it - including discretionary licensing.

Too bad you didn't tip me off that you were meeting with DeLeo....cuz then I could have given you the name AND address of his "secret" East Boston goumada (which is Sicilian for "Mistress") and OOPS, dammit, accidentally tweeted it to everyone on the Ways & Means committee too, not just you privately.

Hey, it's Massachusetts, right? Hardball politics really sucks here

 

[GlockJock]

my notes:
amendments to oppose:
#17, would remove the purpose exemption for police officers and retired officers, making the AWB not apply to them, why is this even in here?

Cuz, silly, cops - ALL cops - are GOOD GUYS!! Don't you know that??
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ault-counts/Y2084QFbka4HNk5XiIyLQO/story.html

 

[Whutmeworry]

It's not a loss if 95% of the time chiefs shift to Shall issue as judges tell them to go pound sand when restrictions are appealed even without counsel present. Boston can't say "we restricted his license because its Boston" or "we restricted her license because she's a first time applicant" with the current language with even a half honest judge... same for all the other red towns. Yes SOME may need counsel, but this SHOULD put an end to blanket policies.

Mike

Sorry Mike, can't help myself as a natural-born grammar LEO. It's counsel, not council, in the context in which you're using it.

For the record I agree with you though! I think the new language (assuming it doesn't change beyond what was already passed in the house) will force many Chiefs, in the end, to take the easy road. What this will end up being will be to grant FIDs/LTCs versus having to explain themselves in writing, and to explain themselves in front of a judge. Most aren't going to want to do this on a regular basis - it takes too much effort.

 

[Coyote33]

We need a ballsy legislator to go ahead and make an amendment to remove ALL exemptions from MA gun laws, and any other laws, for that matter. THEN, you will see how they really feel about these laws.

 

[jefftk]

Instead of adding wording to "make it legal", why not just TAKE AWAY THE WORDING WHICH MAKES IT ILLEGAL? Huh? Huh?

Ummm... gotta ask - did you read it (amendment and current law which I quoted)? Because that is exactly what it does

 

[wheelgun]

Please delete.

 

[Coyote33]

Ummm... gotta ask - did you read it (amendment and current law which I quoted)? Because that is exactly what it does

No, not really. So, they actually REMOVED WORDS? Simplified?

I may just have to go back and read what you put down there. Usually, they just add wording trying to dance around the old wording. Oh well, brain is still on vacation (and a rum/coke).

 

[jefftk]

Can someone please explain this to me?

(6) A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess: (i) a large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a license issued to an individual under said section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range; or (ii) a non-large capacity firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a license issued to a shooting club as provided under said section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a license issued to an individual under said section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range.

It seems to be saying an FID does not entitle possession of either a large capacity or a non-large capacity firearm, in other words an FID does not entitle possession of ANY firearm. What am I missing here?

ETA: Does it mean FID entitles non-large capacity rifle or shotgun only? I'm basing that on a guess that "firearm" means handgun?

I believe the explanation is that by definition, under MGL, a firearm is a handgun.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section121

 

[DrNVP]

Can someone please explain this to me?

(6) A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess: (i) a large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a license issued to a shooting club as provided under section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a license issued to an individual under said section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range; or (ii) a non-large capacity firearm or large capacity rifle or shotgun or large capacity feeding device therefor, except under a license issued to a shooting club as provided under said section 131 or under the direct supervision of a holder of a license issued to an individual under said section 131 at an incorporated shooting club or licensed shooting range.

It seems to be saying an FID does not entitle possession of either a large capacity or a non-large capacity firearm, in other words an FID does not entitle possession of ANY firearm. What am I missing here?

ETA: Does it mean FID entitles non-large capacity rifle or shotgun only? I'm basing that on a guess that "firearm" means handgun?

"firearm" = handgun in MA law terms

 

[jefftk]

No, not really. So, they actually REMOVED WORDS? Simplified?

I may just have to go back and read what you put down there. Usually, they just add wording trying to dance around the old wording. Oh well, brain is still on vacation (and a rum/coke).

I'll make it easy for you:

Here is what the amendment does:
MGL Ch. 131 Sec. 64 : Section 64 Automatic firearms, machine guns or [STRIKE=bows]bows[/STRIKE]; use of tracer ammunition

Section 64. A person shall not use for hunting purposes any type of full automatic firearm, machine gun or submachine gun, [STRIKE=or any crossbow,]or any crossbow,[/STRIKE] except as provided in section 69, nor use any tracer or incendiary ammunition for hunting or outdoor target shooting purposes except on a skeet, trap, or target range.

MGL Ch. 131 Sec 69

Section 69. A person shall not carry or use a bow and arrow or crossbow while hunting unless said bow and arrow or crossbow meet such requirements as may be set by rules and regulations which the director is hereby authorized to promulgate. Such rules and regulations shall prescribe general design, weight of pull, and type of bows and arrows or crossbow, and shall conform to standards generally accepted[STRIKE= for bows and arrows used] for bows and arrows used[/STRIKE] for hunting purposes. [STRIKE=Nothing in this paragraph shall permit the use of crossbows by any person other than a person who is permanently disabled such that the person cannot operate a conventional bow and arrow, as certified by a licensed physician. Any costs associated with obtaining the medical documentation, re-evaluation of the information or a second medical opinion are the responsibility of the applicant claiming a permanent disability. The issuance of a crossbow permit under this section shall be subject to rules and regulations promulgated by the director.[/]Nothing in this paragraph shall permit the use of crossbows by any person other than a person who is permanently disabled such that the person cannot operate a conventional bow and arrow, as certified by a licensed physician. Any costs associated with obtaining the medical documentation, re-evaluation of the information or a second medical opinion are the responsibility of the applicant claiming a permanent disability. The issuance of a crossbow permit under this section shall be subject to rules and regulations promulgated by the director.[/STRIKE]

 

[xero2099]

Sorry Mike, can't help myself as a natural-born grammar LEO. It's counsel, not council, in the context in which you're using it.

For the record I agree with you though! I think the new language (assuming it doesn't change beyond what was already passed in the house) will force many Chiefs, in the end, to take the easy road. What this will end up being will be to grant FIDs/LTCs versus having to explain themselves in writing, and to explain themselves in front of a judge. Most aren't going to want to do this on a regular basis - it takes too much effort.

If this does indeed get passed I would love to see how Boston and Brookline defend themselves

 

[Coyote33]

I'll make it easy for you:

Here is what the amendment does:
MGL Ch. 131 Sec. 64 : Section 64 Automatic firearms, machine guns or [STRIKE=bows]bows[/STRIKE]; use of tracer ammunition


MGL Ch. 131 Sec 69

Nice! And thanks. I hadn't gone back and re-read it yet.

Now, if they could only add .22 Mag, and the .17 rimfires wherever there is language about using only rimfire .22LR.; and so on.