ShotShow 2024

ThePreBanMan said:
Like the F-35 I suppose.... what has become a - oh what is it up to now, a 1.7 trillion dollar fighter program... Complexity isn't always better.
Click to expand...

Except that it is in the F-35’s case. And that’s $1.7 trillion for the whole life of the program.

But I’m done with debating U.S. military weapon innovation. Wrong thread.
 
PappyM3 said:
Are they not Sayeret Matkal? Yes, they are. And those aren’t marketing pictures, they’re just pictures of the unit in an article posted by agilite. Oh, plus the other pictures I posted, but you didn’t mention those.

More. Feel free to share some of them using Tavors.
View attachment 842334View attachment 842335
Click to expand...

No dog in this fight, but this was from June of last year:
www.joint-forces.com

Israel Acquiring Additional IWI Micro-TAVOR Rifles | Joint Forces News

The Israel Ministry of Defense is acquiring thousands of additional IWI-made Micro-TAVOR (X95) assault rifles for IDF infantry brigades.
www.joint-forces.com www.joint-forces.com

"The Israel Ministry of Defense is acquiring thousands of additional IWI-made Micro-TAVOR (X95) assault rifles for IDF infantry brigades."

So, Israeli military is continuing to invest in the platform... honestly it makes sense. The bullpup Tavor is an ideal platform for MOUT/Urban combat and mechanized infantry units. A suppressed micro Tavor will be superior to a suppressed shortened M4 in terms of reliability and LoP (or barrel length/effectiveness) and pack more punch than most PCC/sub guns. Just my .02.
 

Attachments

  • 1706050165815.png
    1706050165815.png
    2.9 MB · Views: 15
mav said:
No dog in this fight, but this was from June of last year:
www.joint-forces.com

Israel Acquiring Additional IWI Micro-TAVOR Rifles | Joint Forces News

The Israel Ministry of Defense is acquiring thousands of additional IWI-made Micro-TAVOR (X95) assault rifles for IDF infantry brigades.
www.joint-forces.com www.joint-forces.com

"The Israel Ministry of Defense is acquiring thousands of additional IWI-made Micro-TAVOR (X95) assault rifles for IDF infantry brigades."

So, Israeli military is continuing to invest in the platform...
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, but that’s all for conventional forces because they want an in-house weapon. They pride themselves on in-house equipment. I don’t fault them for that, but it doesn’t mean the Tavor is a better tool. Britain, Austria, Australia, Israel, all of them had bullpups for conventional and their SOF who had a choice, chose AR type weapons.
 
PappyM3 said:
Oh yeah, but that’s all for conventional forces because they want an in-house weapon. They pride themselves on in-house equipment. I don’t fault them for that, but it doesn’t mean the Tavor is a better tool. Britain, Austria, Australia, Israel, all of them had bullpups for conventional and their SOF who had a choice, chose AR type weapons.
Click to expand...

The Merkava MBT comes to mind... I'm sure we would have sold them M1 Abrams if they asked nicely.

Back in the day, I was a fan of the Kfir. It was really just a slightly improved, domestically produced French Mirage, but it was still a pretty good Gen 2.5/3 fighter.
 
Last edited:
PappyM3 said:
Are they not Sayeret Matkal? Yes, they are. And those aren’t marketing pictures, they’re just pictures of the unit in an article posted by agilite. Oh, plus the other pictures I posted, but you didn’t mention those.

More. Feel free to share some of them using Tavors.
View attachment 842334View attachment 842335
Click to expand...
Ehh. You google well, my friend. Did you google Sayeret Matkal and just take the first two pictures? Habibi, the first pick is from the Lebanon conflict in the mid-2000s, before X95 was adopted. The second pick is not even IDF!
 
drgrant said:
Yes, and by most judgments all of these substitues are failures in the marketplace both civilian or military. 🤣

Things like the Aug or Tavor failed to even reach 2nd tier benchmarks established by things like the FAL and G3.
Click to expand...
Both rifles preceded the development of the AR-15 platform. They're old as dirt! I would also point out that Aug was adopted in 1977 and still IS in use by the Austrian military, for which it was purposefully designed. The US success of Styer Aug has to be viewed through the lens of history: Bush Sr. banned Aug rifles from the US markets at the peak of rifles' popularity and modernity. By the time importation resumed, the US was in the middle of an AWB, and the sales suffered accordingly.

The fact of the matter remains: US infantrymen are issued an old, albeit reliable, platform. They are trained to minimize the platform's deficiencies to be effective, but it does not mean our soldiers do not deserve a better rifle! Alas, the Army will continue using M4 until they are all used up. I can only imagine the stockpiles of M4s. They are so large that the Afghanistan withdrawal fiasco hasn't triggered any "replenishment" orders. Ukraine war has not triggered any replenishment orders. Let's face it: US soldiers will be issued M4 for the next 100 years!
 
PappyM3 said:
😆 Israel still hasn’t apologized for intentionally shooting at one of our ships. Yeah, I don’t really care much about Israel other than the people and the position they’re in.
Click to expand...
Nor has the US apologized for using the ship to spy on IDF communications and provide intelligence to Egyptians in real time. The actions resulted in the deaths of hundreds of IDF soldiers.
 
38ExtraSpecial said:
Can’t wait to see what design S&W introduces that another company introduced at SHOT 2023
Click to expand...
Only thing that would make me jump at a new S&W product is if a DA/SA gun comes back preferably built on the CSX or Shield platform. However I’ll always default to my S&W 3913 for this role.
 
s&w3913 said:
Only thing that would make me jump at a new S&W product is if a DA/SA gun comes back preferably built on the CSX or Shield platform. However I’ll always default to my S&W 3913 for this role.
Click to expand...
Sadly, I don't think anything could get me back to buying brand new S&W products like in the good old days. :(
 
www.ampannealing.com

Mark II DB

New for 2024 is the MARK II DB (Database) We have had a lot of feedback on the Mark I and Mark II annealer over the years. We have decided that now is the time to give the Mark II a new interface to make it easier and more intuitive to use. The Mark...
www.ampannealing.com www.ampannealing.com
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
Ehh. You google well, my friend. Did you google Sayeret Matkal and just take the first two pictures? Habibi, the first pick is from the Lebanon conflict in the mid-2000s, before X95 was adopted. The second pick is not even IDF!
Click to expand...

Yes, they are IDF. Take a peak at the flag on the plate carrier. So try again. Still no proof of Sayeret Matkal using Tavors. Yes, I just looked at images online… because I don’t actually care about the unit. But clearly they don’t use Tavors like you claim. Tavors are not innovative. Bullpups are not innovative. And they are not inherently superior to ARs.
 
PappyM3 said:
Yes, they are IDF. Take a peak at the flag on the plate carrier. So try again. Still no proof of Sayeret Matkal using Tavors. Yes, I just looked at images online… because I don’t actually care about the unit. But clearly they don’t use Tavors like you claim. Tavors are not innovative. Bullpups are not innovative. And they are not inherently superior to ARs.
Click to expand...
Dude, enough. Get a room.

Post new gun stuff.
 
40 Creedmoor fan said:
…

The fact of the matter remains: US infantrymen are issued an old, albeit reliable, platform. They are trained to minimize the platform's deficiencies to be effective, but it does not mean our soldiers do not deserve a better rifle! …
Click to expand...

IMG_9077.gif

What are these deficiencies they have to work around? And what is the training to overcome these deficiencies. Explain it all to me. I’d love to know everything you know about U.S. infantrymen.

You do realize that soldiers WANT to keep using the M4, right? SOCOM tried the 5.56 Mk16 SCAR-L and didn’t like it. Stuck with the M4. There was a bullpup in the NGSW program, got rejected because nobody liked it.
 
s&w3913 said:
Only thing that would make me jump at a new S&W product is if a DA/SA gun comes back preferably built on the CSX or Shield platform. However I’ll always default to my S&W 3913 for this role.
Click to expand...
Same here. They could make something a little more substantial with a hammer that could compete with the CZ and Sig crowd.
But they would mess it up and make some cheap POS.
 
M1911 said:
So Daniel Defense has just debuted at ShotShow an AR shaped PCC that uses mostly proprietary parts and, wait for it, uses CZ Scorpion mags and is still direct blowback.

I can’t even…
Click to expand...

A Sig MPX with CZ mags would have been sweet but I wouldn’t expect that out of Daniel Defense. If it’s $1000 max I’d consider it.
 
Varmint said:
A Sig MPX with CZ mags would have been sweet but I wouldn’t expect that out of Daniel Defense. If it’s $1000 max I’d consider it.
Click to expand...
Why get something with proprietary junk when you can build an AR-15 in 9mm and have all that after market support and mags?

Maybe I am missing something.
 

Similar threads

It’s Almost 2024 Party Shooting Season!
Replies
4
Views
187
slap shot
slap shot
Flying domestically with declared firearm on JetBlue and Delta in 2024
2
Replies
51
Views
1K
gruby254
gruby254
These Are The Worst States To Be A Gun Owner In 2024
Replies
9
Views
632
Zappa
Zappa
Kari Lake suggests supporters 'strap on a Glock' to be ready for 2024
Replies
19
Views
550
Dennis in MA
Dennis in MA
NH Gun Grab 2024?
Replies
21
Views
2K
design
design
Back
Top Bottom