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sshooting stance

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frenchman

frenchman

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Weaver or isosceles?
To me, the weaver comes kinda naturally. BUT... I'm not a "tight grouping" guy. I shoot to practice for self defense exclusively, which means to me center of mass at up to 30 feet=good enough.
What's your take on it?
Also, how much time do you guys spend practicing drawing/presenting/dryfiring/rinse and repeat?
 
See rule number 4 :

Marine Corps Rules for Gun Fighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."

Navy Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee



Fun aside, I personally use modified weaver at the range as I find it to be comfortable and natural for me.
 
Personally, I found the isosceles and a better grip worked wonders for me in terms of cluster shooting/accuracy. I have practiced it many times over and over to get my muscle-memory programmed better and to help me remember proper stance and training.
 
soloman02 said:
See rule number 4 :

Marine Corps Rules for Gun Fighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them.

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4."

Navy Rules for Gun fighting:

1. Go to Sea

2. Send the Marines

3. Drink Coffee



Fun aside, I personally use modified weaver at the range as I find it to be comfortable and natural for me.
Click to expand...

That is awesome! Never saw that list before, but it is great. I also prefer a modified Weaver myself when stationary shooting. I have been practicing a lot of run and gun stuff lately though, so I don't focus as much on an exact stance, just whatever position feels natural at the time.
 
Isn't the modified isosceles the "best" stance (for today)?

Weaver feels natural to me, but I generally use modified isosceles.
 
I use modified isosceles for most handgun and CQB drills because that's what the Army wants me to do and with an IOTV and SAPI plates, it's actually easier than a Weaver anyway, IMO. But for precise shooting, such as shooting at a deer when no rest is available, it's still a typical offhand stance. I've never fired my 30-06 in an isosceles stance, but I'm guessing it isn't comfortable or accurate.
 
That Guy said:
I use modified isosceles for most handgun and CQB drills because that's what the Army wants me to do and with an IOTV and SAPI plates, it's actually easier than a Weaver anyway, IMO. But for precise shooting, such as shooting at a deer when no rest is available, it's still a typical offhand stance. I've never fired my 30-06 in an isosceles stance, but I'm guessing it isn't comfortable or accurate.
Click to expand...

is that like the high ready? low ready? or medium stance? [laugh]

shooting with all that crap on has nothing to do with "CCW" stance.
 
This is my stance

l-pk7fbufvgtehc8.jpg
 
I try and dry fire every night; not just trigger pulls, but that and draws from concealment, and even bits and pieces of draw stroke. Working high ready to all out/90% trigger pull mostly these days, because it's challenging not to pull the trigger the whole way (but oh so important).
 
Last edited:
DrRansom said:
I try and dry fire every night; not just trigger pulls, but that and draws from concealment, and even bits and pieces of draw stroke. Working high ready to all out/90% trigger pull mostly these days, because it's challenging not to pull the trigger the whole way (but oh so important).
Click to expand...

From where do you draw? IWB or OWB ? 4 o'clock?
 
Every top practical pistol shooter uses isosceles without exception. Your excuse for sucky accuracy is weak. I spend 45 minutes to an hour a day dry firing, just like a lot of other local shooters.
 
frenchman said:
Weaver or isosceles?
To me, the weaver comes kinda naturally. BUT... I'm not a "tight grouping" guy. I shoot to practice for self defense exclusively, which means to me center of mass at up to 30 feet=good enough.
What's your take on it?
Also, how much time do you guys spend practicing drawing/presenting/dryfiring/rinse and repeat?
Click to expand...

Not a "tight grouping" guy? As opposed to what? A "crappy grouping" guy?

Stance doesn't matter at 30 feet shooting for accuracy. Shooting for accuracy helps you improve your ability to shoot at speed. Hell, shooting for accuracy TEACHES you how to shoot at speed. Walk before you can run. From practicing accuracy you will learn what stance works best for you. There is no right stance. Can you hit the target in that stance? Well then who cares? I shoot ISO because it works for me.

If you claim to be practicing for self defense, think about this:

If you can shoot just "good enough" at 30 feet on a static range, on a nice relaxed day... what's going to happen when your blood and adrenaline start pumping as you're fighting for you life? When you can't be in a nice and neat perfect shooting stance? Do you suppose your "good enough" is going to be "good enough" in these conditions? If you think so, then good on you. If not... you practice until you can make the tightest group you possibly can. You practice shooting this same level of accuracy at increasing speeds. You increase speed gradually until your "good enough" is actually "good enough". Then you keep practicing. Shooting is a perishable skill.

As for dry fire, drawing, whatever... I do it quite a bit. Muscle memory is your friend.
 
Danrk6 said:
Not a "tight grouping" guy? As opposed to what? A "crappy grouping" guy?

Stance doesn't matter at 30 feet shooting for accuracy. Shooting for accuracy helps you improve your ability to shoot at speed. Hell, shooting for accuracy TEACHES you how to shoot at speed. Walk before you can run. From practicing accuracy you will learn what stance works best for you. There is no right stance. Can you hit the target in that stance? Well then who cares? I shoot ISO because it works for me.

If you claim to be practicing for self defense, think about this:

If you can shoot just "good enough" at 30 feet on a static range, on a nice relaxed day... what's going to happen when your blood and adrenaline start pumping as you're fighting for you life? When you can't be in a nice and neat perfect shooting stance? Do you suppose your "good enough" is going to be "good enough" in these conditions? If you think so, then good on you. If not... you practice until you can make the tightest group you possibly can. You practice shooting this same level of accuracy at increasing speeds. You increase speed gradually until your "good enough" is actually "good enough". Then you keep practicing. Shooting is a perishable skill.

As for dry fire, drawing, whatever... I do it quite a bit. Muscle memory is your friend.
Click to expand...

i think the extra-low-low ready would work, just to be safe... or this

Newport, from a town of "none-ya-goddamn business" [laugh]


LeonardWashington.jpg
 
bill o said:
Every top practical pistol shooter uses isosceles without exception. Your excuse for sucky accuracy is weak. I spend 45 minutes to an hour a day dry firing, just like a lot of other local shooters.
Click to expand...

45-90 minutes a day??? Holy crap! I could find the time to do that. To be honest I don't practice dry fire drills at all. I do however go to the range a lot and I'm pretty confident I can hold my own with a lot of other shooters. Though, if you can find the time and motivation to do all that other stuff then God bless you.
 
I like the brokeback prone stance myself.
 
Makes sense, Steve. If you can't predict which exact scenario is going to unfold in real life, there's no point in practicing anything.
 
fivepak said:
45-90 minutes a day??? Holy crap! I could find the time to do that. To be honest I don't practice dry fire drills at all. I do however go to the range a lot and I'm pretty confident I can hold my own with a lot of other shooters. Though, if you can find the time and motivation to do all that other stuff then God bless you.
Click to expand...

Well, there's only one way to know for sure how you rank against other shooters. [wink]
 
SteveCase said:
who cares about stance life isn't static

if you CCW you dont get to choose the stance you use when a bad guy gives a try a you
Click to expand...

Foot position doesn't matter, but you want the upper triangle to always be the same if you are shooting 2 handed.

- - - Updated - - -

bill o said:
Well, there's only one way to know for sure how you rank against other shooters. [wink]
Click to expand...

IDPA?
 
Supermoto said:
Foot position doesn't matter, but you want the upper triangle to always be the same if you are shooting 2 handed.
Click to expand...

This is true. At a recent class, the instructor asked us if stance was important and we all of course said yes. He then did a sub 2 second Bill Drill while hopping up and down on one foot. It convinced me that a slight forward lean and consistent triangle are what matters for recoil control.

IDPA?
Click to expand...

Yes!
 
bill o said:
This is true. At a recent class, the instructor asked us if stance was important and we all of course said yes. He then did a sub 2 second Bill Drill while hopping up and down on one foot. It convinced me that a slight forward lean and consistent triangle are what matters for recoil control.
Click to expand...

What class/instructor, if I may ask?
 
M1911 said:
Ben Stoeger. It was a very impressive, convincing, and totally unexpected demonstration.
Click to expand...

gracias. i'll look him up. I have some tentative plans for 2-3 classes this year, but have not heard of this gentleman as of yet. seems like classes will be cost-of-ammo dependent in the near future...[rolleyes]
 
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