Basically it's just a click below getting fired. In a ConHugeCo, it means you can get preference for getting another job within the organization, but otherwise if you don't, you're fired.
-Mike
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Surviving job loss
- Thread starter FrugalFannie
- Start date
Basically it's just a click below getting fired. In a ConHugeCo, it means you can get preference for getting another job within the organization, but otherwise if you don't, you're fired.
-Mike
FrugalFannie
NES Member
And the great job he has is ending early. It was a contract that was supposed to go through July but has finished sooner than expected and he has a month before he is done. Back to the hunt!
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,529
- Likes
- 33,559
It is the same as "decruited" or "phased to mobility"
dcmdon
NES Member
My favorite is de-selected.
A friend of mine called me a couple of days ago. It was Noon on wednesday and she just received a meeting invite from HR. She had been on a "PIP" and the invite subject was "PIP" conclusion. It was scheduled for the next day. She was a wreck.
She was sure she was going to get canned. I told her to call HR or her boss, whichever she preferred and ask if she was being terminated the next day. There is something cathartic about taking control of the situation rather than waiting like a lemming to be slaughtered 18 hours later. I told her that if she did not get an emphatic "Of course we aren't firing you", then she was getting fired.
She got something much less emphatic. I told her to take the afternoon off. (She had been planning to work late to finish a project) She took the contents of her cube, her company laptop and left for the day. Around 3:00 PM HR called her and said that there was no point in having the meeting since they'd noticed she cleaned out her cube. Ha. Way to take control. They told her over the phone that they would be sending her a packet. (the dreaded packet)
She went in the next day before everyone got there (her door pass still worked) and dropped off her laptop.
It sucks. But she hated her job, so in a way, this is a good thing. It is forcing her to find something better. She is a clinical project manager so there are a million jobs out there for her. She worked for a CRO which makes you a billable wage slave. She's looking at Biotech firms rather than CROs because they treat their employees better, generally speaking.
A friend of mine called me a couple of days ago. It was Noon on wednesday and she just received a meeting invite from HR. She had been on a "PIP" and the invite subject was "PIP" conclusion. It was scheduled for the next day. She was a wreck.
She was sure she was going to get canned. I told her to call HR or her boss, whichever she preferred and ask if she was being terminated the next day. There is something cathartic about taking control of the situation rather than waiting like a lemming to be slaughtered 18 hours later. I told her that if she did not get an emphatic "Of course we aren't firing you", then she was getting fired.
She got something much less emphatic. I told her to take the afternoon off. (She had been planning to work late to finish a project) She took the contents of her cube, her company laptop and left for the day. Around 3:00 PM HR called her and said that there was no point in having the meeting since they'd noticed she cleaned out her cube. Ha. Way to take control. They told her over the phone that they would be sending her a packet. (the dreaded packet)
She went in the next day before everyone got there (her door pass still worked) and dropped off her laptop.
It sucks. But she hated her job, so in a way, this is a good thing. It is forcing her to find something better. She is a clinical project manager so there are a million jobs out there for her. She worked for a CRO which makes you a billable wage slave. She's looking at Biotech firms rather than CROs because they treat their employees better, generally speaking.
cockpitbob
NES Member
Making someone stew for a day like that is unconscionable. That should never happen.
It is the same as "decruited" or "phased to mobility"
"Reduction in force" or "realignment of resources"
dcmdon
NES Member
It happens all the time. I actually had something similar happen to me. I was working at Biogen as an IT contractor. The new EVP of Technology and Business Solutions started firing all of the VPs and putting in her own people. As you could imagine, the 5h1t ran downhill and at some point I realized I hadn't been given a new project after I had wrapped one up. I was carrying 4 or 5 at the time and initially appreciated the break. Then I wrapped up another and there was not new project forthcoming. Hmm. I emailed the PMO and asked to be put on another project. No answer. Then I got a call from my boss Paula Cassidy, telling me that they were shifting my responsibilities to better match my skillset and would I mind transitioning my projects to another PM.
Hmm.
After the first meeting with the other guy, I got a bad vibe. So called Paula and asked her who I should talk to to get put onto new projects. She hedged and I knew I was done. I asked her outright. "Are you preparing to terminate me?". I had caught her completely flatfooted. She fumbled for words and finally asked me, what I saw myself doing at Biogen. Hmm. Yeah. Not good.
This was a Monday.
I came in Tuesday and Wednesday for 8 am meetings with the PM who was taking my projects. By Wednesday at 9:00, I had no more work and decided to go home. I felt I still had an ethical responsibility to work if they were paying me, so I emailed Paula and told her that I didn't have any work to do and was going to work from home. I would be monitoring emails until 5. At 5:15 Wednesday paula called me and asked me to meet with her Friday at 9:00. I again asked her if I was being terminated. She danced again, not having come up with a good answer in the 48 hours since I last asked. I farted around Thursday AM and then decided I'd had enough. I write about this like it was casual, but inside It was killing me. So I declined the Fri meeting invite and at that point I got a call from my agency telling me my contract was not going to be continued. They asked that I drop off my laptop.
I was pissed and emailed Paula that I would like Biogen to send me a FedEx shipping label and I'd send it back to them. Yeah it was a prick move. But everyone I knew was bailing from that company except for a few who seem to be geniuses at surviving.
Why am I telling this tale of woe? I forget. Ha. Either way. Getting let go sucks. Having it dragged out sucks even more. Having it dragged out by a boss who doesn't have the balls to square with you is even worse.
Don
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but at my company there is almost no chance of surviving a PIP. I've seen people come back from a Documented Counseling, but once you get to a PIP they are just checking the boxes to make sure there is enough documentation to survive any legal challenge.
As for what to call a layoff, I prefer what they used in the movie Up in the Air. "Your position at this company is no longer available."
Shark_Cage
NES Member
I can't read this whole thread (still to raw for me). HR calls what happened to your friend "managing out the door". Yes once you're on a PIP, you're dead. You can't fight it, your boss will set you up to fail.
Sorry to say it, I know it sucks.
Varmint
NES Member
Good post. Companies suck and are more often than not run by idiots and their cronies. Never get attached to your company or your job. Be like De Niro in Heat, be ready to walk away at any moment.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Huh.
A zillion years ago (when I was in grad school), I had a gig with IBM's ISSC unit. (OK, technically I had a gig with a temp agency who had a gig with ISSC.)
This was during a big round of downsizing at IBM. The deal there was, the boss and a security guard came into your office/cubicle/... with a box. Your belongings go into the box. The security guard escorts you and box out the door and takes your pass. It was pretty abrupt. I was told it was to prevent sabotage. I watched it happen several times when I was there.
cockpitbob
NES Member
Yes, abrupt is the way the axe should fall. I've had to do my share. In the good places, HR's policy is to call them at their desk and ask them to come to a conference room for the execution. If you go to their desk and have them "come with me" they get to do what is clearly a walk to the gallows in front of their friends and colleagues. We then walk them to the door and that evening meet them after hours so they can clean out their cube in private.
Having a humiliating or anguish filled layoff process doesn't sit well with the remaining employees. There is no benefit to the company in harming someone's dignity when letting them go.
I worked at local Health Care software company out of college that sounds like the company from Office Space (Initech). I remember a guy that worked there for about 10 years gave his notice on a Monday to start his own restaurant (not going to a competitor, etc). They said ok you are done, he asked to finish the week as he didn't want to leave his team hanging and he wanted to say goodbye to the people he worked with for a decade. They said no, go screw, thanks for the decade.
Working there, they had a you are dead to us policy on leaving, they basically treated it as a teenage girl that just got dumped. It was known you would never be considered a candidate to be hired back even if you left on good terms. Real weird business practice there. Probably why they aren't doing so good now.
Working there, they had a you are dead to us policy on leaving, they basically treated it as a teenage girl that just got dumped. It was known you would never be considered a candidate to be hired back even if you left on good terms. Real weird business practice there. Probably why they aren't doing so good now.
SpaceCritter
NES Member
Friend of the family worked for a time at (one of the big-box hardware places - can't remember which now). When he quit, they hanged him in effigy. Apparently that was tradition there.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Stone & Webster Engineering had a policy that once an employee left for any reason, they were never to be allowed in the building for any reason and never to be considered for re-hiring. They were totally paranoid.
Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC) was a "family" and layoffs were foreign to them until they started to swirl the toilet bowl ~1990ish. The first layoffs were services personnel only (engineering was untouchable) and they perp-walked those loyal employees out of the facility with security. There was a lot of blow-back on that so future layoffs were handled more civilly. When my turn came there were 8K of us laid off at the same time across the company and my boss told me that I could drop everything and leave right then but I asked to work the rest of the week to transition everything in an orderly fashion and he agreed. On that Friday he came into my office and told me "you didn't have to do it, but I want to thank you for doing it". Product Safety (the group I worked in) was a close-knit group of people (I was a charter member of a regional association) where we knew each other from all the various companies. Burning bridges has never been an option for me, professionally it is too small a "world" and a bad reputation will kill future opportunities. On St. Patrick's Day each year the ex-DECcies from Product Safety and Power Supply Engineering meet for lunch at an Irish bar in Marlboro. I had a long chat with my former boss and former co-workers. It's been 23 years since I left DEC and we all still get along. My former boss escaped to NH after DEC and we talked about him getting his MA NR LTC for which I'm going to help him if he decides to proceed.
Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC) was a "family" and layoffs were foreign to them until they started to swirl the toilet bowl ~1990ish. The first layoffs were services personnel only (engineering was untouchable) and they perp-walked those loyal employees out of the facility with security. There was a lot of blow-back on that so future layoffs were handled more civilly. When my turn came there were 8K of us laid off at the same time across the company and my boss told me that I could drop everything and leave right then but I asked to work the rest of the week to transition everything in an orderly fashion and he agreed. On that Friday he came into my office and told me "you didn't have to do it, but I want to thank you for doing it". Product Safety (the group I worked in) was a close-knit group of people (I was a charter member of a regional association) where we knew each other from all the various companies. Burning bridges has never been an option for me, professionally it is too small a "world" and a bad reputation will kill future opportunities. On St. Patrick's Day each year the ex-DECcies from Product Safety and Power Supply Engineering meet for lunch at an Irish bar in Marlboro. I had a long chat with my former boss and former co-workers. It's been 23 years since I left DEC and we all still get along. My former boss escaped to NH after DEC and we talked about him getting his MA NR LTC for which I'm going to help him if he decides to proceed.
FrugalFannie
NES Member
Larger companies have what seem like very cold policies when terminating employees for ANY reason. Generally its so that ALL employees, under all circumstances are treated the same to avoid potential lawsuits. Hey they let Fred clean out his desk/finish the week/etc but they walked me to the door like a criminal in front of all my coworkers.
I will say this company is being decent. My husband has a 1 month notice and they stated they will be flexible with him taking time off/working from home. Honestly, they could have let him go immediately and his work could have been shifted to someone else. We have seen this coming but thought he would have actually finished out his second 6 month "contract" instead of being short 3.5 months.
but having learned from all the past times we have socked away a bit of money. Maybe not as much as we could have. We bought a few things that in retrospect we could have done without but we have "done without" for a very long time. We could have rented a cheaper place but housing down here is a bit tight and we were very much "under the gun" when we finally landed here. All in all I think we are in pretty good position. The best thing on our side is the booming economy down here with tons of jobs in very close proximity. (of course, that also means there are lots of zombies here!)
I'm seeing a major trend with companies laying everyone off and replacing them with "contract" employees. You don't have to lay them off, you just don't renew. It's a big shell game.
cockpitbob
NES Member
Our Silicon Valley branch has hired several engineers through recruiting firms on what they call try-n-buy. They hire them on contract though the agency and then make them permanent after 6 months if all goes well. That usually only works when times are hard. People won't leave one job for another under those terms.
Shark_Cage
NES Member
Certain jobs you almost automatically get walked out the door when you give your notice. Sales types and certain IT folks come to mind. I knew I would be one at a previous job. Took the day and packed up all my stuff. Put a sign on it "Jim's shit" and then gave my notice. When the office manager came overto walk me out (a whole 10 mins after getting of the phone with my boss). She saw the pile and started laughing.
At all the companies I've been at I've pushed for a clean cut separation to protect everyone. The company assets are protected from a potentially disgruntled employee. The employee is protected because they can't be accused of doing (or actually do) anything to harm the company, or burn bridges behind them (via company wide email for instance)
I've been in highly critical roles in several companies and while I wished they would walk me out the day I resigned, no one has.
dcmdon
NES Member
Here's an example of a a good firing.
In 2001 I was working for a Holyoke / Waltham based company called DataProfit. We were the protected JD Edwards (ERP Software) dealer for the Northeast. We had just filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection, but things were not looking good.
On a Thursday morning my boss Chuck Miller (the best boss I've ever had, now works for Oracle) called me and asked me to come up to Waltham. I asked him if he was going to fire me. He said yes, but corrected me that he was laying me off and I had provided excellent service to the company and it was killing him to do this to me and many others.
So I drove from SE CT to Waltham and met with Chuck. He asked me for the keys to my company car. I said "Are you driving me back to CT?? because I sure as 5h1t am not getting a car service with my own CC expecting DP to cover it. "Hmmm. F$%K it" was his response. "Take the car home, we'll deal with that later"
OK, but I need your PC he said. I protested lightly "comeon. what am I going to use to job hunt. its not like they will be hiring new people anytime soon".
Yeah, F%&k it, keep the ThinkPad, was his response.
Chuck then apologized to me for dragging me up to waltham. I told him not to worry, I would have wanted to see everyone one last time anyway. He walked me through the office, lots of hugging and crying, sad goodbyes. Others were getting canned that day, they had to be. With my company car and laptop, I drove home.
Oh, and Chuck suggested I stop at an amazing Sushi palce in Providence to buy myself lunch, he would approve even an "EMC style meal". (You know what I mean Rob)
So I went to providence and spent $150 on sushi (with only 1 drink) then onto home.
2 days later DataProfit filed for Chapter 7 liquidation. I was stiffed for the meal. . . . . But I still had my company car. A week or so later I got a call from Ford Motor Credit begging me to not drive the car. They told me it was uninsured. So I called my insurance agent and put my own insurance on it.
I drove it for almost 3 months before FOMOCredit caught up with me.
It sucked It sucked bad. But I treated with dignity and respect, and whole gobs of HUMANITY.
I put names in these posts in the hope that when these people are googled, others will see the things they've done. So once again. Chuck Miller - the best boss I've ever had. Paula Cassidy - an empty suit if there ever was one.
- - - Updated - - -
You are a "resource", not a person.
- - - Updated - - -
I told her that. A PIP is just a way for them to document that they followed a process before letting you go.
In 2001 I was working for a Holyoke / Waltham based company called DataProfit. We were the protected JD Edwards (ERP Software) dealer for the Northeast. We had just filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection, but things were not looking good.
On a Thursday morning my boss Chuck Miller (the best boss I've ever had, now works for Oracle) called me and asked me to come up to Waltham. I asked him if he was going to fire me. He said yes, but corrected me that he was laying me off and I had provided excellent service to the company and it was killing him to do this to me and many others.
So I drove from SE CT to Waltham and met with Chuck. He asked me for the keys to my company car. I said "Are you driving me back to CT?? because I sure as 5h1t am not getting a car service with my own CC expecting DP to cover it. "Hmmm. F$%K it" was his response. "Take the car home, we'll deal with that later"
OK, but I need your PC he said. I protested lightly "comeon. what am I going to use to job hunt. its not like they will be hiring new people anytime soon".
Yeah, F%&k it, keep the ThinkPad, was his response.
Chuck then apologized to me for dragging me up to waltham. I told him not to worry, I would have wanted to see everyone one last time anyway. He walked me through the office, lots of hugging and crying, sad goodbyes. Others were getting canned that day, they had to be. With my company car and laptop, I drove home.
Oh, and Chuck suggested I stop at an amazing Sushi palce in Providence to buy myself lunch, he would approve even an "EMC style meal". (You know what I mean Rob)
So I went to providence and spent $150 on sushi (with only 1 drink) then onto home.
2 days later DataProfit filed for Chapter 7 liquidation. I was stiffed for the meal. . . . . But I still had my company car. A week or so later I got a call from Ford Motor Credit begging me to not drive the car. They told me it was uninsured. So I called my insurance agent and put my own insurance on it.
I drove it for almost 3 months before FOMOCredit caught up with me.
It sucked It sucked bad. But I treated with dignity and respect, and whole gobs of HUMANITY.
I put names in these posts in the hope that when these people are googled, others will see the things they've done. So once again. Chuck Miller - the best boss I've ever had. Paula Cassidy - an empty suit if there ever was one.
- - - Updated - - -
You are a "resource", not a person.
- - - Updated - - -
I told her that. A PIP is just a way for them to document that they followed a process before letting you go.
dcmdon
NES Member
At some point, I'll post the story of how we "stole" a clients 42U Compaq cabinet from DataProfit's Holyoke office and returned it to the client. (the Bankruptcy trustee had said it could take 90 days to determine that the rack was not a DP asset and subject to liquidation. This was an ecommerce company. That rack was their business, and it was sitting in an unoccupied office. This was LOOONNNNGGGG before cloud services like Amazon Web Services.)
Don
hint: it involves something like a 28 foot Ryder rental truck because that was the smallest truck that had the height to take a 42 u rack standing up. Ha.
Don
hint: it involves something like a 28 foot Ryder rental truck because that was the smallest truck that had the height to take a 42 u rack standing up. Ha.
dcmdon
NES Member
Fully loaded. There were 4 of us. We brought plywood, some 4' x 3' sheets of .030 steel sheet, and 16" 2x8s to ease the transition onto the trucks ramp. We rolled it on its own wheels. We never tipped it onto an appliance dolly or anything. Then we strapped it into the front corner of the cube and drove gingerly away.
I'm guessing FedEx didn't take the same care.
I've worked in IT as either the client or with a systems integrator for 23 years. You are certainly right. I've never seen a loaded rack moved under normal circumstances. Even it it is fully built at the vendors, its always broken down for transport. We didn't have that luxury of time. The only thing we took out was the UPS from the bottom. It worked ok.
And frankly, even if we destroyed the rack itself in the process, it would not have mattered. The goal was to get this ex-client's "business" moved to another CoLo site before it was held hostage by the bankruptcy trustee for several months while ownership was established. We never accepted any money in excess of our costs for doing this. It was the right thing to do. The client was very loyal and had committed 100% trust in DataProfit.
cockpitbob
NES Member
![[party]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/021.gif "Party [party]")
