The best build out

dcmdon said:
Stay away from the over priced ambi selectors like a bad ass.

$25 gets you a perfectly serviceable one from RRA. The same goes for a charging handle.
Click to expand...

The chick that works at the bank I go to is serviceable, but I' rather spend a night with Scarlett Johansen. [wink]

I find the BAD ASS to be a marked upgrade over the standard ambi safety and worth every penny. Same goes for the BCM charging handle, whether it be the regular or ambi model.
 
ntomsw said:
Comparing DMV Saturday hours to registering firearms, and thinking I'm so cool while I willingly bow down to my master is laughable. Everyone here wants the ATF abolished except when we need permission from them just to build a rifle, right???
Click to expand...

Once again, you are the man!!!



atilla said:
yup, that's it. entirely.

is it your personal mission to get on the bad side of literally everyone on this board, dude? the very people who helped you out when you got into hot water with some alphabet agencies? the very people who donated their own money to help you out with a lawyer? one of those people being the one you are speaking to right now, in fact?

what is it, man?
Click to expand...

Not to stir the pot, but i can't resist.
I knew it wasn't just me, NTOMSW is the forum bully [rofl]
 
Put 1000-2000 rounds through ANY gun you own and determine its reliability. Colt, LWRC, and others have the potential to put out an unreliable gun every now and then.
 
StevieP said:
My AR has been 100% reliable through ~1500+ rounds. Seriously. Not one malfunction, misfire, failure to feed or eject. Rra upper w/ chromed bcg. SS 1:8 20" barrel. Geissele trigger.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That was my experience in shooting ARs for about 15 years. I competed in CMP matches. Took marksmanship classes, played around with them shooting informally and even did a few 3 guns.

I never had a problem.

Then I took my first really good carbine class. This is a class where the AR is used fast close, at ranges we traditionally associate with handguns. I shot what seemed like a thousand round the first day. Probably 300 of them in the last hour. The gun was dirty and so hot that I couldn't put my bare hand anywhere near the barrel nut and the front of the mag well was also too hot to grab.

This is when people's rifles started having problems. I don't know the brands, but many were home built guns.

I started having problems with stuck cartridges, failure to extract, double feeds. Up until then I had used Wolf ammo for non marksmanship type events and never had a problem. It was here that I learned wolf doesn't seem to run well in hot, dirty ARs. I would have one failure in about every mag. I got really good at pistol transitions. Since the problem started at the end of the day, I just lived with it.

I talked things over with the guys running the course and decided to run 55 gr lake city the next day.

That night I cleaned the barrel with extra attention paid to cleaning the chamber and did a general wipe down of the BCG.

The next day we went through even more ammo and the guns got even hotter (I brought a cheap pair of Mechanix gloves in for the second day) and I had zero failures. ZERO. The gun was filthy and very hot for much of the day.

The gun was a preban parts gun with a complete LMT 14.5" MRP upper and an enhanced LMT bolt in a standard LMT carrier. Once fed proper 5.56 like the LMTs were designed to run on, it worked perfectly. LMT is one of the best 2 or 3 makers when it comes to reliability. So all I had to do was feed it what it was designed to run on and it delivered.

Over the intervening years, I used brass ammo exclusively for these kinds of classes and never had any trouble. I continued to use Wolf when plinkink with no trouble. Then in 09 I took a class at Academi. The price of ammo had gone up so I decided to give Wolf one more try. It had worked fine for my local pin matches and general plinking. Also, wolf had supposedly changed the coating on the cases to elminiate sticking.

This time I ahd some 77gr HP BT wolf that seemed to run the action a bit harder than the wimpy 55gr stuff. It worked fine until around lunch time on the first day and then I started having case sticking problem. Again. I cleaned the chamber well and the gun continued to run flawlessly for the next day and a half on a diet of LC.

So, whats my point here. My point is that if you use an AR like a typical person uses an AR, you will never have any problems. That was my experience. A clean gun with a relatively cool chamber will never have problems. How most of us use an AR most of the time fits these ideal conditions. Even shooting a 3 gun match, you run the stage and then the gun sits for 40 minutes until the next stage.

Its not until the gun is hot and dirty that you see failures in less than ideal "systems". By systems I mean firearm, ammo, ammunition, and shooter.

These classes are the hardest anyone like me will (hopefully) ever have to run an AR. I could not imagine what its like for our boys in the middle east. In the case of a bad situation, their gun may be dirty from a days patrol BEFORE they even get into a bad situation. Their mags may be old aluminum mags that are long past their need to be replaced. I just don't know.

But what I do know is that experience based on a clean babied gun shot in controlled circumstances doesn't really reflect on what "real world" reliability will be like.
 
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oilspill said:
The chick that works at the bank I go to is serviceable, but I' rather spend a night with Scarlett Johansen. [wink]

I find the BAD ASS to be a marked upgrade over the standard ambi safety and worth every penny. Same goes for the BCM charging handle, whether it be the regular or ambi model.
Click to expand...

I'm in no way saying that YOU should not use that item. I'm just trying to make the point that looked at objectively, the Bad Ass doesn't do anything the standard one doesn't do. It just looks sexy. Its not longer, its not taller, its just sexy.

As a LH person, I didn't like the way the one I tried had had a smaller lever on the side that I used most of the time. I realize that a full sized lever can be put on the RH side, but again, then it it would just work the same as a standard ambi.

If you want improved function, try out the star style ambi selector. (Still $25.)

Re charging handles. I'm with you on upgraded ones. I like the BCM/Vltors. I'm a lefty and they make it easier to reach over the top, with the big latch. But like I said, if you have a forward assist and actually try to use the right side release on an ambi charging handle, with any kind of speed, you will find your hand running off the FA and missing the CH.

I know. I tried. I really wanted to like my ambi CH. I couldn't. It was slower than a BCM/Vltor with a large latch on the standard side.

I still have the ambi CH and may try it on a slick side AR. But for most people, it sucks.

sftys8.gif
 
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dcmdon said:
That was my experience in shooting ARs for about 15 years. I competed in CMP matches. Took marksmanship classes, played around with them shooting informally and even did a few 3 guns.

I never had a problem.

Then I took my first really good carbine class. This is a class where the AR is used fast close, at ranges we traditionally associate with handguns. I shot what seemed like a thousand round the first day. Probably 300 of them in the last hour. The gun was dirty and so hot that I couldn't put my bare hand anywhere near the barrel nut and the front of the mag well was also too hot to grab.

This is when people's rifles started having problems. I don't know the brands, but many were home built guns.

I started having problems with stuck cartridges, failure to extract, double feeds. Up until then I had used Wolf ammo for non marksmanship type events and never had a problem. It was here that I learned wolf doesn't seem to run well in hot, dirty ARs. I would have one failure in about every mag. I got really good at pistol transitions. Since the problem started at the end of the day, I just lived with it.

I talked things over with the guys running the course and decided to run 55 gr lake city the next day.

That night I cleaned the barrel with extra attention paid to cleaning the chamber and did a general wipe down of the BCG.

The next day we went through even more ammo and the guns got even hotter (I brought a cheap pair of Mechanix gloves in for the second day) and I had zero failures. ZERO. The gun was filthy and very hot for much of the day.

The gun was a preban parts gun with a complete LMT 14.5" MRP upper and an enhanced LMT bolt in a standard LMT carrier. Once fed proper 5.56 like the LMTs were designed to run on, it worked perfectly. LMT is one of the best 2 or 3 makers when it comes to reliability. So all I had to do was feed it what it was designed to run on and it delivered.

Over the intervening years, I used brass ammo exclusively for these kinds of classes and never had any trouble. I continued to use Wolf when plinkink with no trouble. Then in 09 I took a class at Academi. The price of ammo had gone up so I decided to give Wolf one more try. It had worked fine for my local pin matches and general plinking. Also, wolf had supposedly changed the coating on the cases to elminiate sticking.

This time I ahd some 77gr HP BT wolf that seemed to run the action a bit harder than the wimpy 55gr stuff. It worked fine until around lunch time on the first day and then I started having case sticking problem. Again. I cleaned the chamber well and the gun continued to run flawlessly for the next day and a half on a diet of LC.

So, whats my point here. My point is that if you use an AR like a typical person uses an AR, you will never have any problems. That was my experience. A clean gun with a relatively cool chamber will never have problems. How most of us use an AR most of the time fits these ideal conditions. Even shooting a 3 gun match, you run the stage and then the gun sits for 40 minutes until the next stage.

Its not until the gun is hot and dirty that you see failures in less than ideal "systems". By systems I mean firearm, ammo, ammunition, and shooter.

These classes are the hardest anyone like me will (hopefully) ever have to run an AR. I could not imagine what its like for our boys in the middle east. In the case of a bad situation, their gun may be dirty from a days patrol BEFORE they even get into a bad situation. Their mags may be old aluminum mags that are long past their need to be replaced. I just don't know.

But what I do know is that experience based on a clean babied gun shot in controlled circumstances doesn't really reflect on what "real world" reliability will be like.
Click to expand...

I don't usually read WOT posts, but this one was worth it. I have a few home built guns because I like buying and collecting parts and "building" them almost as much as I do shooting them, but the gun I would grab if I had to has a short LMT upper on it. I am likely going to buy one more quality upper, probably a BCM, and then be satisfied with my AR collection.
 
dcmdon said:
That was my experience in shooting ARs for about 15 years. I competed in CMP matches. Took marksmanship classes, played around with them shooting informally and even did a few 3 guns.

<snip>
Click to expand...

I won't quote the whole thing again, but this was a very interesting post. I'm headed to a 2-day defensive rifle class at SIG in July and was planning on shooting up my Wolf and MFS .223 stash, and saving my Federal 5.56. The estimate is 900 rounds over two days, so there will be some hot guns involved. I don't want to be distracted and frustrated by malfunctions, but I would also hate to shoot up all of my good stuff. My wife and son are also going, so we're talking nearly 3000 rounds among the three of us.

Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and buy more 5.56 from Shooter's or Riley's while I'm up there. Or use the .223 stuff until/if it causes problems, then switch over to 5.56.
 
scatter said:
I won't quote the whole thing again, but this was a very interesting post. I'm headed to a 2-day defensive rifle class at SIG in July and was planning on shooting up my Wolf and MFS .223 stash, and saving my Federal 5.56. The estimate is 900 rounds over two days, so there will be some hot guns involved. I don't want to be distracted and frustrated by malfunctions, but I would also hate to shoot up all of my good stuff. My wife and son are also going, so we're talking nearly 3000 rounds among the three of us.

Maybe I'll just bite the bullet and buy more 5.56 from Shooter's or Riley's while I'm up there. Or use the .223 stuff until/if it causes problems, then switch over to 5.56.
Click to expand...

The first day is going to begin with safety rules, marksmanship fundamentals, etc.

It wouldn't hurt to use the wolf for at least the first half of the first day. If you do, make sure you have a chamber brush.

A normal .22 cal brush does not clean a .223 chamber.

I mounted a .223 AR chamber semi-permanently with loctite in a piece of cleaning rod. I bent the end on it so I could twist it either way as I cleaned the chamber.




Its just the right length so I can pop out the bolt, stick it in for a quick swab, spin it a few times, then pull it out and shove a chamber mop in there to get the crap out, then back to shooting. I can clean a chamber in about a minute.

Here's a shot in a chamber to show the length of the rod.

 
dcmdon said:
I'm in no way saying that YOU should not use that item. I'm just trying to make the point that looked at objectively, the Bad Ass doesn't do anything the standard one doesn't do. It just looks sexy. Its not longer, its not taller, its just sexy.

As a LH person, I didn't like the way the one I tried had had a smaller lever on the side that I used most of the time. I realize that a full sized lever can be put on the RH side, but again, then it it would just work the same as a standard ambi.

If you want improved function, try out the star style ambi selector. (Still $25.)

Re charging handles. I'm with you on upgraded ones. I like the BCM/Vltors. I'm a lefty and they make it easier to reach over the top, with the big latch. But like I said, if you have a forward assist and actually try to use the right side release on an ambi charging handle, with any kind of speed, you will find your hand running off the FA and missing the CH.

I know. I tried. I really wanted to like my ambi CH. I couldn't. It was slower than a BCM/Vltor with a large latch on the standard side.

I still have the ambi CH and may try it on a slick side AR. But for most people, it sucks.

sftys8.gif
Click to expand...

For me, the selling point of the BAD was the ability to add the short lever to the left side since my trigger finger was uncomfortably riding over the original and it was annoying me. If I didn't like it, I could try the thin or the hybrid. Added a Ranier Raptor CH (which I love) and a Troy ambi mag release and now have a true ambi rifle... though righties have to use the shorter safety switch. Was a little dubious of the screw in safety levers until I got one in my hands, but it turned out to be a solidly made part.
 
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I understand you point completely.

However, once you figured out what you wanted, about 10 minutes worth of work with a hack saw and a file on a standard ambi lever would have gotten you the same result. If you dress it nicely with a file and then hit with a stone and some cold blue, it could look totally factoryBut I understand that some people don't like to make things.

With respect to my post above about how ambi CHs don't work well with guns with forward assists (99% of all ARs), here are a couple of shots of an ambi CH illustrating my point.

Don



 
And here's some simple gun porn of the gun in question. This is one of my "keep it legal" lowers. Its a registered SBR that is also pre-ban.
This was the rifle that came out the evening the Tasrnievs were running rampant less than 3 miles from my home.

Its proven to be extraordinarily reliable. This what I used at my most recent Academi class. Its a LMT 10.5" upper. Factory built. Standard weight buffer with a sprinco extra weight spring and a LMT double spring "lobster claw" enhanced bolt.


Don

p.s. MA is the only place I've ever been where I"ll be at the range and someone will look at this carbine and approach me to simply tell me "That gun is illegal". I resist the urge to tell them to Eff off and look at it as a teachable moment.

 
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Its an old POF brake. Their current product is a 3 chamber design.

I thought the "compliance tip" looked cool and the design is standard baffle design, so I knew it would work.

The thing most people don't realize is that since the pressure at the moment of "uncorking" in a 10" gun is 55% more than the pressure in a 16" gun, the brake is VERY VERY effective. (12K vs 7800 psi) It has less recoil than a 16" gun with the same comp because so much energy is available for the comp.

See this for a great article:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2010armament/WednesdayCumberlandPhilipDater.pdf

Most people don't realize this. Its counterintuitive. When using a good comp, shortening the bbl actually reduces recoil because the loss in weight is more than made up for with the increased compensator efficiency.

Don
 
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dcmdon said:
I understand you point completely.

However, once you figured out what you wanted, about 10 minutes worth of work with a hack saw and a file on a standard ambi lever would have gotten you the same result. If you dress it nicely with a file and then hit with a stone and some cold blue, it could look totally factoryBut I understand that some people don't like to make things.

With respect to my post above about how ambi CHs don't work well with guns with forward assists (99% of all ARs), here are a couple of shots of an ambi CH illustrating my point.

Don



Click to expand...

Totally got your point about the CH but I really like the raptor. From the overall construction to the whole handle being your disengage instead of a trigger style assembly, it works well for me. Never thought about modding an ambi switch. It would be pretty quick with a dremel, but even so I'm ok with learning about new (to me) parts and having options without having to buy and cut more than one switch. Maybe I'll find a used ambi and screw around with it. Who knows? Maybe I find an angle/style specific to my tastes. Thanks for putting that idea in my head.
 
dcmdon said:
Its an old POF brake. Their current product is a 3 chamber design.

I thought the "compliance tip" looked cool and the design is standard baffle design, so I knew it would work.

The thing most people don't realize is that since the pressure at the moment of "uncorking" in a 10" gun is almost twice the pressure in a 16" gun, the brake is VERY VERY effective. It has less recoil than a 16" gun with the same comp because so much energy is available for the comp.

Most people don't realize this. Its counterintuitive. When using a good comp, shortening the bbl actually reduces recoil because the loss in weight is more than made up for with the increased compensator efficiency.

Don
Click to expand...

i can dig it, very nice. [cheers]
 
RG617 - somone supposedly has an ambi selector that rotates only 60 deg. That would be interesting. Maybe better, maybe worse. I think 90 is fine, but at least its not just more of the same except executed with more sex appeal.

One other thing. Ambi selectors are nice even for RH people. in that first class I took our instructor showed us how an extended trigger finger could be used to take the gun off fire. for a LH person you use the standard selector lever to put the gun on safe. For a RH person, they use the selector on the ambi model.

It works for me. So it would go like this. On target - sweep the rh selector off with your left thumb.
off target - lift the LH side selector up into "safe" with your left index finger, which should now be extended along the side of the receiver.

Don
 
I've lucked out with my cheap piston kit from osprey for my ar. The only parts I really worry about when buying is the barrel and bolt.

I don't really got any to add to this thread .
But one thing I learned building ar's learn who really makes the parts and buy the sand thing for cheaper. Barrels are easy to get ripped off with this . Also I know a few company's that use green mt blanks . If rather buy the green my ar barrel for 150$ vs pays 100$ for a different company to machine it . For me the out side finish is for looks so I'm not pasting 100$ more for the sane thing.
 
I'm guessing your piston AR is not your primary "real" gun. But then again, if it has proven itself, its probably fine.

Ben, for most of us the vast majority of our guns are pure toys. What the heck. I'm willing to try anything.

I try never to lose sight of the fact that I am a 46 year old father and husband who likes to shoot and tinker with guns.
Are my firearms skills far better than the firearms skills of most police. Yes. I shoot 2x per week, they had better be.

Do I know anything about, or have any of the many other skills necessary to be an "operator". Of course not. I'm an IT guy. This is fun for me. I have no delusions of grandeur. I could get by with a battery of 2 handguns and 2 rifles if necessary. The rest are toys.

I'll give you an example. If you have ever shot a gun with a JP rifles low mass operating system (LMOS) you will find it to be a thing of joy. So when i built my latest toy, I included an adjustable JP gas block.

I wanted to try to do a LMOS on the cheap. Just to see if I could make it would work.

I recently removed all of the buffer weights from the buffer (its under an ounce now) and also removed the extra power spring. I replaced it with a standard power spring. I'm looking for an AR 15 bolt carrier or full BCG to swap with my heavier M16 style BC. (Most guns come with M16 style BCGs these days)

But even with the heavier BC, the change in how it shoots with the lightened buffer is dramatic. Do I have bolt bounce? Probably. Does it matter on my semi-auto gun? Probably not. I haven't had any problems yet and i was able to turn down the gas quite a bit. The system also cycles VERY fast compared to how it used to cycle.

Is this a good battle rifle? Of course not. It depends on the chamber and bolt being kept scrupulously clean and the ammo being pretty close in power to what it was set with. I use this gun mainly with my reloads, so it won't even cycle with Wolf.

Don

- - - Updated - - -

Warwickben - do you think that if we met at MRA I could give you my M16 bolt carrier you could knock a few ounces off of it?

We could discuss anything I would give or do for you as a "thank you" in person.

Don
 

Yeah my piston setup is my only function ar upper right now . But I got a spare carrier . Got the kit for 150$ lol skeet skeet .
If some thing failed I just got to remove gas block. People think its odd I run a carbine free float with a low profile gas block sticking out . But I built it that way for that reason . Two set screws and I can slide a di tube in. Now I think of it I should buy a spare gas block and have it setup like that. Thing rubs like a champ with crap ammo and I barrel clean it. It's my "battle carbine" lol ..

Shoot me a pm about the bcg . Do you know if the carrier is harden etc?
Find out the material and hardness and I'll talk to the guy I learned from what type of end mill will cut it . Or lathe tool ..
He gives me tools for gas money for driving him to work lol . He probably won't have a ball end mill . So if you want round flutes I'll tell you what to buy . I'd do it with u in my shop so you can tell me as I do it what u want etc.
Payment = range time lol I need to join a club lol .
 
Best build for SHTF?

The one you got 2+ years ago because you know it works and have experience shooting and maintaining it.

but if you want to get techy, the LMT Carbine is standard gas impingement is good to go.
 
Ben,

I'd love to do something like this

Loki-Weapon-Systems-Light-weight-bolt-carrier-2.jpg

Where you go all the way through, not just flute it. So it shouldn't need anything fancy for tooling. When my grandfather died I ended up with all his tooling. So I may be able to provide you with a . Everything I got from him is R8 for the old Bridgeports. Will that work for you?


I have no idea if/how its hardened. I don't know much about metalurgy, but could we anneal it and then re heat treat? I'd love to watch. Like I said when I met you at MRA, I'd like to learn how to do this stuff, but can't find a place.

Re range time, any time. I'll pm you my info.

Don

p.s. The Osprey Pistons are pretty well respected. As long as there isn't any binding of the push rod with either the barrel nut or the upper receiver, they are pretty much bullet proof. and so so simple.
 

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