The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[drgrant]

Do have a sample list yet? I think I saw Sig was not shipping MCX uppers to Ma.

Sig isn't the greatest example because they've been fags wrt shipping/MA cooties stuff long before any of this came about.

 

[DJBrad]

Sig isn't the greatest example because they've been fags wrt shipping/MA cooties stuff long before any of this came about.

Glad I got a very large list of those who ship any and everything to Ma.

 

[42!]

It thrashes and cries about it but ultimately does nothing.... because there's no way to contol uncontrolled parts and the laws provide no structural pieces to do so. In short it's one of many full on running jokes in this pile of shit law.

Putting aside for the moment that the law is unenforceable, that the structure to do so does not exist, and even that it will be thrown out when the SCOTUS get a say on it. What does the law actually say?

 

[pastera]

Let's be careful not to read into the law what is clearly not in it.
Uppers remain completely unregulated.

369 “Unfinished frame or receiver”, a forging, casting, printing, extrusion, machined body or similar item that:

(i) has reached a stage in manufacture when it may readily be completed or assembled to function as a frame or receiver; or
(ii) is marketed or sold to the public to become or be used as the frame or receiver of a functional firearm once completed or assembled;​

provided, however, that “unfinished frame or receiver” shall not include a component designed and intended for use in an antique firearm. 

The bolded portion is the critical language.
Why? Because in (i) the "readily converted" terminology is covered in existing case law - and the 80% parts sold objectively pass the ATF's standard.

So a new line of paperweight that requires some extra work wouldn't be marketed nor would it be readily convertable.

 

[Tarsook]

NES is the ONLY place I have heard this, so far.

This is the letter that went out from Ballard last weekend.


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/comments/1ewdowb/heavy_truck_dealer_states_they_will_not_be_able/#lightbox

 

[42!]

Let's be careful not to read into the law what is clearly not in it.
Uppers remain completely unregulated.


The bolded portion is the critical language.
Why? Because in (i) the "readily converted" terminology is covered in existing case law - and the 80% parts sold objectively pass the ATF's standard.

So a new line of paperweight that requires some extra work wouldn't be marketed nor would it be readily convertable.

agree with what you say, just not sure what post this is in response to

 

[EJFudd]

No - many suppliers will stop shipping to Mass but that's their own prerogative.

This is the real problem re: uppers and other assorted parts. Suppliers will look at our insane new law and decide that Massachusetts anything is not worth the risk. It's already happening and it's going to happen more as time goes on. They see our politicians are fanatic and nuts. Those folks who have a large list of suppliers still willing to ship to MA had better keep it updated 'cause I'll bet more than a few changes are forthcoming.

 

[JDL]

This is the letter that went out from Ballard last weekend.


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/comments/1ewdowb/heavy_truck_dealer_states_they_will_not_be_able/#lightbox

This is not entirely new Jeep is no longer supplying any gas or diesel Jeep vehicles to Jeep dealers in Massachusetts because Massachusetts signed onto the California CARB Act. They are only allocating electric or hybred vehicles to Massachusetts dealers.

 

[pastera]

agree with what you say, just not sure what post this is in response to

Plenty of "can we still buy this?" questions.

The big issues are long guns on the roster, no standard mag carry and expansion of red flags.
The ASF stuff will be before SCOTUS with Snopes, or it will be time to crack the four box open.

 

[PappyM3]

I prefer the BRN-180 uppers
I think they ship to MA, if not, from their FAQ

BRN-180 does not have user replaceable barrels.

 

[Coyote33]

Let's be careful not to read into the law what is clearly not in it.
Uppers remain completely unregulated.

Do they still need to have a non-flash-hider muzzle device, or just plain end with no device or threads?

This is the letter that went out from Ballard last weekend.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/comments/1ewdowb/heavy_truck_dealer_states_they_will_not_be_able/#lightbox

I wonder if this affect fire trucks, ambulances, etc., or if there is an exemption.

This is the real problem re: uppers and other assorted parts. Suppliers will look at our insane new law and decide that Massachusetts anything is not worth the risk. It's already happening and it's going to happen more as time goes on. They see our politicians are fanatic and nuts. Those folks who have a large list of suppliers still willing to ship to MA had better keep it updated 'cause I'll bet more than a few changes are forthcoming.

Well, they can do that. Or they can not do that, like Target Sports is doing. Like residents of Mass., they need to either fight it because it will migrate to other states, or just ignore it and fight it elsewhere. There WILL need to be a fight at some point.

This is not entirely new Jeep is no longer supplying any gas or diesel Jeep vehicles to Jeep dealers in Massachusetts because Massachusetts signed onto the California CARB Act. They are only allocating electric or hybred vehicles to Massachusetts dealers.

What? Have not heard this anywhere else, either. Someone needs to start a new thread on this in the off topic area.

Plenty of "can we still buy this?" questions.
The big issues are long guns on the roster, no standard mag carry and expansion of red flags.

What do you mean by "standard mag"? Does the state call these that?

The ASF stuff will be before SCOTUS with Snopes, or it will be time to crack the four box open.

I'm guessing that does not mean the "Snopes" that verifies if something is true or not.

 

[LT5]

Ya that's why I asked for people's input. I was just looking for a cheap 9mm because I spent 2800 on the spear. I just want to have a handgun to without spending another 500-1000.

CZ P10C




ETA proper NES response.
Nighthawk.

 

[pastera]

Do they still need to have a non-flash-hider muzzle device, or just plain end with no device or threads?

The new law drops the types of devices and only considers an actual threaded muzzle as a feature.
So you can have a permanently installed (pin/weld, silver solder, perimeter weld) device of your choice

I wonder if this affect fire trucks, ambulances, etc., or if there is an exemption.

If it is registered then it is effected.

What do you mean by "standard mag"? Does the state call these that?

State calls them "Large Capacity Feeding Devices" - however they are the standard magazines supplied with most semiautomatic guns.

I'm guessing that does not mean the "Snopes" that verifies if something is true or not.

Bianchi moved out of Maryland so is no longer part of the case - Snopes is the new plaintiff.
I stopped place (Bianchi) after calling out Snopes - guess I need to keep calling out the old name for a while longer.

 

[drgrant]

BRN-180 does not have user replaceable barrels.

Let's be honest though nobody (in that userbase) is changing that barrel out, ever.

 

[drgrant]

Let's be careful not to read into the law what is clearly not in it.
Uppers remain completely unregulated.


The bolded portion is the critical language.
Why? Because in (i) the "readily converted" terminology is covered in existing case law - and the 80% parts sold objectively pass the ATF's standard.

So a new line of paperweight that requires some extra work wouldn't be marketed nor would it be readily convertable.

I thought the language was more vague, at one point there was a bunch of noise in there about parts or some bullshit but maybe that was in one of the draft bills. Not that it matters anyways.

 

[Coyote33]

The new law drops the types of devices and only considers an actual threaded muzzle as a feature.
So you can have a permanently installed (pin/weld, silver solder, perimeter weld) device of your choice

Wondering if it would be better to wait until 10/23 or buy something before. Would just have to have whatever they put on the end welded, and that is it? Makes things easier.
Secondary question, do these guys still do welding on guns?
Micro Arc Welding, Inc. – Micro Dimensional Welding (formerly Pullman Arms)

State calls them "Large Capacity Feeding Devices" - however they are the standard magazines supplied with most semiautomatic guns.

So, does this mean greater than 10 rounds then?

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

The ASF stuff will be before SCOTUS with Snopes, or it will be time to crack the four box open.

Don't do that, it is Snope, and I already have a hard time not thinking of the leftist "fact checker" website every time I see the title of the suit.

 

[Picton]

Wondering if it would be better to wait until 10/23 or buy something before. Would just have to have whatever they put on the end welded, and that is it? Makes things easier.

It's even easier to stop worrying about it because it'll never be enforced unless you've drawn undue attention to yourself...

So, does this mean greater than 10 rounds then?

"Standard cap" has always been our side's preferred term for "mags holding more than ten rounds."

 

[pastera]

I thought the language was more vague, at one point there was a bunch of noise in there about parts or some bullshit but maybe that was in one of the draft bills. Not that it matters anyways.

A lot of us, myself included, were reading it from a doomsday perspective.
Now that some time has passed to allow a better reasoned review, the term "readily be converted" isn't defined in part (i) of the unfinished firearm definition.
From 18USC921a

(3)The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be convertedto expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;

So given no redefinition in Mass law, we would revert to the existing interpretation.
Under federal law, it is the firearm itself that must "readily be converted" not the frame or receiver. Further the federal government has defined what critical areas of a frame/receiver must be present for it to be considered readily convertible into a firearm under 18USC921(A)(3)(B)

So the Enforcement will likely need to rely on part (ii) of the definition

 

[pastera]

Don't do that, it is Snope, and I already have a hard time not thinking of the leftist "fact checker" website every time I see the title of the suit.

Point taken - I'm not going back and editing but will try to override habit and spellcheck

 

[drgrant]

Don't do that, it is Snope, and I already have a hard time not thinking of the leftist "fact checker" website every time I see the title of the suit.

Actually there is a silver lining to that cloud and that is if the case becomes prominent then whoever that guy is will automatically become more important than them....

 

[Dench]

I can’t speak for the Taurus, but you’re going to LOVE that Spear. I got mine right under the wire too and I have no regrets.

Your user name is problematic.

 

[pastera]

Wondering if it would be better to wait until 10/23 or buy something before. Would just have to have whatever they put on the end welded, and that is it? Makes things easier.

Anything that was on the shelf or in inventory on 8/1 is exempt so why bother waiting

Or buy what you want and just ride dirty until SCOTUS takes up an assault weapon case.
If they decide our way, you didn't have to pay to screw up your gun.
If they decide against us, use your imagination as to the long term outcome.

Secondary question, do these guys still do welding on guns?
Micro Arc Welding, Inc. – Micro Dimensional Welding (formerly Pullman Arms)

No idea - a pin and weld is less likely to overheat the barrel and easier to reverse with minimal damage

So, does this mean greater than 10 rounds then?

Yes, how many semiautomatics are shipped with magazines 10 rounds and under unless that particular model is purposely neutered for a ban state.

 

[Coyote33]

Plenty of "can we still buy this?" questions.
The big issues are long guns on the roster, no standard mag carry and expansion of red flags.

What do you mean by "standard mag"? Does the state call these that?

State calls them "Large Capacity Feeding Devices" - however they are the standard magazines supplied with most semiautomatic guns.

So, does this mean greater than 10 rounds then?

"Standard cap" has always been our side's preferred term for "mags holding more than ten rounds."

Yes, how many semiautomatics are shipped with magazines 10 rounds and under unless that particular model is purposely neutered for a ban state.

OK. Why not just say that in the first place then? I kind of thought this, but then with all the wordsmithing, thought I was missing something else. Just say what it is, instead of dancing around it!

Maybe I'm just slow or off, just getting back from vacation.

 

[chris_1001]

Are you saying I have expensive taste or something

Maybe... I think this should be your new avatar

 

[JDL]

I thought the language was more vague, at one point there was a bunch of noise in there about parts or some bullshit but maybe that was in one of the draft bills. Not that it matters anyways.

That was in one of the early house drafts. Some craziness about searlizing parts like barrels, slides ect. , and also having to notify the state anytime you made any change to your firearm . This was sheer stupidity and I guess someone with half a brain decided this would be impossible.

 

[JDL]

Wondering if it would be better to wait until 10/23 or buy something before. Would just have to have whatever they put on the end welded, and that is it? Makes things easier.
Secondary question, do these guys still do welding on guns?
Micro Arc Welding, Inc. – Micro Dimensional Welding (formerly Pullman Arms)



So, does this mean greater than 10 rounds then?

Yes anything pinned welded permently attached pinned and welded as long as the barrel isn't threaded. So all this can be done to a nonthereaded barrel. However a barrel that is threaded is an evil feature even if it has a permently attached device.

 

[chris_1001]

Yes anything pinned welded permently attached pinned and welded as long as the barrel isn't threaded. So all this can be done to a nonthereaded barrel. However a barrel that is threaded is an evil feature even if it has a permently attached device.

Wut?

Pinned and welded over a threaded barrel eliminates the thread.

Most all ar barrels are threaded

 

[LuvDog]

Maybe... I think this should be your new avatar


View attachment 912080

Look who’s talking

 

[pastera]

What do you mean by "standard mag"? Does the state call these that?








OK. Why not just say that in the first place then? I kind of thought this, but then with all the wordsmithing, thought I was missing something else. Just say what it is, instead of dancing around it!

Maybe I'm just slow or off, just getting back from vacation.

Why should I be forced to used Large Capacity Feeding Device when it is objectively a standard capacity item.

If I'm speaking to normal people outside of a ban state a large capacity magazine for a Glock 17 is a 30+ round magazine. And that logic holds true for most mid and full size guns


If you let them control the narrative by redefining language, you have already lost the war.