The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[scott-o]

I do not believe the FRB has such a list. I have little doubt they could get it if they wanted it.

If you are pulled over in MA and have an LTC it will show when they call you in. I have been told they are also given a list of firearms, or can quickly ask for it, however I DO NOT have any concrete evidence or proof of this.

A big honkin button on their PC screen from my understanding, can drill deeper to see a list of transactions.
More often than not might be your preliminary "good guy" check, until they get re-educated by the new trainings.

 

[Picton]

I can't remember if it's 60 or 90 days. Many well reasoned respected people believe that no matter how long it takes you to get your LTC, any gun you owned before you moved to MA is not an "acquisition" or "purchase" and therefore "registering" them through the FA10 system is not necessary.

These are people who probably aren't even aware they need to be worried about this stupid new law: folks migrating here with guns.

I was in that boat many years ago. I came here with six firearms and they were illegally possessed for about four years because I had no idea I needed a license to have them, lol.

Newcomers to the state are, as of 02AUG, going to have no way to acquire an LTC, and therefore they'll be forced to become felons after the grace period expires from what I can see.

 

[APFSDS]

In the past they raised a stink if the credit card billing address was in MA.

In the past year or two I ordered a glock slide from them with MA billing, shipped to TN. No problems.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

A big honkin button on their PC screen from my understanding, can drill deeper to see a list of transactions.
More often than not might be your preliminary "good guy" check, until they get re-educated by the new trainings.

I couldn't tell you. I have only been pulled over for one time in the last 30+ years for speeding. I was on my way home from the range. I was packing and range bag on front seat in clear view.

LEO took my registration/license and went to cruiser. Came back a few minutes later and said since I didn't have any violations in the last 10 years he was giving me a warning. Looked at the range bag and said make sure to take the guns home before you go other places.

 

[milktree]

Newcomers to the state are, as of 02AUG, going to have no way to acquire an LTC,

I have yet to find anything to suggest that, other than the assertion that the state might promulgate "live firearms training"[1] before they promulgate all the other requirements and in that window it won't be possible to run safety classes.

Or that the carve-out for live fire until the requirements exist *only* applies to live fire, so the other requirements go into effect 8/2, making issuing a safety certificate impossible.

Is that what you're talking about?


[1] Why the f*** did they say "live firearms training" instead of "live fire training" like everyone else in the universe? "live firearms training" sound like it could mean, "not over zoom" or "in person" or "not from a book"

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Don't care who you support but the fact is the vast majority of gun owners in America do NOTHING for the cause.

That will change on the 10/23 as no one isn’t going to be affected by this bullshit.

 

[Picton]

I have yet to find anything to suggest that, other than the assertion that the state might promulgate "live firearms training"[1] before they promulgate all the other requirements and in that window it won't be possible to run safety classes.

Or that the carve-out for live fire until the requirements exist *only* applies to live fire, so the other requirements go into effect 8/2, making issuing a safety certificate impossible.

Is that what you're talking about?


[1] Why the f*** did they say "live firearms training" instead of "live fire training" like everyone else in the universe? "live firearms training" sound like it could mean, "not over zoom" or "in person" or "not from a book"

My understanding is that they won't be accepting new LTC apps after 01AUG because the old certificates won't be any good... and there are, as of now, no new certificates in existence until the staties feel like drawing up a curriculum.

If that's wrong, I welcome correction.

 

[HARRYM]

That will change on the 10/23 as no one isn’t going to be affected by this bullshit.

I have never been an optimist.

 

[pastera]

That seems to apply to nonresidents who do NOT have a temporary or nonresident LTC or FID.

Concur
People are arguing two different subjects with each other because they don't know how screwed up Mass law really is and how far from reality it goes

 

[scott-o]

My understanding is that they won't be accepting new LTC apps after 01AUG because the old certificates won't be any good... and there are, as of now, no new certificates in existence until the staties feel like drawing up a curriculum.

If that's wrong, I welcome correction.

A right delayed is a right denied...am i right?

 

[pastera]

What is being questioned is where exactly is; "This is the new wording for non_resadent licenses" block of text coming from that JDL posted up discussion. As far as it appears its not actual language from the bill, but rather a summation someone put together for certain portions of the bill.

That's why anyone arguing from anything but the signed text is a fool on a fools errand

The only real exception is referring to any summary document the legislature itself sends out as a method to clarify an ambiguous area.

 

[fred6052000]

Does that mean the instructors also need to get advanced training or certifications in order to cover the new curriculum? If so, that would take months in addition to the time needed for the state police to develop the new curriculum. I’m guessing the state is not going to issue any LTCs for a year or maybe more.

 

[pastera]

Yes, we're "worried" that those rifles "could be considered illegal." What a joke.



A bunch of constitutional scholars no doubt. I wonder if any of them would be willing to make a wager on it.

This bill WILL stand up to any level of scrutiny until the Supreme Court.

Other than not issuing licenses and lack of a roster for basic bolt/pump guns the chance of relief in the 1st circuit and below is approaching zero.

Licenses might get some relief that until a new program is developed the old one is valid

The roster stuff is likely to be clarified by the state as they didn't mean to include non-semiautomatic rifles and shotguns and will blanket add a roster entry for general amnesty of FUD guns.

Meaningful relief will be hard fought and delayed at every turn unless another state brings the question to scotus.

 

[milktree]

My understanding is that they won't be accepting new LTC apps after 01AUG because the old certificates won't be any good... and there are, as of now, no new certificates in existence until the staties feel like drawing up a curriculum.

If that's wrong, I welcome correction.

Well... I'm not going to speak with authority because I can't stupid my brain enough to understand what they were thinking or intend to do.

The text of the law:

Section 131P.
(a) Any person applying for the issuance of a license or card under sections , 131 or 131F shall, in addition to the requirements set forth in this chapter, submit to the licensing authority a basic firearms safety certificate; provided, however, that a certificate issued under section 14 of chapter 131 evidencing satisfactory completion of a hunter education course shall serve as a valid substitute for a basic firearms safety certificate required under this section for the issuance of a firearm identification card pursuant to section 129B. Persons lawfully possessing a firearm identification card or license to carry firearms on August 1, 2024, shall be exempt from this section upon expiration of such card or license and when applying for renewal of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement. No application for the issuance of a firearm identification card or license to carry shall be accepted or processed by the licensing authority without such certificate attached thereto

Because there's two sections, one for "people who have an LTC before 8/2" and one for "people who have an LTC before live fire is defined", I read that to mean there could exist people who have an LTC before live fire is required and after 8/1.

It's possible that all those people are ones who have already applied by 8/1, or maybe people who already took a course by 8/1 and apply between 8/1 and when live fire becomes established.

The "you know what they meant" reading of this is "until all the requirements are promulgated, the old course is fine and we're going to carry on as before."

Insert "10/23" for "8/1" as appropriate, since the bill doesn't actually go into law until then, but that's not really the point we're discussing.

Edit to add:

It's not clear to me from the wording if "such requirement" means "live firearms training" only, or "all the new requirements".

Maybe the state will have all the material ready-to-go before 10/23 and incorporating it into the class will be easy.

 

[pastera]

The NRA will just steal any dollars raised to fight this law and use them for other expenses. They simply cannot be trusted.

Or will purposely scuttle the process.

 

[milktree]

Does that mean the instructors also need to get advanced training or certifications in order to cover the new curriculum? If so, that would take months in addition to the time needed for the state police to develop the new curriculum. I’m guessing the state is not going to issue any LTCs for a year or maybe more.

Nobody knows.

It's possible they'll supply some PowerPoint slides or a video and require us to show them, and specify the minimums of live fire and let us sort it out; or maybe they'll require us to go to a class and re-apply to be instructors. There's nothing in the bill that gives us any hints, just that there will be some new requirements, and the specifics of some of those the state is going to hand us.

 

[novo]

No the law is very specific in its wording renewals are exempt, and you do not need to take the new training 08/01/2024 date no new applications will be excepted without the certificate. So if you currently have a LTC or you are applying for a renewal you do not have to take the new training.

Hey just wanted to get back to you about my current LTC application that is pending background check. I contacted the FRB about my application. I asked if they were still going to procces applications in light of the new firearms legislation passed. An the lady explained that applications will still be processed by the FRB. She also stated that there was no plan to stop processing applications. But as for my local PD I haven't got a response from them yet. But I would hope that they continue to procces applications that have already been submitted.

 

[pastera]

Just to be 100% straight with this, a pre 7/20 owned and possessed by a Ma. LTC holder than transferred to Ma. LTC holder thru the portal after 7/20 is now illegal? Thanks for all the time you've taken for trying to inform dumbasses like me on this.

No, the gun has a transaction listed pre 7/20/16 so it's good to go

 

[milktree]

Hey just wanted to get back to you about my current LTC application that is pending background check. I contacted the FRB about my application. I asked if they were still going to procces applications in light of the new firearms legislation passed. An the lady explained that applications will still be processed by the FRB. She also stated that there was no plan to stop processing applications. But as for my local PD I haven't got a response from them yet. But I would hope that they continue to procces applications that have already been submitted.

That's good to hear. It's the "it makes sense to do it that way" approach.

 

[JDL]

Does that mean the instructors also need to get advanced training or certifications in order to cover the new curriculum? If so, that would take months in addition to the time needed for the state police to develop the new curriculum. I’m guessing the state is not going to issue any LTCs for a year or maybe more.

Yes this is the way I interpret this. We will all need new training and would have to be recertified as instructors. This also looks like a way for the state to cut back on the number of certified insreuctors that will be available to teach the new program. The new law states that the instructors will no longer be able to issue the certificates the certificates will be issued by the State Police so just one more layer of crap for the new applicant to go through before even being able to apply for a licence. GOAL has posted to stay tuned for more information on this..

 

[JDL]

That's good to hear. It's the "it makes sense to do it that way" approach.

Good to know

 

[fred6052000]

Yes this is the way I interpret this. We will all need new training and would have to be recertified as instructors. This also looks like a way for the state to cut back on the number of certified insreuctors that will be available to teach the new program. The new law states that the instructors will no longer be able to issue the certificates the certificates will be issued by the State Police so just one more layer of crap for the new applicant to go through before even being able to apply for a licence. GOAL has posted to stay tuned for more information on this..

Damn, I had my certificate but haven't applied yet.

 

[milktree]

Yes this is the way I interpret this. We will all need new training and would have to be recertified as instructors. This also looks like a way for the state to cut back on the number of certified insreuctors that will be available to teach the new program. The new law states that the instructors will no longer be able to issue the certificates the certificates will be issued by the State Police so just one more layer of crap for the new applicant to go through before even being able to apply for a licence. GOAL has posted to stay tuned for more information on this..

Can you cite that?

I read it as "new instructors pay $50, renewals pay $10 (if I'm thinking of the same language)

The fact that we'll have to submit to CJIS and then CJIS will send it to the student is idiotic, but not really part of "will we need more certifications?" or "will the existing certs be valid?"

 

[John2006]

No, the gun has a transaction listed pre 7/20/16 so it's good to go

But if it’s a Tavor or say a CZ Bren 2, it’s not a “duplicate”… Whole thing is such a show it’s not even funny…

 

[kevin9]

Does that mean the instructors also need to get advanced training or certifications in order to cover the new curriculum? If so, that would take months in addition to the time needed for the state police to develop the new curriculum. I’m guessing the state is not going to issue any LTCs for a year or maybe more.

Check with @HooVooLoo. I'm sure he's in the loop and will be able to tell us all exactly how this new, wonderful training curriculum works.

 

[EJFudd]

NRA challenging new laws:

https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/nra-challenging-new-mass-gun-law/

Good news (I guess)... But clueless, piss poor article by one of the usual liberal DimocRAT suspects.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Changing text??

Anyone else seeing the text of the law changing over the last few days??? Now it also says corrected in red at the top of the law.

I was going to respond to @Picton quote because i looked at it earlier and quoted law as it was very specific.

My understanding is that they won't be accepting new LTC apps after 01AUG because the old certificates won't be any good... and there are, as of now, no new certificates in existence until the staties feel like drawing up a curriculum.

If that's wrong, I welcome correction.

This is my quote from yesterday or the day before so I went back to get the line number

Sadly it is really clear. “No license ISSUED AFTER AUGUST 1”

Any license applied for at this point can’t possibly “BE ISSUED” before August first. A defacto ban on obtaining firearms until the state gets around to updating the new requirements and figures out how to issue certificates.

This should be a slam dunk for an immediate injunction.

Now it says:



Maybe I’m losing my mind but I damn sure know what I looked at and quoted but now it’s gone. Anyone else experiencing this????

 

[scott-o]

The State's position seems to be a copy/duplicate could not be cured through deleting enumerated features. Therefore all C&D firearms always were assault weapons.
So the the 7/20 exemption from C&D definition of an ASW therefore C&D with compliance mods would be considered as lawfully possessed.

Post 7/20 the compliance work doesn't matter because it still fails the C&D part of the definition and therefore was not lawfully possessed regardless of the state not pursuing charges.

So then the 8/1 exemption covers all non-C&D or enumerated firearms that would fail the new ASW definition.

So a pre-7/20 C&D (including pre-94 anything) would be lawful after 8/1 since they were lawfully possessed.
However any C&D or enumerated firearm after 7/20 is banned for not being lawfully possessed.
Firearms considered an ASW only for features will be exempt as long as they are legally held on 8/1 (they are in compliance)

Once the smoke clears, all of the exempted guns can have as many features as you want but post 7/20 C&D must be dispossessed before the 90 day enactment delay window

I don't agree with the interpretation but it is what makes sense from what the state has said they intended to enact - therefore that's what the police are likely to enforce until a court finds different.

Forgive me if I am not clear, im just as dumb as the next guy, but I've been following most of the posts here regularly but can you explain to me how does your statement "post 7/20 C&D must be dispossessed before the 90 day enactment delay window" opinion in your post here work with "My opinion is that is the intention of the weird language - from 7/20/16 on you can possess those copies and duplicates but cannot remove the compliance modifications." in your other post here.

Is this simply your opinion vs what you think theirs will be?

 

[BigGreen2000]

Yes this is the way I interpret this. We will all need new training and would have to be recertified as instructors. This also looks like a way for the state to cut back on the number of certified insreuctors that will be available to teach the new program. The new law states that the instructors will no longer be able to issue the certificates the certificates will be issued by the State Police so just one more layer of crap for the new applicant to go through before even being able to apply for a licence. GOAL has posted to stay tuned for more information on this..

Funny (not funny) how everything license-related here in Mass is run through Law Enforcement (EOPS and now MSP). Meanwhile, in Florida CCW licenses were under Dept. of Agriculture! Shows what Mass thinks of 2A.

 

[NorthofBean617]

I heard all non-mass compliant firearms will be banned from private transfer post 8/1, even handguns. Is that true ??

Will I be able to private transfer a non-mass compliant handgun that does not violate the assault weapons ban after 8/1 as part of my 4 private transfer sales per year ? example: if I own a Glock 17 gen 5 prior to 8/1, will I be able to private transfer to my brother in law who has his LTC ?