The Conference Committee has sent official language out - h.4885

[pastera]

If that’s the case, surely you can tell us the section or line number.

The two of you are talking about two completely different things

Non-resident permit = out of state permit
Temporary permit = Mass LTC issued to a Non-resident

 

[MGnoob]

Mind you I haven’t read this thing. But I already see some truck size loopholes I could drive through.

 

[milktree]

The two of you are talking about two completely different things

Non-resident permit = out of state permit
Temporary permit = Mass LTC issued to a Non-resident

That’s why I want the actual line number or section; so I can see what he’s talking about.

And really, if you’re quoting stuff, you should always provide a reference if at all possible.

 

[not new guy]

It also looks like binary triggers are going to be illegal too.

 

[Atlantis]

The State's position seems to be a copy/duplicate could not be cured through deleting enumerated features. Therefore all C&D firearms always were assault weapons.
So the the 7/20 exemption from C&D definition of an ASW therefore C&D with compliance mods would be considered as lawfully possessed.

Post 7/20 the compliance work doesn't matter because it still fails the C&D part of the definition and therefore was not lawfully possessed regardless of the state not pursuing charges.

So then the 8/1 exemption covers all non-C&D or enumerated firearms that would fail the new ASW definition.

So a pre-7/20 C&D (including pre-94 anything) would be lawful after 8/1 since they were lawfully possessed.
However any C&D or enumerated firearm after 7/20 is banned for not being lawfully possessed.
Firearms considered an ASW only for features will be exempt as long as they are legally held on 8/1 (they are in compliance)

Once the smoke clears, all of the exempted guns can have as many features as you want but post 7/20 C&D must be dispossessed before the 90 day enactment delay window

I don't agree with the interpretation but it is what makes sense from what the state has said they intended to enact - therefore that's what the police are likely to enforce until a court finds different.

This being correct depends on believing that multiple active FFL’s have been engaging in illegal sales or at the very least enabling hundreds of Ma residents to assemble and register unlawful rifles. This happening without a shred of adverse enforcement action from the state.

Alternatively, the executive branch is in fact not able to create law, and therefore post 7/20 rifles are in fact lawfully possessed because the law didn’t change on 7/20.

In this strange reality where the FFL’s with their skin in the game aren’t willfully breaking the law…. Your post 7/20 rifles can now (after 8/1) be converted into whatever configuration you want since they are covered as grandfathered ASW’s with no need to pass the features test.

 

[pastera]

My take away from this is if it was “lawfully possessed” is a definite trap because it was not lawfully possessed if it wasn’t compliant at time or currently meeting 1994 pre-ban still hold some weight.. but now that it’s an actual law instead of just a decree there’s a lot of felons and weight. I can’t imagine how many non-1994 A.R. 15s are out there with evil features. I mean you probably gotta go to the gun show and buy a noncompliant AK brand new for nothing and everybody did just like all the drums and shit they selling weren’t legit.

Go with the worst case scenario and that’s what they’re gonna do and I’m saying you guys are all a bunch of f***ers for breaking the law. I have to assume 90% of the people didn’t even know.

I am sitting and safe with all my old stuff… doesn’t make the new law right and I find it morally repugnant

Especially how my pre-1994 mags now can’t be carried no bullshit

Are there posts where you have commented on the 2016 reinterpretation?
If yes then you were fully aware and chose to break the law as explained by the state.

That's how a Mass court will determine it.

 

[MGnoob]

Are there posts where you have commented on the 2016 reinterpretation?
If yes then you were fully aware and chose to break the law as explained by the state.

That's how a Mass court will determine it.

I haven’t I’m not even close to 2016 reinterpretation I don’t think I’ve bought a gun since…. I don’t even remember. if I did, it’s a bunch of old shit. I’m gonna tear through my inventory tomorrow. I’ll show you some really old shit.

But don’t worry when I get in there I’m gonna engrave my Ithaca shotgun with a serial number… register it

I’m trying to actually do it, but the number is gonna be


View: https://youtu.be/0Whn0YzNG4s?si=bhWFLwwSUw17lw8o


I think it’s a violation of rights to limit how many numbers I can engrave on a gun that was un serialized that manufacturing.

I’m gonna start using my C&r to buy a bunch of really old shit..

 

[JDL]

Do you seriously think "shitbox with tail light out" is probable cause to search a car under suspicion of maybe there might be an icky rifle in the locked box in the trunk?

Anything can be probable cause.

 

[pastera]

That’s why I want the actual line number or section; so I can see what he’s talking about.

And really, if you’re quoting stuff, you should always provide a reference if at all possible.

Nonresident stuff starts around 1288
Section 129C(i)

This is an ongoing interpretive problem with people not familiar with Mass stupidity

 

[MAJoe]

The State's position seems to be a copy/duplicate could not be cured through deleting enumerated features. Therefore all C&D firearms always were assault weapons.
So the the 7/20 exemption from C&D definition of an ASW therefore C&D with compliance mods would be considered as lawfully possessed.

Post 7/20 the compliance work doesn't matter because it still fails the C&D part of the definition and therefore was not lawfully possessed regardless of the state not pursuing charges.

So then the 8/1 exemption covers all non-C&D or enumerated firearms that would fail the new ASW definition.

So a pre-7/20 C&D (including pre-94 anything) would be lawful after 8/1 since they were lawfully possessed.
However any C&D or enumerated firearm after 7/20 is banned for not being lawfully possessed.
Firearms considered an ASW only for features will be exempt as long as they are legally held on 8/1 (they are in compliance)

Once the smoke clears, all of the exempted guns can have as many features as you want but post 7/20 C&D must be dispossessed before the 90 day enactment delay window

I don't agree with the interpretation but it is what makes sense from what the state has said they intended to enact - therefore that's what the police are likely to enforce until a court finds different.

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how this plays out and how it’s tested.

 

[pastera]

The next panic after 8/1 will be ammo don’t wait 90 days.Buy from the dealers that have been helping you during this rifle panic so they can try to keep thier doors open or we won’t have anywhere to buy anything.

This bill doesn't effect out of state shipping to an LTC holder since it only effect those with a Mass dealer license (for in person presentation of an LTC)

 

[MGnoob]

The next thing I’m wondering in this state, you might want to go with the judge over a jury… the only jury trial I went to charges got dropped before we got there because it was nonsense.

 

[pastera]

The next thing I’m wondering in this state, you might want to go with the judge over a jury… the only jury trial I went to charges got dropped before we got there because it was nonsense.

Agree - we who are familiar with the terms and history can't figure it out.
The average person is going to just get overloaded and figure if the state says you had a killy, evil gun then it must be a killy, evil gun.

 

[Coda]

They never shipped to MA. At least not in the past couple of years.

They most certainly did ship to MA. I don't have this anymore but it was a real nice rifle kit for a reasonable price.

And that is what sucks.. They had great products, great customer service and were easy to deal with. Then they caved.

 

[sbhaven]

That is a direct cut and past from the bill

Then surely you can provide the specific page or section/line number that came from in the bill. Because when I search the bill, obtained from the MA website, there is is no "nonresident licenses" text to be found in the H4885.pdf file. In fact searching for "nonresident" turns up 9 entries, none of them have the word "licenses" after it. I tried searching for other terms from what you quoted and are not finding similar language in the bill.

 

[MGnoob]

Agree - we who are familiar with the terms and history can't figure it out.
The average person is going to just get overloaded and figure if the state says you had a killy, evil gun then it must be a killy, evil gun.

I’d hire the most incompetent cheapest attorney on the f***ing planet do his job for him when I lost that the grounds for a new trial Trust me, I’ve waited out worse

But I have dealt with a few judges, who gave them the backhand just for their own incompetence..

I’d rather hire 10 lawyers for five grand apiece then hire one stupid f***ing a**h*** for 50 grand. The results are gonna be the same.

The f***ed up thing is while you’re guns are all in the vault they won’t let you sell them because they’re gonna call them “evidence”

I said before I’ve represented myself over a public defender worked out just fine but that’s a definitely a risky call but all you’re gonna get from a public public defender is telling you to pleed guilty.. regardless of your innocence or guilt

 

[LakeTrout]

No way is this passing a constitutional challenge and also, this is why we need reciprocity. BS like this.

Depends who presides over the challenge. In MA? Good luck. At the federal level? If you get it to SCOTUS before Kamala packs the court, maybe.

 

[Woodsloafer]

Yes, and I got out of the state at the very first opportunity......20 minutes after the closing on the sale of my house.

Do you have a plan to leave?

LOL, just wanted to put it in context that you stayed until retirement age, didn't cut things short to get out of MA earlier.

I have a couple more years until retirement (I'm in a municipal job as well and will be done at 60). I will still have a house here, my friends and family are too important to leave, but am looking at finding a house on a lake in NH and establishing residency there once I have more time to enjoy it.

 

[LakeTrout]

You people that accept this bullshit because your stuff is grandfathered and otherwise don’t care, only care about yourselves, disgust me. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

It’s frustrating. But what should they do?

 

[milktree]

Nonresident stuff starts around 1288
Section 129C(i)

This is an ongoing interpretive problem with people not familiar with Mass stupidity

That seems to apply to nonresidents who do NOT have a temporary or nonresident LTC or FID.

 

[Individualist]

My opinion is that if you get jammed up under this pile of horse shit the BEST you would be able to do is:

1) spend a lot of money to hire a good lawyer, who will
2) negotiate that you will “voluntarily” give up everything evil and not appeal, if
3) they don’t make you a PP, so that
4) you can move to Free America and still enjoy life as intended under the Constitution.

 

[sbhaven]

Non-residents are issued a temporary LTC under 131f
That info is for people who don't possess a Mass Temporary permit (LTC)

What is being questioned is where exactly is; "This is the new wording for non_resadent licenses" block of text coming from that JDL posted up discussion. As far as it appears its not actual language from the bill, but rather a summation someone put together for certain portions of the bill.

 

[dcmdon]

They most certainly did ship to MA. I don't have this anymore but it was a real nice rifle kit for a reasonable price.

And that is what sucks.. They had great products, great customer service and were easy to deal with. Then they caved.

View attachment 903194

You can still get the stuff. Have it shipped to a friend in a free state.

Or if it's a firearm that is a long gun, have it shipped to a dealer in a free state.

I've done it several times with them.

 

[Matt_SERE]

You can still get the stuff. Have it shipped to a friend in a free state.

Or if it's a firearm that is a long gun, have it shipped to a dealer in a free state.

I've done it several times with them.

In the past they raised a stink if the credit card billing address was in MA.

 

[milktree]

This is the new wording for non_resadent licenses.
Nonresident licenses will only be issued for purposes of A firearm competition.o A nonresident who is in the employ of a bank, public utility corporation, or a firm engaged in the business of transferring monies, or business of a similar nature.o A firm licensed as a private detective whose application is endorsed by an employer.o A nonresident who is a member of the armed services and is stationed within theterritorial boundaries of the commonwealth and has the written consent of their commanding officer.• Nonresident law enforcement prohibited from possessing “assault style firearms”.• A nonresident at least 18 years and can only possess common long guns and ammunition if the nonresident has a permit or license issued from their state of residence. That license must meet requirements of a Massachusetts license with the following exemptions.o to hunt during hunting season with a nonresident hunting license or a hunting license or permit lawfully issued from their state of residence which has substantially similar requirements to those in section 11 of chapter 131;o while on a firing or shooting rangeo while traveling in or through the commonwealth, provided that they are unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 126B and 126Co while at a firearm showing or display organized by a regularly existing gun collectors’ club or association. • Nonresident Junior shooters/hunters under 18 cannot possess a pistol or revolver for any purpose.• Nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, they also have on their person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by their destination state. • A nonresident may carry a firearm on their person while in a vehicle lawfully traveling through the commonwealth, provided, however, that the firearm may not leave the vehicle and if the firearm is outside its owner’s direct control it must meet safe storage requirements

What is being questioned is where exactly is; "This is the new wording for non_resadent licenses" block of text coming from that JDL posted up discussion. As far as it appears its not actual language from the bill, but rather a summation someone put together for certain portions of the bill.

So, this quote appears to be from C. 140 §131F of EXISTING law, not part of H.4885.

Therefore there is no change.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I’d hire the most incompetent cheapest attorney on the f***ing planet do his job for him when I lost that the grounds for a new trial Trust me, I’ve waited out worse

But I have dealt with a few judges, who gave them the backhand just for their own incompetence..

I’d rather hire 10 lawyers for five grand apiece then hire one stupid f***ing a**h*** for 50 grand. The results are gonna be the same.

The f***ed up thing is while you’re guns are all in the vault they won’t let you sell them because they’re gonna call them “evidence”

I said before I’ve represented myself over a public defender worked out just fine but that’s a definitely a risky call but all you’re gonna get from a public public defender is telling you to pleed guilty.. regardless of your innocence or guilt

The tine to go pro-se is when you would find losing preferable to paying the legal fees. That way, you never end up wishing you had hired counsel. Routine traffic tickets are an example this concept.

The stun gun case from the Shaws Ashland parking lot that made it to SCOTUS (our side won) was handled y a pulic defender.

 

[MGnoob]

The tine to go pro-se is when you would find losing preferable to paying the legal fees. That way, you never end up wishing you had hired counsel.

The stun gun case from the Shaws Ashland parking lot that made it to SCOTUS (our side won) was handled y a pulic defender.

Wonder if he’s still a public defender or in private practice now… so my cheapest lawyers were the best. Some of my most expensive were the worst…

It depends if you’re doing civil or criminal or what your commitment to winning and losing is and how you define winning and losing.

We are there to start telling you about. We’re trying to mitigate the outcome…. that’s when it gets dicey. It’s a pretty standard line but when you win after they tell you shit like that, they feel stupid.

You’re supposed to get a zealous representation, regardless of what you did or didn’t do.


That shits easy till you start dealing with all the agencies on your own.

I won’t go to the details, but I have some lawyers outright. Tell the prosecutors shit that they’re not supposed to do. It would’ve been a mistral but “we won“ yeah that bill wasn’t worth it but a better off losing.


If I could go back in time, I’d be a lawyer a licensed to steal.

Check this guy out he’s got billboards everywhere. It’s a play on breaking bad I contemplate hiring this guy.

 

[MGnoob]

View: https://youtu.be/jvlEqAjg8aU?si=yCSQsFZe4KJAzIw6


This is what it’s all gonna come down with this court and bullshit

 

[fred6052000]

My guess is 2 years is very optimistic for any system the state will depoly. Hell they are still working the bugs out of the web service they began transitioning to in 2016.

So I have almost 2 years to decide whether to stay in MA or not.

 

[Woodsloafer]

NRA challenging new laws:

https://www.wwlp.com/news/massachusetts/nra-challenging-new-mass-gun-law/