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Thoughts on a subcompact doublestack 1911?

T

T-Unit

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I'm not a 1911 guy, but I came across one of these and it impressed me enough to consider getting one as I like small .45's with short barrels (less velocity loss compared to higher pressure calibers) and the doublestack design means it holds 10 rounds.

This isn't so much a discussion on Rock Island or this particular gun itself, but the concept as a whole.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYLeKRVvqlc
 
Short cycle.
Its trying to fling a 55 gallon drum with less slide travel. I doubt much has improved over the last 50 or so years.
Thats why these thing fare better with narrower cases.
Glock tried to remedy the same problem with its own proprietary g.a.p. round.
As much of a .45 acp fan I am, it does have its limits when it comes to smaller framed bottom feeds.
 
What's the deal with slide travel? Does the slide move too quickly to the rear that it doesn't give the magazine spring enough time to push the next round into place to be stripped off and fed into the chamber?

I can see that being an issue as somebody slapping in some 70 year old milsurp GI mags with weak springs and a gritty follower, but I'd think with this being a proprietary doublestack using mags made by the manufacturer that Rock Island would have those issues figured out.
 
It may be a double stack, but its still a single feed.
It was never a mag issue.
It wasn't as prominent in govt and commander style frames (frames are same size) but it was more noticable in the officer sized frames.
Govt and commander sized frames had nearly the same amount of slide travel, which was relevant to the size, or at least the diameter of the cartridge.
Yes, there is a slide length difference between the 2, but the lower receivers are the same size.
The officers version was scaled down substantially. The slide width is the same, but theres less travel and dwell time due to the short rails. Just barely enough to clear. So because it cycles "quicker" or tries to go back into battery over less traveled distance, the slide closing while the case is still trying to eject wasn't uncommon. Its just too fat of a case.

The officer sized frames work way better in 9 or .380, or whatever that new super carry is, just because whats trying to eject is taking up way less space.
 
T-Unit said:
I'm not a 1911 guy, but I came across one of these and it impressed me enough to consider getting one as I like small .45's with short barrels (less velocity loss compared to higher pressure calibers) and the doublestack design means it holds 10 rounds.
Click to expand...
Not sure if serious but short 45s are endemically f***ing terrible once you get away from glock/xd/s&w...... the para warthog, as an example is one of the worst guns ever made. A 3in DS 1911 = I can hear that thing jamming over the internet... 🤣
 
Who is this type of gun marketed towards? 1911 people, even the double stack guys, probably won't go much lower than 4" barrel and corresponding grip size. And I feel that if you really want a tiny double stack .45 for actual EDC, you'll end up with a Glock 30. Seems like a gun with no audience.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Who is this type of gun marketed towards? 1911 people, even the double stack guys, probably won't go much lower than 4" barrel and corresponding grip size. And I feel that if you really want a tiny double stack .45 for actual EDC, you'll end up with a Glock 30. Seems like a gun with no audience.
Click to expand...

It's marketed to boomer fudds and other weirdos who are dumb enough to think that carrying a DS 1911 with an ultra short barrel is a good idea. Anything that has a shorter bbl than an XDs, G30 etc is f***ing stupid. or even a colt officers mod is at least a bit longer barrel. At under 4" 45 ACP velocity loss is DRAMATIC, and 3.5s are pretty bad even c*** hairs lower than that get worse quickly.
 
drgrant said:
It's marketed to boomer fudds and other weirdos who are dumb enough to think that carrying a DS 1911 with an ultra short barrel is a good idea. Anything that has a shorter bbl than an XDs, G30 etc is f***ing stupid. or even a colt officers mod is at least a bit longer barrel. At under 4" 45 ACP velocity loss is DRAMATIC, and 3.5s are pretty bad even c*** hairs lower than that get worse quickly.
Click to expand...

Just figured boomer fudds wouldn't want anything under commander for 45.
 
My personal rule is to steer clear of any .45 1911 smaller than Commander size. The gun was designed to be big, and just runs better that way in my experience. You want sub-compact in the same manual of arms, you're better off dropping caliber size as you decrease mass. I'd agree with what others have said about the G30 being your best bet if you want to stick with .45 but go midget style.
 
I’ve had good luck with 4” Kimber Compacts, but I won’t go any shorter than that. As for a double stack short 1911, I’m interested in the Wilson Combat EDC 9, but nothing smaller than that.
 
My 3" DE 1911U has experienced zero malfunctions, but it's been fed only 230gr ball ammo. It's one of my favorite plinkers. I'll see if I can induce a hiccup the next time I have it out.
 
pupchow said:
My 3" DE 1911U has experienced zero malfunctions, but it's been fed only 230gr ball ammo. It's one of my favorite plinkers. I'll see if I can induce a hiccup the next time I have it out.
Click to expand...

Well to counter that point I knew someone who owned a Para Warthog that never went through a full mag without a malfunction. ;) 😆
 
drgrant said:
It's marketed to boomer fudds and other weirdos who are dumb enough to think that carrying a DS 1911 with an ultra short barrel is a good idea. Anything that has a shorter bbl than an XDs, G30 etc is f***ing stupid. or even a colt officers mod is at least a bit longer barrel. At under 4" 45 ACP velocity loss is DRAMATIC, and 3.5s are pretty bad even c*** hairs lower than that get worse quickly.
Click to expand...
.45 doesn't have much velocity to begin with, but yeah, there's velocity loss, but it's not a guarantee that hollow points won't expand and there's been tests at 100 yards where the 230 JHP stuff does just fine. The premium stuff is even better because the powders used get up to speed so fast they don't gain much from a longer barrel and they use the better hollow points. There's also the stuff made specifically for short barrels, Speer makes Gold Dots optimized for short barrels.

I don't see velocity loss with .45 as that big a deal because even with a longer barrel you're not gaining enough to make it worth the larger overall package. With something like 10mm where the velocity increase with a longer barrel is approaching 150, maybe 200 fps with 200gr projectiles... that's significant and worth carrying a longer barrel for.
 
T-Unit said:
For me the appeal is something different that also retains some practicality because generally a .45 that small a size doesn't hold 10 rds.

Also, it'd be my first 1911.
Click to expand...
Cool idea to have 10rd of .45 on tap in a small package, but I dunno how great that'd be to shoot and reliability-wise. Subcompact 380s are already less than enjoyable to shoot...

A lot of guys coming from the full size/compact polymer 9mm world like myself found a full size 1911 fine, but a commander is pretty snappy from what I'm used to, especially in a lightweight frame.

If you've never owned a 1911 (never shot one?) I'd go to a rental range and compare a full size 1911, a LW commander and your normal striker fired 9mm. See how it feels and try and imagine the commander but 4x more snappy, with a shorter sight radius and borderline unusable grip. Is that something you'd be comfortable putting several shots on target with, quickly and under
duress?

Not trying to crap on your ideas but there's kind of a reason the DS subcompact 1911 market isn't really a thing.
 
puška m70 said:
Cool idea to have 10rd of .45 on tap in a small package, but I dunno how great that'd be to shoot and reliability-wise. Subcompact 380s are already less than enjoyable to shoot...

A lot of guys coming from the full size/compact polymer 9mm world like myself found a full size 1911 fine, but a commander is pretty snappy from what I'm used to, especially in a lightweight frame.

If you've never owned a 1911 (never shot one?) I'd go to a rental range and compare a full size 1911, a LW commander and your normal striker fired 9mm. See how it feels and try and imagine the commander but 4x more snappy, with a shorter sight radius and borderline unusable grip. Is that something you'd be comfortable putting several shots on target with, quickly and under
duress?

Not trying to crap on your ideas but there's kind of a reason the DS subcompact 1911 market isn't really a thing.
Click to expand...
Tough to find a range near me that's going to have a Commander for rent and I'm not going to drive 2 hrs to spend $75 and go thru the paperwork.

And I doubt the 1911 commanders are any more snappy than other subcompact .45's.
 
Haha, I'm going to be 180° from most of these comments and say, "Cool, I didn't know RIA revived the P10/Warthog!"

One of my exes had a P10 back in the late 90s, when they came out. It was super sensitive to limpwristing, which made it difficult for her to shoot reliably but I never had a single malfunction with it. She traded it for a G30, which was much better for her.

It was a cool little gun, and I've wanted one ever since but it was low on the list. If RIA is putting these out, I'm going to pick one up at some point.
 
Buy it and try it? You'd think after 100+ years of history that someone could figure out a subcompact 45. If it ends up to be a POS you can always sell it.
 
puška m70 said:
Cool idea to have 10rd of .45 on tap in a small package, but I dunno how great that'd be to shoot and reliability-wise. Subcompact 380s are already less than enjoyable to shoot...

A lot of guys coming from the full size/compact polymer 9mm world like myself found a full size 1911 fine, but a commander is pretty snappy from what I'm used to, especially in a lightweight frame.

If you've never owned a 1911 (never shot one?) I'd go to a rental range and compare a full size 1911, a LW commander and your normal striker fired 9mm. See how it feels and try and imagine the commander but 4x more snappy, with a shorter sight radius and borderline unusable grip. Is that something you'd be comfortable putting several shots on target with, quickly and under
duress?

Not trying to crap on your ideas but there's kind of a reason the DS subcompact 1911 market isn't really a thing.
Tried it once(local gun range had it with Lasermax( LaserMax one of those rods like Glock I think). It's very snappy.
Click to expand...
Problem is finding range that rents one, Commander is not really the most popular in my experience.
 
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