Ultimate SHTF rifle???

[SHOCKNAWE]

Seconded.

Viva America/Go USA and all that, but domestic manufacturers for some reason just can't seem to make a top-tier AK (or even a mid-tier AK, for that matter). It's always wise to stick with Kalashnikovs made by commies.

Do you remember the DDI AK line?.

Out of the box it was a great AK, I sold it years ago to a buddy and to this day it's still running strong after thousands of rounds, it's too bad that company folded, I can't remember why but AK files were crucifying the owner.

I've heard really good things about PSA AK's as well but if I had to chose only 1 AK I'd go with the basic bitch WASR, bang for the buck it's probably the best AK out there.

 

[Picton]

...if I had to chose only 1 AK I'd go with the basic bitch WASR, bang for the buck it's probably the best AK out there.

It is. Especially when you can find it for only $350, like I did.

 

[ddskehan]

I hear you guys talk about emps. In a normal safe it’s unlikely that the weapon sight will fail. Your safe is by itself a faraday cage. If you’re really worried by a steel garbage barrel and line it with cardboard and plastic. Close the lid and bang, you’re safe. That’s what I did. Store your batteries in it also. But remember that emus aren’t just nukes and tactical weapons anymore. The us military has directional energy weapons (emp) that are on the front of tomahawks now, and can single out a single building in a city

 

[ddskehan]

Good luck finding a wasr 10 for that money nowadays.

 

[ddskehan]

I have several beryls, they go for 4K on gunbroker. I’m fondling one right now

 

[Mountain]

My understanding of how .308 destroys stuff is pit shooting where we pound concrete, steel, and such. It's just much more damaging much more quickly, though it extends to your shoulder as well.

Found the video w/ a link to 7.62 followed by 5.56. Personally I'd prefer 308/7.62 for mid to long distances, but a SHTF rifle is more likely to be needed for CQB than sniping. Also carrying a lot of ammo favors the 5.56 by a wide margin.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Anything Vintage or Modern Military or from a COD game. It’s known to run and be reliable and true, check, it’s good enough for our men and women in uniform, check, its GTG.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

It is. Especially when you can find it for only $350, like I did.

And there are bunch of guys laughing at you for paying that much when they got theirs for a $100 lol

 

[Picton]

And there are bunch of guys laughing at you for paying that much when they got theirs for a $100 lol

Yes, but they didn't get theirs in Massachusetts in 2023. I did.

Lucky deal of an NES lifetime, lol. My first WASR was one of the $650 ones, when they'd just started creeping up. That one was always GTG, too. LOTS of bang for the buck on the ol' WASR10. I'll always advocate for people buying one and keeping it on hand, even after they pick up higher-quality Kalashnikovs. The WASR is everything the AK is meant to be.

 

[Dench]

Good luck finding a wasr 10 for that money nowadays.

AK's are starting to fall out of fashion. The entire point of the Mosin/AK/SKS was they are dirt cheap rifles with dirt cheap ammo. Neither are true anymore.

7.62x54mmR is $.6+ a shot.
7.62x39mm is $.4+ a shot.
5.45x39mm is $.52+ a shot.

Hopefully other former Soviet countries pick up manufacturing on these rounds to lower the cost.

 

[DarthRevan]

It's not a whole lot different in terms of performance at 16 inches. Though personally I stay away from really light barrels if there's going to be 20+ round mags involved, too much heat too quickly.

As full rifles I have 2x 16s, an 18, a 20, and a 22 inch. The 20 and 22 are with bipods and big scopes. The 16s have 2.5x optics. And the 18 a carry handle.

Interestingly, you cannot usually find real AR10 carry handles & I'd love one. Using an AR15/M4 version, works fine, but isn't quite perfect. The AR10 versions are a touch longer.

My ambition at some point, a light 1-6ish sorta optics for one of the carbines. Better suited for all around use than a static 2.5x.

Barrel wise in a 16 inch, given you are talking about an upper, I suggest something advertised as match grade that's also chrome lined. I believe the one I'm running on my favorite carbine is a criterion. I'd worn out the previous BA/Aero barrel without some insane round count, which first reared it's head as over gassing then I noted later accuracy had also taken a dump.

It's debatable, but a good adjustable gas block is nice on AR10s. A good spring should be a must. They can be extremely reliable across lots of a wide range of ammo, but details do matter a lot more to get to one that you truly can trust.

While I’m not thrilled with the turrets, a creedo 1-8x FFP might fit the bill of what you want.

 

[G4Y4HK]

If your SHTF scenario includes an EMP there is a good chance that all your red dots, Eotechs and NV/thermal are going to be rendered useless.

I use etched reticles on my optics, so the EMP fantasy box is checked.

What do you do for night vision then? I assume all those newer fancy LED lights are fried too in that case. Got a stack of 6V Surefire P60 xenon reflector assemblies?

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Yes, but they didn't get theirs in Massachusetts in 2023. I did.

Lucky deal of an NES lifetime, lol. My first WASR was one of the $650 ones, when they'd just started creeping up. That one was always GTG, too. LOTS of bang for the buck on the ol' WASR10. I'll always advocate for people buying one and keeping it on hand, even after they pick up higher-quality Kalashnikovs. The WASR is everything the AK is meant to be.

That is awesome, I'm going to be a topper here though.

Around 2015, I was bored and looked on the "The deli ticket emporium" ( @drgrant ) and saw a Norinco type 56 under folder that recently got added for $900, I immediately called and they agreed to hold it for me, I went down there and the bolt and receiver numbers matched and it was in used but great condition so I snagged it for $900 and change, took it home and cleaned the shit out of it. I was surprised that it was listed for that number, they told me they just got it in the day before.

At that time I was transitioning from the AK to the AR's and knew I wasn't going to shoot it so I listed it on the AK files and within the hour had it sold for $1600. In hindsight I probably could have doubled that after Maura Healy and her gay bullshit but still made a good profit on it.

But to your story the WASR is a beast of a rifle. Wish I bought a crate of them back in the early 90's

 

[Picton]

What do you do for night vision then? I assume all those newer fancy LED lights are fried too in that case. Got a stack of 6V Surefire P60 xenon reflector assemblies?

What do you do for night vision in an environment where an EMP has occurred powerful enough to fry everyone's shit?

That situation is going to be so dire that the function of your NVD is going to be the least of your concerns. At that point, you're posting lookouts so you can sleep, relying on your knife, and trying to find water that won't kill you.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

What do you do for night vision then? I assume all those newer fancy LED lights are fried too in that case. Got a stack of 6V Surefire P60 xenon reflector assemblies?

I'm too cheap to get into that, if the SHTF I'm not leaving my house and will probably get ripped apart in the first action by some idiot with a gangsta Glock anyways lol

 

[paul73]

Yes, but they didn't get theirs in Massachusetts in 2023. I did.

Lucky deal of an NES lifetime, lol. My first WASR was one of the $650 ones, when they'd just started creeping up. That one was always GTG, too. LOTS of bang for the buck on the ol' WASR10. I'll always advocate for people buying one and keeping it on hand, even after they pick up higher-quality Kalashnikovs. The WASR is everything the AK is meant to be.

WASR is an ok gun. i just do not follow at all who and why would shoot this ammo now, at 40cpr min. with majority of offers around 46cpr.

 

[G4Y4HK]

I'm too cheap to get into that, if the SHTF I'm not leaving my house and will probably get ripped apart in the first action by some idiot with a gangsta Glock anyways lol

My gateway drug into flashlight collecting was an old Surefire 6P with the old P60 bulbs that heated up a good 80 lumens lol. Better than nothing after an EMP I suppose.

 

[teamRR]

Found the video w/ a link to 7.62 followed by 5.56. Personally I'd prefer 308/7.62 for mid to long distances, but a SHTF rifle is more likely to be needed for CQB than sniping. Also carrying a lot of ammo favors the 5.56 by a wide margin.

That worked quite a bit different than I thought, but what was eye opening to me for instance was others dumping mags into a 2x2 ft patch of concrete we had setup w/ 7.62 Russian & 5.56, and then about 5 shots into a mag of 7.62 nato it came down like a sheet of tempered glass.

The heavier round does a much better job at destroying materials, stuff like a vehicle, a wall fence someone is using as cover, etc. I look at those carbine AR10s, although sure you can carry power further, as a +power sorta carbine for CQB too. Gives you an ability beyond the smaller stuff, at a cost for sure in weight/capacity.

 

[Knob Creek]

M1a and AR15 and PCC in 9mm. That should cover it.

 

[Dench]

M1a

wtf

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Since we are doing gun porn, it's 100% one of my DD builds

 

[Picton]

WASR is an ok gun. i just do not follow at all who and why would shoot this ammo now, at 40cpr min. with majority of offers around 46cpr.

Maybe because you bought at 15 cpr and stockpiled several thousand rounds?

That might be a good reason.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Maybe because you bought at 15 cpr and stockpiled several thousand rounds?

That might be a good reason.

How much does a sealed 700 round Tula BRICK spam can go for these days? Will it just appreciate over time as an investment?

 

[DarkJoker33]

I keep thinking of doing another AR-10 upper instead of my unwieldy 20" barrel setup.

When I was researching mine, I settled on a 18.
Iirc, a 20 inch wasn't that much better in terms of energy delivery.

 

[fencer]

I'd take one of my. 308/7.62 nato AR10 carbines. Probably something you don't hear usually.

Heavy, ammo is too, but not insanely so. Good for hunting whatever at whatever distance. And .308/7.62 nato, without being one bit wierd, is a whole lot more intimidating when it comes to defeating common structures someone may use as a barricade compared to 5.56 or 7.62 Russian. Body armor included.

Back in the day, in the sand box, they were investigating Marine's for executing Hadji's due to all of the head shots. Turns out it was just jar heads with 308's returning fire when Jaffar stuck his head up on the roof of his mud hut with his AK.
There is no doubt 7.62 increases your effective range and shows up on target with more whoop ass than 5.56.
I think Ayoob wrote that your " battle rifle" should be an AR-10 because if shit goes sideways, you are likely to be dealing with an opponent in a vehicle. Not sure I agree with that, as any vehicle that will stop 5.56 will probably stop 7.62x51, but I suppose it should be more lethal after barrier penetration.

 

[drgrant]

What do you do for night vision in an environment where an EMP has occurred powerful enough to fry everyone's shit?

That situation is going to be so dire that the function of your NVD is going to be the least of your concerns. At that point, you're posting lookouts so you can sleep, relying on your knife, and trying to find water that won't kill you.

And in all probability you will be dead from the bombs that are coming following the one that hit your electronics.

In my opinion the only EMP scenario that is plausible to even care about is if that you honestly believe that the United States would use a large EMP weapon against its own population. That's literally the only time that you're not going to get a retaliatory strike that's going to basically erase the Earth. Otherwise the entire idea is it just a bunch of tin foil fagottry. People think that somebody like China is going to be able to pop a multi-megaton nuclear device over america without WW3 starting.... and that's pretty hilarious.

 

[PappyM3]

What do you do for night vision then? I assume all those newer fancy LED lights are fried too in that case. Got a stack of 6V Surefire P60 xenon reflector assemblies?

You don’t have a spare set of dual tube’s in a sealed metal drum?

My gateway drug into flashlight collecting was an old Surefire 6P with the old P60 bulbs that heated up a good 80 lumens lol. Better than nothing after an EMP I suppose.

Those are worth some money now to cloners.

 

[teamRR]

Back in the day, in the sand box, they were investigating Marine's for executing Hadji's due to all of the head shots. Turns out it was just jar heads with 308's returning fire when Jaffar stuck his head up on the roof of his mud hut with his AK.
There is no doubt 7.62 increases your effective range and shows up on target with more whoop ass than 5.56.
I think Ayoob wrote that your " battle rifle" should be an AR-10 because if shit goes sideways, you are likely to be dealing with an opponent in a vehicle. Not sure I agree with that, as any vehicle that will stop 5.56 will probably stop 7.62x51, but I suppose it should be more lethal after barrier penetration.

Things hit with .308 are more likely to become dead & stay that way I guess, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Broc Tuah]

Seconded.

Viva America/Go USA and all that, but domestic manufacturers for some reason just can't seem to make a top-tier AK (or even a mid-tier AK, for that matter). It's always wise to stick with Kalashnikovs made by commies.

Because Americans can't make a good battle rifle.

The proof is right there in your post. We are still trying to compete against an 77 year old design that wins revolutions.

Let me be a little clearer for all those that will get sand in the vag when reading this - yes, Americans can build a very nice rifle, that needs to be treated very nice to work.

 

[fencer]

Things hit with .308 are more likely to become dead & stay that way I guess, regardless of the circumstances.

Agreed. 5.56 is plenty lethal and wicked easy to shoot, but targets hit with 308 tend to become shitified.

If I really need to put it down, I have a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag that body slams targets.
I guess the real lesson of this thread is that there really isn't a perfect shtf rifle. Different platforms deliver different advantages and disadvantages depending on the target.
If I had to pick just one, I am sticking with an AR with m855 green tips. Just because if necessary I can get a whole bunch of rounds on target quickly and accurately. And I can hump a shit ton of ammo.
But like I said, a 30-30 lever gun has a long history of making large mammals dinner. I swear those flat nose projectiles hit above their weight class, even though most 30cal rounds are moving a lot faster.