chris_1001
NES Member
The mini 14 was “OK”. Not stellar and not a target rifle at all.
If you had good mags, it worked. If not, good luck.
But it was light, shot 556 and WAS cheap.
Now it’s not cheap.
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Ultimate SHTF rifle???
- Thread starter LordOfGont
- Start date
If you had good mags, it worked. If not, good luck.
But it was light, shot 556 and WAS cheap.
Now it’s not cheap.
ARs are more capable, configurable, and cheaper now with greater magazine availability.
Older Mini-14s have better sights, but the over-gassed actions and pencil barrels meant barrel whip and stringing is a significant problem.
Newer Mini-14 have better barrels, but are still over-gassed and the iron sights are meh.
Optics mounting on Minis is less than ideal.
ThePreBanMan
NES Member
That's an awful lot of electronics in the optics when SHTF and you can't get batteries.
I think this guy is trying to build the ultimate SHTF gun
www.northeastshooters.com
random thought about mounting a stock to the front rail of a pistol
Would a butt stock set-up on a pistol that mounted to the front rail work? I know it would look.... more than a little ridiculous, but having the mounting point near the end of the barrel would have some huge muzzle flip reduction gains, no? Rail and frame would probably have to be redesigned to...
www.northeastshooters.com
I think this guy is trying to build the ultimate SHTF gun
random thought about mounting a stock to the front rail of a pistol
Would a butt stock set-up on a pistol that mounted to the front rail work? I know it would look.... more than a little ridiculous, but having the mounting point near the end of the barrel would have some huge muzzle flip reduction gains, no? Rail and frame would probably have to be redesigned to...
No joke: there was a guy on Gunboards a few years ago who was forever trying to spread the Gospel Of The Stocked Pistol, claiming it was the ideal SHTF firearm for all situations. He claimed to have built up a large collection of stocked (meaning old and expensive) C96s and BHPs, all in 9mm, which he'd stockpiled like 5k rounds of.
So every thread over there that speculated on any kind of SHTF eventually featured this poster, coming by and claiming that no AR or AK could possibly outshoot a stocked 9mm.
Made sense before SMGs in WW1 and machine pistols make sense for certain mission specialties where being able to have one hand armed with the other manipulates things is critical. But other than that, they are so ridiculous that anyone placing emphasis on them as KING OF THE HILL survival weapon has to be huffing glue.
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I have some X95s that are smaller than an 11.5 AR with 16-18 inch barrels . Figured I had enough really compact rifles and didn’t need another one , maybe someday down the road I will sbr who knowsNo offense but not a fan.why a 16" when shtf? 11 to 12.5" all the way. If you don't care for NFA stuff, even a 14.5 is more nimble. That muzzle brake....if you care about the MA AWB something like a Rainier XTC 1.0 or similar is a much better compromise. No WML? Thermal is great for distance and searching but what about close intermediate work inside your home or even your property where you are going kinetic?
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The real question is why are you using an 11.5 inch AR and sacrificing much needed velocity for maneuverability , when you could have a shorter package and the best of both worlds with an X95 ?No offense but not a fan.
I have a bunch of WMLs and pressure switches just didn’t have it attached at the time of pic
Still think a Sub2000 gen2 would work the best. A "semi-automatic assault weapon" that can be deployed as a sheepDAWG weapon and then converted to hidey mode for storage when you wanna blend in as SHEEPLE, just toss it in a Fjallraven or Patagonia backpack. Midwest flip optic mount you get yourself a red dot and a quick detach lug suppressor mount with ninja deadly and stealth silencers on it in seconds.
View: https://youtu.be/J_aCdGOXVeY?t=652
View: https://youtu.be/J_aCdGOXVeY?t=652
I shoot lefty and don't enjoy eating brass if I got my hands on the wrong handed rifle. Would love to get my hands on a left bolt eject X95 though. Seem like unicorns.The real question is why are you using an 11.5 inch AR and sacrificing much needed velocity for maneuverability , when you could have a shorter package and the best of both worlds with an X95 ?
I have a bunch of WMLs and pressure switches just didn’t have it attached at the time of pic
Mtn_Guy
NES Member
Shameless plug…
www.northeastshooters.com
WTS - 14” Shockwave (MA) eFA10 Available
14” Mossberg Shockwave in MA available for personal transfer, located in Worcester Co. $1,000. Includes all of the accessories you would want to add to make this the perfect home defense/ SHTF/WROL “other firearm” Included Accessories: (valued at $450+) - Streamlight TL-Racker Forend Light...
www.northeastshooters.com
Bullpups definitely have benefits. But there are reasons why countries using bullpups as standard issue rifles have SOF who choose to use the M4 instead.The real question is why are you using an 11.5 inch AR and sacrificing much needed velocity for maneuverability , when you could have a shorter package and the best of both worlds with an X95 ?
I have a bunch of WMLs and pressure switches just didn’t have it attached at the time of pic
16” does give you more velocity of course, but it’s not an extreme difference in range for the expansion/fragmentation of the bullets. 11.5” still gives you effective terminal ballistics at distances that cover 95%+ of gunfight ranges. Okay, I made up that percentage, but it might be higher.
| 11.5” | 16” | |
| 55gr M193 | 100 yards | 150 yards |
| 62/70gr TSX | 250 yards | 300 yards |
| 77gr TMK | 275 yards | 350 yards |
Don’t use mid-century FMJ and you’ll have great effective range even out of an 11.5”. Even with M193, an 11.5” will still get you reliable fragmentation past any reasonable defensive situation.
And past that, the bullet doesn’t suddenly drop from the sky. Poke a hole in the vitals or CNS somewhere and the guy is done, 11.5” or 16”. Poke a hole elsewhere and he likely won’t continue to close that 100+ yard gap to get you.
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Tartakovsky
NES Member
Attachments
This is why I chose 12.5" for my "SHTF" rifle. Useful range (IIRC fragments to 150 or 200 yards) with a pretty handy length. With a full-size rifle can it's still about as long as a 16" rifle with a muzzle device, maybe a tad more, but if you're in a vehicle or something it's a brake mount can so it can be quickly removed. Woah nelly it's loud with just the brake though.
From my velocity data and DoD M193 testing, a 12.5” should get you about 75 yards with 75% chance of good fragmentation, and 125 yards with 50% chance of good fragmentation. M193 is just not good overall and doesn’t get much better with longer barrels.
But I do believe that a 12.5” is the first barrel length that gets you near 100% consistent fragmentation at normal domestic room clearing distances.
TG Pioneer
NES Member
There is a lot to be said for one of those Ishapore arsenal 7.62 Enfield rifles. Discussing this with I special forces friend many years ago, he made the observation that in a grid down situation, you don’t have access to resupply the way regular soldiers have. They can afford to waste all kinds of ammunition with Modern assault rifle, but we can’t. Also, you know that weapons like that are absolutely indestructible.
Still not trading my AR, or any of my AK’s for one of them though.
Still not trading my AR, or any of my AK’s for one of them though.
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fencer
NES Member
The best SHTF rifle is the one you have ammo for.
The key to life is wondrous variety. Damn near any ammo I come across, I have a rifle that will shoot it.
My preferred rifle would be in 7.62x51, but if I find 30-30, 30-06, 22lr, 5.56 etc etc. I have a firearm that will eat it, if for some reason I have exhausted my supply.
Sure, 30-30 is not something I want to take to battle, but it is a very effective round.
The key to life is wondrous variety. Damn near any ammo I come across, I have a rifle that will shoot it.
My preferred rifle would be in 7.62x51, but if I find 30-30, 30-06, 22lr, 5.56 etc etc. I have a firearm that will eat it, if for some reason I have exhausted my supply.
Sure, 30-30 is not something I want to take to battle, but it is a very effective round.
Easily reloadable ammunition or calibers which are in common use such they could be scavenged various places seems logical.
I'm wondering in an end of the world as we know it scenario if shotguns would be the best bet. Simple, low pressure, could make shells out of cardboard/milk bottle plastic and home made black powder if need be.
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Let your mind wander not for this is the truth
They 'don't'. But the washout in daytime is pretty extreme. This from using some pretty high end .gov stuff.
I think at least a 12 gauge and some know-how in this area is a good idea. I also want to get a powerful air rifle, like at least 22lr power level. Get some spare o-rings and a pellet mold (assuming they make these) and you are in business forever basically.
