What’s wrong with DA/SA handguns?

[Point&Shoot]

Shopping for optics but walked out of the lgs with a P229 Legion. (The most I’ve ever paid for a handgun but they give you a magical coin, range bag AND official inclusion into the Legion. What are some of the reasons DA/SA are sort of disrespected. I’ve always shot my best with 1911 style handguns and it’s always felt like the bullet was downrange before I felt the recoil. Anybody take a shot?

 

[Ultrarunner]

EDC a P226. Tens of thousands of rounds of reliability and I can ring an 8inch plate at 50 yards consistently. What else would I need...

 

[nstassel]

Nothing is wrong with them. The two trigger actions takes a bit more learning to shoot well. I prefer the longer DA in a carry gun.

 

[Golddiggie]

IMO/IME, the DA/SA (or SAO) gets most of it's disrespect from die hard grock fanbois. Or those that DAO is the ONLY valid action type. Personally, I hate DAO pistols with a passion. Almost all of my handguns are SAO, with only my revolver being DA/SA. Most of the time, I use the revolver in SA mode. Mostly because the trigger is sweet that way. Even DA, the trigger (revolver) is good.

I've carried a 1911 before, without any issue or concern (condition 1 or cocked and locked). I've shot competitions with it as well with solid results. Sure, people do that with DAO guns too, these days at least. Back when I was into competition shotting, I don't recall seeing any DAO, or striker fired, pistols. Granted that was about thirty years back now.

I grew up shooting a 1911, so working a thumb safety is muscle memory or not any issue at all. IMO, only very new shooters, or people who've only shot DAO pistols before have any real issue with thumb safeties.

 

[Happy feet]

Some people disrespect Da/Sa because it requires practice to be good at the transition from Da to Sa, also the double action first shot takes a little work to be good at it (or spring tweaks ) they also can be a little more complicated to work on vs striker fired. There are some pluses to carrying a Da/Sa

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Best trigger is a single action 1911,.. that's all there is to say.

 

[MickeyD’s]

Because people are lazy

I went from a polymer striker only guy to now a DA/SA guy. All it took was the CZ SP01T with 10$ of springs. Now I have a P01 and the Tac.

I started out on SW third gen’s but the slide safety and horrendous triggers/mag disconnect made me go Glock/MP for years.

 

[whatluck]

I EDC a 2022 or 226. Both are tack drivers, pretty much as good as an AR15 in my hands out to 25 yards. Triggers are as good as anything short of a tuned 1911. That first DA shot is slower and more deliberate, but IMO it's ok to take that extra half a beat to concentrate through a long da pull.

Sig 2022, 5 rounds of federal syntech 147gr at 25 yards, very slow fire, first shot was DA, and yes, that first shot was the low and left one.



I tend to shoot these guns just a tad low for some reason.

 

[whatluck]

I also love putting my thumb on the hammer while reholstering. One thing I always hated about striker guns is reholstering.

 

[M1911]

I also love putting my thumb on the hammer while reholstering. One thing I always hated about striker guns is reholstering.

I know this will trigger people (pun intended) but you can get a striker control device for Glocks, which gives you a similar tactile warning of something blocking the trigger.

 

[whatluck]

I know this will trigger people (pun intended) but you can get a striker control device for Glocks, which gives you a similar tactile warning of something blocking the trigger.

Too bad they don't make a similar device for the P320 that warns you when it's about to explode.

 

[Masswhole]

Too bad they don't make a similar device for the P320 that warns you when it's about to explode.

That’s what the loaded chamber indicator is for.

 

[knoxy]

There's nothing wrong with da/sa, at all. If all you've ever shot is striker fired it might take a couple of mags to get used to.

 

[whatluck]

That’s what the loaded chamber indicator is for.

Yeah, that's where the ring goes. You pull the ring out, count to 3, throw, and cover.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yeah, that's where the ring goes. You pull the ring out, count to 3, throw, and cover.

I thought that's where you did the old 'pin and weld' treatment to the thing...

 

[Golddiggie]

That’s what the loaded chamber indicator is for.

I've never really seen any good reason for the "loaded chamber indictor" that seems to be applied to more and more pistols as the years move on. Having it at the top of the barrel (relative to the slide) means that gas gets ejected onto your dot with every shot. At the very least it's annoying. At the worst, it clouds up your dot making things worse. Maybe if more people would either press check their pistols to see if it's loaded (BTW, you should KNOW if it's loaded), or just take steps to either load it, or unload it depending on what you're doing. Then again, that requires people to THINK which is the first point of failure.

 

[Dennis in MA]

with only my revolver being DA/SA

Autococker??? LOL.

I'll pass on DA/SA pistols. I've owned several. Never liked them. They are the 40S&W of the pistol trigger world. (giggle - now I got some BP's up all over NES.)

Strange - I still own some 40's. But no DA/SA. ROFL!!!!

 

[M1911]

Autococker??? LOL.

I'll pass on DA/SA pistols. I've owned several. Never liked them. They are the 40S&W of the pistol trigger world. (giggle - now I got some BP's up all over NES.)

Try a Shadow 2 with a Cajun spring kit installed.

 

[Golddiggie]

Try a Shadow 2 with a Cajun spring kit installed.

I would consider a Shadow 2 since it's easy to put into SA mode if you want. I'd look at any of the CZ pistols that are either SAO or SA/DA where you could carry in SA (locked and cocked) so there's no long DA first trigger pull.. Pretty sure you can convert the DA/SA Shadow 2 pistols into SAO.

@Dennis in MA I thought you were straight dude. What's with the fotay's??

I don't recall if the HK 45C I owned, briefly, was DA/SA, but I was able to run it as a SA pistol without issue. Just ended up not really liking the thing, so it found a new home.

 

[M1911]

I would consider a Shadow 2 since it's easy to put into SA mode if you want. I'd look at any of the CZ pistols that are either SAO or SA/DA where you could carry in SA (locked and cocked) so there's no long DA first trigger pull.. Pretty sure you can convert the DA/SA Shadow 2 pistols into SAO.

@Dennis in MA I thought you were straight dude. What's with the fotay's??

I don't recall if the HK 45C I owned, briefly, was DA/SA, but I was able to run it as a SA pistol without issue. Just ended up not really liking the thing, so it found a new home.

The DA on the Shadow 2 is actually pretty awesome (about 6 lbs on mine with little stacking and butter smooth) and the safety levers aren’t 1911 quality. So I would not convert to SA only.

I had a couple HK USPc that I sold. The DA on those was so completely awful in comparison to the Shadow 2. The HK DA was well over 10 lbs and it stacked horribly — it was basically unusable.

 

[Rocky Mosasaurus]

Once you shoot the P226 Legion you won’t be able to think about any other pistol. It’s simply THAT good.

 

[CrackPot]

My first choice will always be a single action carried condition one. (1911/2011, certain other guns SAO)
My second choice is a DA/SA, decocker, carried hammer down so first pull double action.
My third choice is a DAO revolver, airlight, 5 shot as the situation warrants for pocket carry or backup. But this is rare.

There is no choice that covers any non-revolver DAO or any striker fired guns. You can keep these as I don't want them.

 

[Golddiggie]

The DA on the Shadow 2 is actually pretty awesome (about 6 lbs on mine with little stacking and butter smooth) and the safety levers aren’t 1911 quality. So I would not convert to SA only.

I had a couple HK USPc that I sold. The DA on those was so completely awful in comparison to the Shadow 2. The HK DA was well over 10 lbs and it stacked horribly — it was basically unusable.

The safety on my TS2 is good... I've not compared it with the one on my DE1911c so not sure how it rates that way. Still, good enough for how I use it. I will say that the wrong hand side of the safety on the TS2 is pretty useless. Too shallow a level IMO.

I'll be looking to get either a Sig 226 or 229 for my next pistol. Just not sure when that is.

 

[MisterHappy]

You carry / shoot what you want, I'll do the same.

 

[DarkJoker33]

I've never really seen any good reason for the "loaded chamber indictor" that seems to be applied to more and more pistols as the years move on.

Stupid regulations and to feel at night when you can't see if it's loaded.

I had a couple HK USPc that I sold. The DA on those was so completely awful in comparison to the Shadow 2. The HK DA was well over 10 lbs and it stacked horribly — it was basically unusable.

Aftermarket parts clean it up nicely. It can still be better though in comparison to other pistols.
Then there's the LEM conversion that makes a hammer gun striker fire'ish.
I'm debating on doing it to one of my USP 's or just getting a P30L and doing it to that.

All but 3 of my pistols are hammer fired. There's maybe 2 more I want for aesthetic reasons that are striker fired.
DA/SA all the way.
I did just convert one of my 92's to a SAO. But haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

The hate is the same hate there was for polymer guns when they came out against steel/aluminum frame guns. And irons vs red dots.
Personal opinions and stupidity.

I put in a apex trigger & springs in one of their M&P's as well and noticed a massive improvement.

I converted someone from striker to hammer fired and they haven't looked back since.

 

[M1911]

Aftermarket parts clean it up nicely. It can still be better though in comparison to other pistols.
Then there's the LEM conversion that makes a hammer gun striker fire'ish.
I'm debating on doing it to one of my USP 's or just getting a P30L and doing it to that.

Back when I had the USPc, a fellow I knew was an ICE agent who was issued a USPc .40 LEM. So we met at the club and fired his LEM and my V1 USPc .40s back to back. My reaction to the LEM trigger was a firm meh. It really isn't anything special.

There were no aftermarket parts available to improve the USPc trigger at the time. The DA trigger was beyond horrible. The SA trigger was OK. Given a choice between carrying it hammer down, cocked and locked, or installing the LEM, my choices would have been cocked and locked first, LEM second, and hammer down never.

The stupid paddle magazine release is a rant for a different thread...

 

[CMEBoston]

I dunno what’s wrong with em?

 

[DarkJoker33]

Back when I had the USPc, a fellow I knew was an ICE agent who was issued a USPc .40 LEM. So we met at the club and fired his LEM and my V1 USPc .40s back to back. My reaction to the LEM trigger was a firm meh. It really isn't anything special.

There were no aftermarket parts available to improve the USPc trigger at the time. The DA trigger was beyond horrible. The SA trigger was OK. Given a choice between carrying it hammer down, cocked and locked, or installing the LEM, my choices would have been cocked and locked first, LEM second, and hammer down never.

The stupid paddle magazine release is a rant for a different thread...

Gray guns makes a short reset kit for a while. Now that have a flat face trigger. I want to get it, but like every other DA/SA flat trigger, I wish the DA part was a little further back/ trigger shoe was straighter similar to Sig's striker fired ones.
I understand mechanically it can't be way back, but it seems almost pointless.

Then you can get the match trigger kit straight from HK that was in the elites I believe.
I did it to my USP 9 and it cleaned up nicely. Minus the flat trigger.
Plan to do the same to my USP 40.

Supposedly, and I havent deep dived into it. There is a light and heavy LEM kit now. I saw something about it in HK Reddit.

Honestly, if I could paddle convert all my push buttons to paddle, I would in a heartbeat.

 

[M1911]

Gray guns makes a short reset kit for a while. Now that have a flat face trigger. I want to get it, but like every other DA/SA flat trigger, I wish the DA part was a little further back/ trigger shoe was straighter similar to Sig's striker fired ones.
I understand mechanically it can't be way back, but it seems almost pointless.

Then you can get the match trigger kit straight from HK that was in the elites I believe.
I did it to my USP 9 and it cleaned up nicely. Minus the flat trigger.
Plan to do the same to my USP 40.

Supposedly, and I havent deep dived into it. There is a light and heavy LEM kit now. I saw something about it in HK Reddit.

It doesn't matter to me -- I sold them long ago. Even if I the trigger had been fixed, there was everything else I hated about the gun (the slide large enough for a .50AE Desert Eagle, the paddle release, the magazines made out of $$$$, the fact that it took me three phone calls and months to buy a spring from HK, etc.).

 

[jkelly1229]

EDC a P226. Tens of thousands of rounds of reliability and I can ring an 8inch plate at 50 yards consistently. What else would I need...

Something that isnt the size of a bag phone on your hip with 15 rounds?

I like 226s but edc'ing one seems a little rough