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What am I missing?

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Yes, I am sure I will catch cr@p, but it's late, I'm tired, finishing a 60 hour week, just started a new gig workung overnights and not used to the schedule yet...

Anyway...
And...

Equal $350 AR?
 
Yep. And PSA is a decent AR. Prices are dropping like rocks. Rocks, I tell'ya.

Back when I got my first AR. . . . . . . . 20 or so years ago, I had a free float tube put on. Back then it seemed like a big deal. The guy who did it for me said, "You know you could get one lower and a whole bunch of different uppers for various things." I thought he was a loon back then. Now I've got an AR with 3 uppers to it. LOL.

Back then, it was hard to buy an upper. And they cost as much as a full gun. Today, an upper is $200-300 in most cases. And lowers aren't all that and a bag of potato-chips. So the ask of $750 for an entry AR and $1,100 for a "good" gun is asking a bit much. Especially for most shooters that'll never wring out those guns in terms of accuracy or endurance.


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Heck, places like PSA are making it hard to build your own AR lower. Even with an average parts kit, you'd be hard pressed to beat that price in parts. $50 for the lower, 50 for the LPK, 25 or so for the stock. $4 to assemble??? OK!
 
So, why can’t I find cheap A1 uppers?

Not an AR fan, but if I was I’d like something that was close to the old triangle hand guard, carry handle and sights needing a firing pin to adjust. Hate the round forend and flat top.

Old stuff is cool again. The legit surplus kits command a premium and there's not that many places putting out really good, authentic looking repros, so your best option is to get one of the old Colt A1 parts kits. I'd like one also, but want it to look as original as possible, and to do that, I'm gonna pay for it.
 
Old stuff is cool again. The legit surplus kits command a premium and there's not that many places putting out really good, authentic looking repros, so your best option is to get one of the old Colt A1 parts kits. I'd like one also, but want it to look as original as possible, and to do that, I'm gonna pay for it.

Think I paid like 600 for my Vietnam Era kit and it was really difficult to find. Brownells has a special retro rifle section now, I've heard great things, not sure how many others offer similar.
 
I already have a "good" AR, or at least a decent one. Windham with a trigger, bipod, good glass... This would be another (maybe 2) SHTF guns. Neighbor, backup to the backup, spare parts victim, whatever. Kinda like "2 is 1,1 is none" where the numbers are a little higher.

And hell, we all know that when a "bitter clinger" buys a EBR a liberal cries... "
 
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PSA is good for a range toy, as long as you dont intend to bet your life on it.

If your betting your life on it, I would go with a company that makes mil-spec stuff.
 
The specs are good. Anyone actually have personal experience of one failing in any way?

Barrel: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium steel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine length gas system. This M4 profile barrel is finished off with a standard handguard in Olive Drab Green, F-Marked gas sight base, and an A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is machined to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer.

Bolt: Full-auto profile bolt carrier group. Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt, shot peened, high pressure tested, mag particle inspected, gas key hardened to USGI specifications, fastened with grade 8 screws, and staked per Mil-Spec. 8620 steel M-16 profile carrier is chrome lined and phosphate coated.
 
Wasnt there a thread back a while ago where someone linked a thread where the owner of battlefield Vegas had said that his PSA uppers had lasted the longest and performed better than his other gear? That guy would know, can't imagine the amount of rounds those rifles see.

Id like to see a comprehensive list of whats good, whats not, and whats important. I'm sure this has been beaten to death over and over, but it seems like if you just throw money at it, it just HAS to be better.

I don't own any PSA stuff, but keep an eye on them and read reviews when I come across them.
 
Think I paid like 600 for my Vietnam Era kit and it was really difficult to find. Brownells has a special retro rifle section now, I've heard great things, not sure how many others offer similar.

A quick google reveals the usual guys selling kits. Seems to start around $400 and up to $600 for the exact same kit. One Company had them for $200 but it was just the upper receiver, handguards, FSB and LPK and muzzle device. The brownells rifles look OK, but to me anyway, they're just missing that little extra detail for authenticity.
 
PSA is good for a range toy, as long as you dont intend to bet your life on it.

If your betting your life on it, I would go with a company that makes mil-spec stuff.

Imagine the "piles of shit" guns that various resistance groups in different wars " bet their lives on" ?? :rolleyes: Imagine the look of disdain from some dirty, ragged assed freedom fighter whose been living in a hole in the ground for three years as someone handed him some funky STEN and ten mags both built in the basement of some bicycle shop for $2. Or the guy who found 25 two shot Liberator .45acp sheetmetal pistols that were dropped out of a plane in the dark the night before. I'll bet they complained every waking hour of the rest of their lives.[banghead]

That "bet your life on it" argument is nonsense. I'd bet my life on any gun I own, especially the AKs and ARs I've built.

Oh and 99.9999% of AR parts are mil spec.....its the standard, with many exceeding it on some things.
 
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Couldn't let it go, especially with free shipping. Getting the new year started off right, fulfilling my annual resolution to make liberals sad. So I one-upped myself and ordered one of these too...


Because F U MAURA.

I mean c'mon, why WOULDN'T I???
 
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I already have a "good" AR, or at least a decent one. Windham with a trigger, bipod, good glass... This would be another (maybe 2) SHTF guns. Neighbor, backup to the backup, spare parts victim, whatever. Kinda like "2 is 1,1 is none" where the numbers are a little higher.

And hell, we all know that when a "bitter clinger" buys a EBG a liberal cries... "

I'll bet you won't get anyone to stand down range as a bullet catcher with any AR.
 
Wasnt there a thread back a while ago where someone linked a thread where the owner of battlefield Vegas had said that his PSA uppers had lasted the longest and performed better than his other gear? That guy would know, can't imagine the amount of rounds those rifles see.

It is kinda curious though that "that guy" doesn't mention a lot of other vendor names, and it can't be out of concern of libel either, because if "something actually happened" it's not
libelous or defamatory.... also, that place makes so much cash that they could throw their uppers away once a month and still make money on those guns. The upper probably pays for itself in a half dozen rentals or so.

It's also worth mentioning that PSA sells several different grades of hardware, or at least they did last I looked.

-Mike
 
I'll bet you won't get anyone to stand down range as a bullet catcher with any AR.

Vague/Specious argument, I wouldn't want to stand downrange of some guy holding the AMT Back-Up .380 that I owned, despite the fact that it was the worst gun I've owned in my entire
life. "Because it was lethal" doesn't necessarily mean it was a good investment. Of course it's a GREAT investment if the choice is between that and not having a
gun.


-Mike
 
Who knows? The AR market is so saturated, and theres nothing exactly new about anything, I'd think 99.9% of the vendors out there still in business make a good product. I don't think anyone outside of those who make their living with a gun would ever know the difference. I mean, we all know we can get super cheap lesser quality barrels from a few vendors, but we know what we're getting, and most the people I see shooting, cant even use the accuracy THOSE barrels produce, let alone a quality match barrel.

Personally, the only areas I'll spend extra on are the BCG, LPK, and barrel, in that order.
 
Back when parts where hard to find, non existent, or FR priced, I bought a carbine buffer for a build. Took the rifle to the range and rifle started acting up within a few rounds. Long story short, it was some fake airsoft type buffer. Cant remember where I got it but it wasnt in a shoebox at a gun show. That was back when cheap parts were everywhere and it was a gamble not spending premium.
 
SHHHHH! you're going to anger all the poors/skinflints!!!! [rofl]

-Mike

You seem to have this unending thing about crticizing how much people pay for their guns.

I spent roughly $30,000 dollars on guns alone in the past year and a half and more than 1/2 that amount on ammunition.

I can sit and shoot beside guys with $2000 dollar ARs and hit the targets shot for shot just like them, the difference being I paid $350 for my gun and built five for every one they built.

Does that qualify me to the poor/skinflint level yet?

Get over it will ya? Most people buy what they can afford and often times shoot their less expensive guns more often than the multi thousand dollar safe queens that might see a firing line once or twice a year.
 
Who knows? The AR market is so saturated, and there's nothing exactly new about anything, I'd think 99.9% of the vendors out there still in business make a good product. I don't think anyone outside of those who make their living with a gun would ever know the difference. I mean, we all know we can get super cheap lesser quality barrels from a few vendors, but we know what we're getting, and most the people I see shooting, cant even use the accuracy THOSE barrels produce, let alone a quality match barrel.

Personally, the only areas I'll spend extra on are the BCG, LPK, and barrel, in that order.

Well, one of the huge problems that happened was Sandy Hook. So an easy 40-60% of the stuff being bought was bought by people who will rarely or ever shoot it, which allows the manufacturers to get away with a lot of sins. There are still ARs made by (whoever) littered in closets all over america that have never even been fired. [rofl] Many are decent quality
guns. A lot are probably junk, but it doesn't matter because they won't ever get fired, or not much, at least.

The other thing is peoples definition of a "good product" is going to vary widely. The good thing about the industry though is there's something for everyone. That's good for rights and the cause as a whole. Even if I would never buy the f***ing things, if a skinflint AR gets a guy or lady into rifle he otherwise wouldn't have, that's usually a net plus.

-Mike
 
You seem to have this unending thing about crticizing how much people pay for their guns.

I spent roughly $30,000 dollars on guns alone in the past year and a half and more than 1/2 that amount on ammunition.

I can sit and shoot beside guys with $2000 dollar ARs and hit the targets shot for shot just like them, the difference being I paid $350 for my gun and built five for every one they built.

Does that qualify me to the poor/skinflint level yet?

Get over it will ya? Most people buy what they can afford and often times shoot their less expensive guns more often than the multi thousand dollar safe queens that might see a firing line once or twice a year.

I'm glad your cheap stuff works great for you, but I'm not going to stop making fun of flinting, not now, not ever. Doesn't matter what it is, either. Whether it's a gun or a chinese spoon at
walmart. It may surprise you but some of my best friends are the biggest f***ing skinflints on the planet. The thing is though, most of the time when they flint, it's on something that
doesn't matter. Like when I go to HF and buy a battery charger, I'm under no illusion that it's "just as good" as a commercial grade unit, or that I somehow "beat the system" by paying
less. If you want to believe you can do that, then more power to you. It's your right to do so! Then again I also don't ascribe ego to guns or whatever, or stuff I own. Like I have an 800 dollar AR. I'm under no illusion that its anywhere near as good as the old Colt I had, or even the cheapest BCM you can buy today. It works perfectly well and I trust it enough to work if I
needed it to. However, you won't ever catch me calling it "really good" or "you should buy one of these" because I know better about what it actually is and it's place in the
hierarchy of ARs and various build features that are considered important by people who shoot Hajis in the face for a living, and the people who train them to do that. It's possible for me to
own a rifle that is adequate for my needs while still being considered marginal or "average" by anyone else that knows better. I won't lose sleep over it.

I am a bit biased because my entire career I've watched people kick their own ass by flinting on stuff. So the bias runs pretty strong here. It's unavoidable, when you see it validated over and over and over again. To summarize- no, it's not necessary to buy a Rolex if you need a new watch, but please, let's not try to blow smoke up people's asses by insisting that a BOLEX from the dude on the street in NYC is just as good.. [rofl] I mean PSA obviously isn't that bad, but the idea is the same. PSA might actually get to "Timex" level but not sure. Years ago a friend of mine on here and myself were going to destructively test one of their uppers but unfortunately he ended up selling the thing before we had a chance to do it. [rofl]

-Mike
 
The specs are good. Anyone actually have personal experience of one failing in any way?

Barrel: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium steel. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a carbine length gas system. This M4 profile barrel is finished off with a standard handguard in Olive Drab Green, F-Marked gas sight base, and an A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is machined to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer.

Bolt: Full-auto profile bolt carrier group. Milspec Carpenter No. 158® steel bolt, shot peened, high pressure tested, mag particle inspected, gas key hardened to USGI specifications, fastened with grade 8 screws, and staked per Mil-Spec. 8620 steel M-16 profile carrier is chrome lined and phosphate coated.

Yes. I have several PSAs and they are all relegated to toys only. Two of them come with BCGs out of spec in several areas. FTF very common.

If you want some toys, go ahead. If you don't own a nice rifle yet, save some money and buy something from Bravo Company.
 
You seem to have this unending thing about crticizing how much people pay for their guns.

I spent roughly $30,000 dollars on guns alone in the past year and a half and more than 1/2 that amount on ammunition.

I can sit and shoot beside guys with $2000 dollar ARs and hit the targets shot for shot just like them, the difference being I paid $350 for my gun and built five for every one they built.

Does that qualify me to the poor/skinflint level yet?

Get over it will ya? Most people buy what they can afford and often times shoot their less expensive guns more often than the multi thousand dollar safe queens that might see a firing line once or twice a year.

You spend $30,000 p/18 months on guns and approximately $15,000 on ammo and yet you complain about how many packaging peanuts there are in a box of AccuWedges for a gun that isn't even yours, going so far as to refuse to do business again with the people who shipped you the AccuWedges.

That's some sad shit right there.

Ridiculously over packaged!!
 
So, why can’t I find cheap A1 uppers?

Not an AR fan, but if I was I’d like something that was close to the old triangle hand guard, carry handle and sights needing a firing pin to adjust. Hate the round forend and flat top.
they where cheap 10 plus years ago now its all the cool retro rage $$$$ brownells has A1 retro uppers and old school A1 colt scopes....sadly not "cheap"
Also A1 is "granddads" rifle these days.
 
Buy
I already have a "good" AR, or at least a decent one. Windham with a trigger, bipod, good glass... This would be another (maybe 2) SHTF guns. Neighbor, backup to the backup, spare parts victim, whatever. Kinda like "2 is 1,1 is none" where the numbers are a little higher.

And hell, we all know that when a "bitter clinger" buys a EBG a liberal cries... "
Buy the sub $400 pos AR and shoot the shit out of it. Find some 80s vintage Norinco copper washed 223 while your at it and really show the nah sayers!!!!
We probably have all wasted $400 on shit some where.
My cheap friends all went PSA when prices first came back down close to pre Sandy Hook days. Sure they have issues from time to time but they shoot the cheapest steel cased crap they can find with the cheapest mags they can muster .....its all good , buy it shoot it prove NES wrong!
 
If you want some toys, go ahead. If you don't own a nice rifle yet, save some money and buy something from Bravo Company.
I haven't checked lately but Bravo Company did offer blemished parts for sale. Several years ago I got a nice upper for about half its regular price. It had a good scratch on top but the optic I've got on it hides that area. Others may offer blemished for sale too and that way you can get a higher quality part for less.
 
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