xtry51
NES Member
They were PSAs. They came with the PSA uppers.
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What am I missing?
- Thread starter Radtekk
- Start date
They were PSAs. They came with the PSA uppers.
Stag , are they any good? Heck parent company is continental machine and they make lots of AR parts for lots of other AR manufactures/builders/distributors
For the record my 1st AR was a stag 16” carbine with A2 lower. Completely abused and shot steel shit ammo , Sold it to a friend who continued to abuse it. At around 6k rounds he replaced the extractor cause someone said his spent cases whete not going in the right direction?
Fun stuff these ARs lots of grandfathers are thrilled their rifles are still popular
I have a Stag upper (first AR on a lower I assembled). No malfunctions.
I also have a PSA upper (beater/fun gun), and a BCM upper!
So, I think I win this thread's AR bingo.
For the record the PSA upper's been fine (20'' A2 style I converted into A1 style).
The BCM is obviously the nicest of the three.
A person shooting an AR for the second time only had no issues blasting water jugs at 60 yards offhand with the PSA.
But I'd still keep the BCM out of the three.
xtry51
NES Member
I'd just as soon never buy one again. If I weren't capable of machining them myself I would have put them right in the trash.
I'm glad your cheap stuff works great for you, but I'm not going to stop making fun of flinting, not now, not ever. Doesn't matter what it is, either. Whether it's a gun or a chinese spoon at
walmart. It may surprise you but some of my best friends are the biggest f***ing skinflints on the planet. The thing is though, most of the time when they flint, it's on something that
doesn't matter. Like when I go to HF and buy a battery charger, I'm under no illusion that it's "just as good" as a commercial grade unit, or that I somehow "beat the system" by paying
less. If you want to believe you can do that, then more power to you. It's your right to do so! Then again I also don't ascribe ego to guns or whatever, or stuff I own. Like I have an 800 dollar AR. I'm under no illusion that its anywhere near as good as the old Colt I had, or even the cheapest BCM you can buy today. It works perfectly well and I trust it enough to work if I
needed it to. However, you won't ever catch me calling it "really good" or "you should buy one of these" because I know better about what it actually is and it's place in the
hierarchy of ARs and various build features that are considered important by people who shoot Hajis in the face for a living, and the people who train them to do that. It's possible for me to
own a rifle that is adequate for my needs while still being considered marginal or "average" by anyone else that knows better. I won't lose sleep over it.
I am a bit biased because my entire career I've watched people kick their own ass by flinting on stuff. So the bias runs pretty strong here. It's unavoidable, when you see it validated over and over and over again. To summarize- no, it's not necessary to buy a Rolex if you need a new watch, but please, let's not try to blow smoke up people's asses by insisting that a BOLEX from the dude on the street in NYC is just as good..I mean PSA obviously isn't that bad, but the idea is the same. PSA might actually get to "Timex" level but not sure. Years ago a friend of mine on here and myself were going to destructively test one of their uppers but unfortunately he ended up selling the thing before we had a chance to do it.
-Mike
I'd be leery of a sub $500 AR in general. Just like my 'bargain' gaming computer, they have to cut corners somewhere to get the price that low. The power supply isn't 'name brand', the RAM isn't tier 1 stuff. I knew that when I bought it.
One thing about PSA is they deal in blemished stuff. I bought a blemished AR10 lower from them. I spent quite a while trying to find the 'cosmetic blemish', never found anything, it got messed up more from the range the first time I shot it.
It's also quite reasonable that a producer as large as PSA got their hands on someone's going out of business parts bin and threw together some guns on the cheap. Those could also just be 'price leaders' to get traffic to the site. You can build a $2k gun with parts from PSA, they have almost anything you could ever want on your gun.
Save the money, get good solid optics and more practice ammo.
Besides, an AR will always be a Timex no matter how much you try and bejewel it.
I think you nailed it. To some people, hitting a paper plate at 200 yards is good. I can hit a paper plate all day with a musket at 200 yards (shooting a round ball).Well, one of the huge problems that happened was Sandy Hook. So an easy 40-60% of the stuff being bought was bought by people who will rarely or ever shoot it, which allows the manufacturers to get away with a lot of sins. There are still ARs made by (whoever) littered in closets all over america that have never even been fired.
guns. A lot are probably junk, but it doesn't matter because they won't ever get fired, or not much, at least.
The other thing is peoples definition of a "good product" is going to vary widely. The good thing about the industry though is there's something for everyone. That's good for rights and the cause as a whole. Even if I would never buy the f***ing things, if a skinflint AR gets a guy or lady into rifle he otherwise wouldn't have, that's usually a net plus.
-Mike
A lot of people are happy hitting a 10" gong at 100 yards, which pretty much every single gun produced in the past 100 years can do.
So, does that mean the cheap AR is good? ... if it does what you want reliably, then I would say YES, good to that one person for his need.
That's a good story to hear. It's been a while since I've even looked at 556 guns, maybe my price window for a 'base quality' needs to change.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: Surplus M16A2 Capco Uppers AR15
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Cap'n Mike
NES Member
This is true about Police Departments, they buy cheap rifles in my experience.
The round counts tend to be quite high though.
A 200 man department might only have 20 rifles, and everybody uses them to train and qual every year.
oldguy68
NES Member
PSA Classic uppers had barrels are made by FN as are their CHF barrels.
Anyone want to guess who makes BCM and SpikesTactical CHF barrels..It starts with a F..
Buy a PSA with a CHF barrel.
Buy the better grade PSA parts and if something breaks. OH, nooos. just buy a new part.
Most of us lower tier operators understand that parts my break with any company.
Nothing is infallable, us tier 5 operators expect something to go wrong and actually prepare and train for it..
If I was a Tier 1 operator I would be replacing sh_t before it ever got a chance to break anyways..
Barrels, bolt carrier groups, triggers, springs, buffers and mags would be replaced at a certain very reasonable round count.
Then the what is this parts breakage you speak of would never happen.
If it's not a Colt, it's just a cheap copy anyways..LOL
Just like how Anderson Arms lowers are junk.
Funny if they work, why are they junk?
Because it isn't a BCM?
Glocks don't jam..
Give me some weak ass nasty ammo, a filthy, unlubed pistol, dirty factory mags (cause Glock mags never need cleaning) and a first series gen4 guide rod...
This goes along with the piece of sh_t Remington 700 SPS I have that shoots a group that everyone on the net says it shouldn't...
Smith and Wesson sucks..Colt 1911's are garbage..
Newsflash, nothing is made like it was in the 60's and 70's.
Anyone want to guess who makes BCM and SpikesTactical CHF barrels..It starts with a F..
Buy a PSA with a CHF barrel.
Buy the better grade PSA parts and if something breaks. OH, nooos. just buy a new part.
Most of us lower tier operators understand that parts my break with any company.
Nothing is infallable, us tier 5 operators expect something to go wrong and actually prepare and train for it..
If I was a Tier 1 operator I would be replacing sh_t before it ever got a chance to break anyways..
Barrels, bolt carrier groups, triggers, springs, buffers and mags would be replaced at a certain very reasonable round count.
Then the what is this parts breakage you speak of would never happen.
If it's not a Colt, it's just a cheap copy anyways..LOL
Just like how Anderson Arms lowers are junk.
Funny if they work, why are they junk?
Because it isn't a BCM?
Glocks don't jam..
Give me some weak ass nasty ammo, a filthy, unlubed pistol, dirty factory mags (cause Glock mags never need cleaning) and a first series gen4 guide rod...
This goes along with the piece of sh_t Remington 700 SPS I have that shoots a group that everyone on the net says it shouldn't...
Smith and Wesson sucks..Colt 1911's are garbage..
Newsflash, nothing is made like it was in the 60's and 70's.
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xtry51
NES Member
In my experience the round count is irrelevant to most police officers. You could put 50k rounds thru a Stag and the gun would still be a better shot than the guy holding it.
I have yet to see a group of cops at the range or at training gigs all have their rifles zeroed. And I've seen some rifles off by way more than a body at 50 yards. Frankly its embarrassing to their profession.
I know the CT state troopers used to only have once per year qual. They got to do it from any position with as much time as they wanted at 100yds and as many tries as they needed. A trooper I knew said some people would take all day to post an acceptable target. Even he was ashamed.
Cops should shoot a lot more than they do. At least once a week.
I have yet to see a group of cops at the range or at training gigs all have their rifles zeroed. And I've seen some rifles off by way more than a body at 50 yards. Frankly its embarrassing to their profession.
I know the CT state troopers used to only have once per year qual. They got to do it from any position with as much time as they wanted at 100yds and as many tries as they needed. A trooper I knew said some people would take all day to post an acceptable target. Even he was ashamed.
Cops should shoot a lot more than they do. At least once a week.
True Story
Cap'n Mike
NES Member
This is true.
High Round counts are more of a problem with Police Department Rifles reliability than accuracy.
Repairs mostly involve shipping it back to the manufacturer.
Preventive Maintenance is practically non existent beyond cleaning.
I dont know of any Department that rebuilds weapons like the military does.
When they start to wear out, PDs just buy new guns.
Arizona Dept. of Corrections. We had a nice box of the most commonly worn out parts (springs, pins, etc.) and could change barrels if necessary. Rear sights as well, although they are a PITA with the ball bearing and spring.
I'll just leave this here.
View: https://youtu.be/vIAdJGHeDOI
Of the 45 or so BCGs I own ( none of which are BCM) none of them look like that. Sure it wouldn't affect function but for supposed QC they have and the triple or more price they charge one would think that carrier would have been canned.
Again, a bad part can slip through from any company......but BCM told the guy "to get bent". Hmmm, that makes me want to spend my money there.......not!
View: https://youtu.be/vIAdJGHeDOI
Of the 45 or so BCGs I own ( none of which are BCM) none of them look like that. Sure it wouldn't affect function but for supposed QC they have and the triple or more price they charge one would think that carrier would have been canned.
Again, a bad part can slip through from any company......but BCM told the guy "to get bent". Hmmm, that makes me want to spend my money there.......not!
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xtry51
NES Member
I'd rather have a rough BCG that works than a nice looking one that doesn't. I get the aesthetic point. But to compare that to the PSAs I recieved that were not even machined to spec dims and malfunctioned in every rifle I put them in is not a fair comparison.
Did you miss the part.....BRAVO COMPANY TOLD THE GUY TO GET BENT????
I agree with you, I'm function over fashion all day everyday. Tool marks on non critical surfaces of things don't bother me a bit, but when some people pay almost a couple of hundred bucks for a part, its kind of expected to have a decent finish.
My issue is you and others so readily condemning everything PSA as being a line of junk when in fact the parts that they don't make themselves are sourced from the very same suppliers that the triple priced companies source from.
If there was a bad batch of carriers from the source company, you could just as easily have obtained those two from Bravo as they source their carriers from the very same shop PSA does.
xtry51
NES Member
As a person who deals with thousands of customers, I'm not quick to accept one person's anecdotal response at face value. I deal with unreasonable people everyday, offering solutions they don't like. I've never had an issue dealing with BCM in over a decade. PSA certainly didn't offer to replace my BCGs when I reported them.
Well, I got a notification yesterday that my upper shipped. We'll see what it looks like in a few days, and then I'll trek to Bud's to pick up the lower. Range report to follow...
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If I decide to make NES uppers and lowers you can bet your ass I'm not going to blame my suppliers if the shit stinks. You can say they use the same suppliers, but they dont do the QA work when their sub contracted junk comes in.
The market dictates. There are a lot of AR newbs, PSA is taking advantage of that. When those newbs start really using their blasters they will upgrade accordingly.
I agree, the market dictates and PSA is meeting that rapidly growing demand with a quality rifle for its price point for those newbs who are not ready to plunk down 2k on a rifle. And regardless of which PSA rifle or part that is purchased, its covered by a lifetime warranty.....and it transfers with ownership. I have never seen that offered by anyone in the gun industry.
My point about the suppliers is, if both are sourcing from the same shop, lets say each company gets 1000 bolt carriers. Bravo does all their QC and finds a failure rate of lets say 2.
Does it not stand to reason that the 1000 carriers that PSA got would have the same rate since they came from the same supplier?
xtry51
NES Member
I just told you they wouldn't replace my BCGs. So what warranty are you talking about? They can claim anything they want. Fact is they didnt replace my defective parts.
View: https://youtu.be/juNqfxhirBM
View: https://youtu.be/juNqfxhirBM
It’s the internet , anyone can write anything they want about their product , it doesn’t have to be true and factual , it just has to sell their product
oldguy68
NES Member
If you buy PSA premium parts with a CHF barrel I would say you got a very good value in an AR-15 rifle.
Mil-spec is thrown around by what ever that manufacturer says theirs are made to.
BCM does not manufacture their own parts. They even had bolts break and other quality issues.
I've read of Daniel Defense horror stories with rifle problems.
Lots of top tier AR-15 rifle manufacturers have had problems too.
Only Colt and FN have the actual data package as supplied by the United States Military.
Even then do they really follow them when they build civilian rifles?
If so how would anyone know?
When run hot and fast you will see that some lower quality AR-15 rifles fail.
Now, lots of things can cause that including crappy ammo, bad magazines, improper lubrication and lack of cleaning.
Some fixes for a low tier rifle may only cost a few bucks for say a better extractor spring kit.
Other fixes may cost more.
I look at how I shoot and if there is a problem I simply replace a part.
Most parts for an AR-15 are cheap. Know what are good parts and replace any that fail or are of lessor quality.
Buying an $2000.00 AR15 rifle and saying it runs better than a PSA made with their highest grade parts has been proven to be a false statement.
Every manufacturer has let out stinkers. PSA does seem to let out more than most. But I think their volume is higher because of their lower prices.
They are getting better at handling problems and that is a risk people are willing to take at their price point.
Not everyone can afford a Colt or $2000.00 AR-15.
Knowing what parts are in your rifle and who made them are just as or more important than the name on the side of the lower receiver.
Again, if it is not a Colt it's just a copy..LOL
Mil-spec is thrown around by what ever that manufacturer says theirs are made to.
BCM does not manufacture their own parts. They even had bolts break and other quality issues.
I've read of Daniel Defense horror stories with rifle problems.
Lots of top tier AR-15 rifle manufacturers have had problems too.
Only Colt and FN have the actual data package as supplied by the United States Military.
Even then do they really follow them when they build civilian rifles?
If so how would anyone know?
When run hot and fast you will see that some lower quality AR-15 rifles fail.
Now, lots of things can cause that including crappy ammo, bad magazines, improper lubrication and lack of cleaning.
Some fixes for a low tier rifle may only cost a few bucks for say a better extractor spring kit.
Other fixes may cost more.
I look at how I shoot and if there is a problem I simply replace a part.
Most parts for an AR-15 are cheap. Know what are good parts and replace any that fail or are of lessor quality.
Buying an $2000.00 AR15 rifle and saying it runs better than a PSA made with their highest grade parts has been proven to be a false statement.
Every manufacturer has let out stinkers. PSA does seem to let out more than most. But I think their volume is higher because of their lower prices.
They are getting better at handling problems and that is a risk people are willing to take at their price point.
Not everyone can afford a Colt or $2000.00 AR-15.
Knowing what parts are in your rifle and who made them are just as or more important than the name on the side of the lower receiver.
Again, if it is not a Colt it's just a copy..LOL
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I'm not trying to "operate", I just want something to shoot. I'm not going to bug out, or run around in the woods like Rambo scaring the aquirrels. I'm not doing torture tests or trying to shoot cloverleaf groups at 500 yards. I'm not a Smith, or a builder. I'm sure I could assemble a bunch of parts with a modicum of assistance, but I'll never be good enough to troubleshoot intricate problems.
The PSA is (as of now) 4th in my AR depth chart. Will there be other, higher quality, more reliable guns in my safe? Sure, eventually. But I just bought a house, and don't have $1500+for what I want as a base for a "build". When I do, I'll build it. For now"something that works almost all the time" is orders of magnitude better than "I'm saving my nickels to get something better". People that waited until 7/22 in MA got NOTHING.
So the PSA is, while not as good as many, certainly better than nothing. Kind of like my Hi-Point carbine is better than the Ruger PCC that I don't have yet. And fwiw I've never had a failure with ANY of the Hi-Points I've owned. So we'll see...
The PSA is (as of now) 4th in my AR depth chart. Will there be other, higher quality, more reliable guns in my safe? Sure, eventually. But I just bought a house, and don't have $1500+for what I want as a base for a "build". When I do, I'll build it. For now"something that works almost all the time" is orders of magnitude better than "I'm saving my nickels to get something better". People that waited until 7/22 in MA got NOTHING.
So the PSA is, while not as good as many, certainly better than nothing. Kind of like my Hi-Point carbine is better than the Ruger PCC that I don't have yet. And fwiw I've never had a failure with ANY of the Hi-Points I've owned. So we'll see...
