I usually load Hitek coated bullets like they are jacketed bullets since the coating is that good. Your comment would be correct for lead cast with no Hitek coating. My two cents.
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What did you do in the reloading room recently?
- Thread starter DW357
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I usually load Hitek coated bullets like they are jacketed bullets since the coating is that good. Your comment would be correct for lead cast with no Hitek coating. My two cents.
I think its a 1:16 twit in the henry's, so 158's are ideal.
I might have a half a pound left over, I'll check at noon.
Not sure how far you are from West Bridgewater, but you're more than welcome to it. I'm mostly .38 spl these days and I sold the Rossi, so its just taking up space for me.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
If 2400 doesn’t work I think unique would be perfect. It’s a good middle of the road powder.
Is 13.5 grains 2400 .38 plus p or 357 mag?Not that what I am shooting is comparable but I am pushing a 158 grain swc hitec coated lead bullet out of my Henry Big Boy using 13.5 grains of 2400. I was using 14.5 grains, but decided I wanted to leave some room for error. No idea about the OAL becuaue I crimp to the cannelure. I suspect it would be around 1.49. It works great. We hit steel plates at 120 yards standing and unsupported. I believe that in theory jacketed bullets can take more powder. I wonder if it would make sense to start a bit higher and work your way down, if there is any concern.
With that said, my expertise in this matter is limited so take my recommendation with a grain of powder
Pete
Lyman 50 is telling me 9.4 is Max for 38 special with a 158 grain jacketed.
My goal is 38 or 38 plus p so I can use them on the indoor range......indoors we are only allowed 9mm and 38 special (or plus p) out of a rifle indoors.
Or power pistol. I use that for mid range 357 and 7.62x25.
The owners manual on the Henry carbine even states when shooting 38 special to stay away from 125 and 130 grain bullets and use 158 grain.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
This too. There are a lot of mid range powders to use.
The anemic maximum pressure for the 3.5gr load doesn't fill me with confidence that Bullseye has been given a fair shake. It will never be a very good choice for that application, I would think, but maybe it would not deserve the adjective "terrible" if the charge were calibrated to put peak pressure closer to SAAMI maximum. Of course, if the pressure goes up rapidly as the charge is increased but little, then it would be time to write it off for that application.
Fritz the Cat
NES Member
And video it, please
I wish I had videoed the failures with the 3.5 bullseye for everyone to see. I considered firing one more to get it on camera but didn't feel like actually sticking one in the bore.....and overall it's just a bad idea to shoot ammo you knows not doing the right thing.
Bullseye is a fantastic powder for cast and swaged lead. I will still use it for cast bullet loads for both rifle and revolver. I got great accuracy out of it.
I'd say many of the data publishers agree it's not a good powder for jacketed 158 grain......I had to dig to find a published load even using bullseye at all for a 158 grain jacketed projo
In fairness I could have tried up to 4.1 grains bullseye according to nosler......but after almost sticking one in the bore.......I'm going to quit there.
peterk123
NES Member
Sorry about that. I forgot we were talking 38sp brass. Yes, my load is for 357 mag.
I have push a 38SP 158 grain Hitek RN through the Henry with only 3.6 grains of HP38 though. Never an issue. It is a very light load.
Sure. It's the conclusions that give me pause, not the decisions. The way I'm seeing this, there are two distinct but related issues.
First, there is the question of whether Bullseye is a good choice for this application. It isn't.
The second issue is why it failed so badly. You can run most any powder down to failure like the one you observed. As you consider faster and faster powders, in terms of energy, at least, the window of charges that will work tends to shrink, squibs to the left, over-pressure to the right. So where does Bullseye fall in that spectrum? Does it have a narrow open window, or is there no charge that will work? The simulation results suggest that it's possible to go higher, so all we can really conclude is that the charge was too light. One certain reason why Bullseye is not a good choice because you have many better choices available to you at this point, but if society collapsed and you found yourself with no loaded ammo and all you could find was a can of Bullseye, some primers, a 16" Henry Big Boy carbine, and 158 grain jacketed bullets, my guess is that you could make it work OK. Not saying it would be anybody's favorite deer cartridge.
I have a similar but rather different problem I've been pondering, i.e. loading for my Rossi Trapper with its stupid-slow rate of twist and oversized tapered chamber. I'd rather shoot 38's out of it, but the
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After rifling through a couple of reloading books at noon, Found .357 jacketed for rifle (listed a lot of slow powders, long barrel), but not .38 spl.
Found bullseye listed for .38 spl jacketed, but not for .38 spl jacketed out of a rifle.
Found bullseye listed for cast .357 rifle, but cast 38spl was just for handgun
Looks like you might have better luck working up a .357 load for both the rifle and the snub. But again, whats hot out of a 18" barrel might be the equivalent of fast-ball speeds out of the snub, or at least throw some really good flames.
And vice versa- Whats +P out of the snub might be too much for the rifle
Found bullseye listed for .38 spl jacketed, but not for .38 spl jacketed out of a rifle.
Found bullseye listed for cast .357 rifle, but cast 38spl was just for handgun
Looks like you might have better luck working up a .357 load for both the rifle and the snub. But again, whats hot out of a 18" barrel might be the equivalent of fast-ball speeds out of the snub, or at least throw some really good flames.
And vice versa- Whats +P out of the snub might be too much for the rifle
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Here's the thing.....there are jacketed bullet factory loads out there that "work" out of the Henry. Problem I'm having is they are 125 or 130 grain projos that the Henry won't group well. So that's why I'm at the 158 grain jacketed 38 hand load conundrum.
I've worked up a few 357 mag loads with 158 jacketed bullets that work decent in both the rifle and the snub. 16.3 grains h110 under a 158 grain jacketed works great out of both.
My desire to work up a 38 special load with 158 grain jacketed bullets is more to satisfy:
1. indoor range requirement (no 357 mag rifles indoors)
2. Economical reloads....to have fun with the rifle and snub.....I'm getting 158 jacketed cheaper than cast.....and 38 special loads can be made generally cheaper due to the lower powder charge.
3. I can't use lighter projos because the Henry doesn't like them as far as accuracy
I'll get there.....I have high hopes for the 2400 powder.
Don't know where you live, but Hopedale Pistol and Rifle Club now allows most pistol caliber rifles indoors from the 50' line. Rifle calibers allowed are: .22 rimfire; including .22 Winchester Magnum and “.22 Mini- Mag” Cartridge and the following handgun cartridges:
a. .32 S&W Long
b. .32 H&R Magnum
c. .38 Special
d. .357 Magnum
e. 9mm
f. .44 Special
g. .44 Magnum
h. .45 Long Colt
i. .45 ACP
I know I was the one who told you about the cheaper jacketed bullets ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
but would it be too much of a PITA to use coated bullets? You can get coated 158 gr SWC from blue bullets for just over 8 cents each (must buy 2,850...). Otherwise it's about 9 cents per 750 shipped.
That's what I do with 44 mag. I run jacketed bullets for full house magnum loads then coated for the light powder puff loads using Bullseye powder and more recently, Sport Pistol (burn rate is very similar to Bullseye but burns cleaner). These are shot in my DW 744 and Henry 44.
I'm in the market for a stainless 357 mag lever rifle and once I find one, I'll be loading my powder puff 357's with the coated 158 gr SWC's. Full house magnums will be loaded with the Zero 158's over 2400.
but would it be too much of a PITA to use coated bullets? You can get coated 158 gr SWC from blue bullets for just over 8 cents each (must buy 2,850...). Otherwise it's about 9 cents per 750 shipped.That's what I do with 44 mag. I run jacketed bullets for full house magnum loads then coated for the light powder puff loads using Bullseye powder and more recently, Sport Pistol (burn rate is very similar to Bullseye but burns cleaner). These are shot in my DW 744 and Henry 44.
I'm in the market for a stainless 357 mag lever rifle and once I find one, I'll be loading my powder puff 357's with the coated 158 gr SWC's. Full house magnums will be loaded with the Zero 158's over 2400.
That might be true. Sometimes guns are idiosyncratic about what ammo they like.
I posted this awhile back. It was my best group with my 20" Henry Big Boy Steel at 100 yards with 125gr Zero JHPC bullets over 7.5 grains of Universal in .357 magnum cases with Federal Small Pistol Magnum Match primers. I later measured muzzle velocity for this load at about 1400fps. The average 5-shot group was more like 1.5". Let's call it a 2 MOA load in that gun to be conservative.
I'm curious of your results as well. I have only shot .357 out of my Henry so far and was looking to try .38 spl for the economy.
My indoor range in Gloucester is the same as Whacko's. We also can't use jacketed bullets indoors so whacko's range is better in that regard lol.
Needless to say I rarely shoot indoors. Mainly for late night load testing of 9mm or testing some 22's.
Cast round nose flat points...158 grain using bullseye powder makes a great 38 soecial load for the Henry. Its like shooting 22lr recoil wise.....but it's actually a good load as far as bullet weight/velocity
I'm currently Just trying to go to jacketed.
I'll find a powder that works no worries!I know I was the one who told you about the cheaper jacketed bullets
That's what I do with 44 mag. I run jacketed bullets for full house magnum loads then coated for the light powder puff loads using Bullseye powder and more recently, Sport Pistol (burn rate is very similar to Bullseye but burns cleaner). These are shot in my DW 744 and Henry 44.
I'm in the market for a stainless 357 mag lever rifle and once I find one, I'll be loading my powder puff 357's with the coated 158 gr SWC's. Full house magnums will be loaded with the Zero 158's over 2400.
Thanks. I sent that photo both to Henry and to Roze. They seemed to like it.
I never had any luck from 158 grain Missouri Bullet Hi-Tek SWC's. To be fair, I was trying to run them at normal .357 magnum velocities. Maybe if I'd run them subsonic they would have done a lot better. I mean at 50-60 yards.
FWIW, Speer used to sell a 180g SIL bullet. Don't know if they are still in production. I think they may have offered a similar bullet in 200g, too.
reloadingunlimited.com
My brother has a mold for a 185g LRNFPGC, but I'm not sure if it's an LBT or Lee product. Heavier bullets are out there for the .38/.357. I've even got an NEI mold that drops a 162g LTC with my alloy.
I don't know if this would stabilize in your rifle, but I've loaded the 35 Remington bullet (Lyman 358315) in .38 cases (tends to bulge in a .357 case) and fired them in my GP100. These are loaded to .357 Magnum COLs or greater (measure to fit your firearm).
www.midwayusa.com
Speer Bullet 357-180-TMJ SIL – Reloading Unlimited
reloadingunlimited.com
I don't know if this would stabilize in your rifle, but I've loaded the 35 Remington bullet (Lyman 358315) in .38 cases (tends to bulge in a .357 case) and fired them in my GP100. These are loaded to .357 Magnum COLs or greater (measure to fit your firearm).
Lyman 2-Cavity Bullet Mold #358315 35 Cal (358 Diameter) 204 Grain
Lyman Bullet Molds are made from solid leaded-steel and machined to an exact and smooth super fine finish. The molds are then heat treated (that is why...
www.midwayusa.com
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Not sure if this is in response to my "pondering" for the Rossi. I could be wrong, but I think the Rossi's accuracy problem is that the 1:30 rate of twist doesn't handle heavier bullets as well as lighter ones. I was thinking about going the other way, perhaps a 105 grain TCFP bullet in a normal 38+P loading. The TCFP profile, unlike the 125gr RNFPs, might be long enough to cycle properly, and the lighter bullet would probably allow for a +P loading to get well over 1300fps out of the carbine anyway (just a guess), and because it is lighter, would need less velocity to stabilize as well, anyway. I'd probably go with Accurate #5 or similar for something like this. The Shooter's World Auto Pistol I have on hand would probably do the trick.
No, sorry "meh", that was more in response to "whacko's" dilemma.
The Lee 356-120TC is a handy bullet for the .38 Special and .357 Magnum (reduced loads). Technically, it's a 9mm bullet, but my mold drops them so I can size them for .38 and 35 Remington use. I don't know how smoothly it will feed in your lever gun, but the truncated cone profile makes for slick speed loading in the revolver.
Being a plain-base bullet, I suppose it is GTG for cowboy action shooting; don't they (SASS) require non-gas-checked bullets?
The Lee 356-120TC is a handy bullet for the .38 Special and .357 Magnum (reduced loads). Technically, it's a 9mm bullet, but my mold drops them so I can size them for .38 and 35 Remington use. I don't know how smoothly it will feed in your lever gun, but the truncated cone profile makes for slick speed loading in the revolver.
Being a plain-base bullet, I suppose it is GTG for cowboy action shooting; don't they (SASS) require non-gas-checked bullets?
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38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I’ve run this bullet with a pinch of clays powder in my 38 lever guns and it’s like shooting a .22 LR. The gun doesn’t move.
super fun.
Loaded up 50 each 38 special for testing in the Henry carbine
158 grain jacketed soft point
9 grains 2400
Winchester primer
Seated to 1.45
Lyman 50 says seat to 1.48 but 1.45 set at the cannilure better.
Data below. Can go 9.4 but dont want to start at max. Hoping the Henry likes these.
Also the 2400 powder tan through the Lee perfect measure very well. 9.0 or 9.1 on every throw. I weighed them all.
158 grain jacketed soft point
9 grains 2400
Winchester primer
Seated to 1.45
Lyman 50 says seat to 1.48 but 1.45 set at the cannilure better.
Data below. Can go 9.4 but dont want to start at max. Hoping the Henry likes these.
Also the 2400 powder tan through the Lee perfect measure very well. 9.0 or 9.1 on every throw. I weighed them all.
Yes, I hear you. That LTC and the Lyman 130g LRN (311410) seem to be my go to bullets for many calibers, at least when I get motivated to do any casting.
Enjoy!
