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WHAT DO YOU HATE THE MOST ABOUT COLT 1911s YES EVEN THE OLDER SERIES 70 GUNS ?????
- Thread starter BONESTOCK
- Start date
I had two lwt officers mods. Carried them, too. Given the right ammo, they ran like tops, but you had to keep the guns clean, that was imperative. That's why i had two..... i practiced with the 2nd one and carried the first. The carry gun I cleaned and shot a couple times a year. Changing the recoil springs was important, too.... they were only good for less than 1000 rnds before they got fagged out.The 1911 I still own that was actually made by Colt is an Officers Model. It's never given me a hint of trouble as long as I do my part.
So my anecdote beats your anecdote.
Naw, I'm kidding. I know a lot of folks have problems with them, but then plenty of folks have problems with full-size 1911s too. That whole limp-wrist thing.
Lol 1911s or any other handgun that isn't shit doesn't need a break in. That sounds like swill from Les Baer (aka less beer, if you're chinese). Guns that are fitted and QCed properly don't need that shit. All else fails, you need a gun plumber on speed dial for 1911s, If you don't have one you're in for a world of hurt. Thankfully its easier to find 1911 mechanics vs most guns.Getting back to the spirit of this 1911 hate thread...
Forgive me if it's in a previous post, but an especially hateworthy item of old slabsides is the odious and costly break-in period requiring hundreds of rounds.
It won't be long before the 1911 apologists chime in with something like "Mine has run perfectly right out of the box!" or "It's a machine. Machines need blah blah blah..."
The 1911 "break-in period" is a myth, of course. The break-in canard simply papers over the 1911's inherent reliability issues.
I suspect many disillusioned 1911 victims sell/trade their pistols well before enduring a 500-round "break-in period," or just give up and leave it in the safe.
Sure looks cool, though.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Nobody is immune..
My S&W M&P 9mm is jamming, jamming, jamming.. anybody else?
Hello, First off, let me say I'm new to shooting. The Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm Full size is my first firearm. I have been learning from a friend who has been shooting for years. He has TWO M&P's and they both work flawlessly, and are very accurate. They are the reason I bought the M&P 9mm FS...www.northeastshooters.com
Yes smith QC is garbage but by the numbers 1911s are most likely to fail on the line. Mostly because the bulk of the guns often aren't fitted properly or QCed well. I've literally seen SW1911s that were fitted so poorly they were destroying themselves, rounding off the lugs, etc. Worst one I've seen in modern history was the Remington R1. Those guns were so bad if you had 5 new ones in front of you, maybe 2 were fitted well. The rest were so bad a smart dealer would reject them and send them for repair or replacement.
fencer
NES Member
So true. But I am not carrying any gun until it's made a few range trips. Even Glock can let one slip by that has issues. I know there have been threads on it, and I'm not one of those guys that need to put 1000 rounds down the pipe to trust it, but it's gotta go through the paces.
Tartakovsky
NES Member
I had a Glock 19 Gen4 that was “problematic”. Had to send it back to Glock. I wouldn’t ever carry a gun I haven’t put at least a couple hundred rounds through first, I don’t care if it’s an Ed Brown.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
There's very little I don't like about the 1911. The first time I saw one was when I was drafted during the Viet Nam War. I thought it was small but all I had to compare it to was my Ruger Superblackhawk. I could do without the grip safety. I'm not a fan of the tiny sights on the military model but they weren't made for 70 year old eyes and most of mine have better sights.
USGI sights are gutter oil slathered dogshit peroid, good vision or bad. If the gun wasn't a natural pointer for most it would have been a huge problem. "Lets put this little bump on the top, thats good enough"
I'd only ever leave them intact on an heirloom/collector gun.
1911's? Not quite the perfection of the Remington 1858, but 1911's are still superior to Clock. (LOL I loved that thread)
Guess I need another- I only have two now and both are somewhat safe queens. Colt Custom Shop unit that was a gift from Mrs. Mountain a couple years after we were first married. Looks and operates smooth as glass. She worked for a gov contractor that was being wooed by Colt, so the price was ridiculous considering the quality of the gun. Her CFO knew I was a gun guy and gave us a head's up about the deal. The other is my 1st gen Delta Elite that became a bucket list gun for me back in my teens.
Guess I need another- I only have two now and both are somewhat safe queens. Colt Custom Shop unit that was a gift from Mrs. Mountain a couple years after we were first married. Looks and operates smooth as glass. She worked for a gov contractor that was being wooed by Colt, so the price was ridiculous considering the quality of the gun. Her CFO knew I was a gun guy and gave us a head's up about the deal. The other is my 1st gen Delta Elite that became a bucket list gun for me back in my teens.
nstassel
NES Member
I do laugh when I see some of the jam-o-matic cracks from the muh glock perfection crowd who learn all they need to know about guns from Facebook or at the gun shop. I've only shot 1911s for the past two years roughly since a fellow nesser put a notion in my head to shoot area 7 in single stack. I liked them already and shot a 9mm STI for a year in idpa and uspsa a couple years earlier. That gun gave zero failures with my reloads for probably 4-5000 rounds that year. I also had a TRP .45 that I shot a bit.
This present run has been mostly .45 with the TRP and a DW Pointman. Except for not locking back sometimes that I blame on a magazine they both run 100% with semi wad cutters. Both will feed empty .45 cases mixed in with live rounds for practice. I also added to the roster a 9mm Pointman and a Les Baer that fell into my hands. I'm at about 5000 rounds or so in the .45s with no issues. They just shoot great. I do clean them more than when I shot CZs, Glock 34 or the X5 and P320 that I shot one year.
Clearly these are not cutting edge fighting weapons. But they're wonderful guns that are nostalgic to shoot and very competitive in 9mm with other 10 shot esp idpa guns. So for my two cents I think someone who blasts 1911s just hasn't really got much experience with good ones or guns in general.
This present run has been mostly .45 with the TRP and a DW Pointman. Except for not locking back sometimes that I blame on a magazine they both run 100% with semi wad cutters. Both will feed empty .45 cases mixed in with live rounds for practice. I also added to the roster a 9mm Pointman and a Les Baer that fell into my hands. I'm at about 5000 rounds or so in the .45s with no issues. They just shoot great. I do clean them more than when I shot CZs, Glock 34 or the X5 and P320 that I shot one year.
Clearly these are not cutting edge fighting weapons. But they're wonderful guns that are nostalgic to shoot and very competitive in 9mm with other 10 shot esp idpa guns. So for my two cents I think someone who blasts 1911s just hasn't really got much experience with good ones or guns in general.
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There's an unbelievable amount of denial going on here. Sad.
Please, let's get real.
The 1911 was so bad, the US military decided to sh*tcan that POS about 40 years ago.
Yeah, I know I know... NATO uniformity, 9mm, etc.
If the "iconic workhorse" 1911 could still keep up, then why not just change over to 1911s in 9mm?
We know why.
The 1911 is a finicky, cantankerous and temperamental dog of a pistol.
Why anyone would carry this turd for CCW purposes these days is beyond belief.
It's not as if the 45ACP vs. 9mm argument means anything anymore.
My old Team Sergeant used to say his rule of thumb regarding pistols, he was talking about the M1911 here, is that they should be considered no more accurate than a thrown baseball. Most people can't reliably hit a man sized target beyond 10-15 feet with a baseball, especially when they are scared (or their target is whipping baseballs back) and similarly most people have no business engaging a target with a pistol beyond those ranges either.
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I regularly compete with a 9mm 1911 and some of the bigger matchs have round counts around 280 are far away and expensive and it can be an 8 or 9 hour day of shooting. For all the time and effort I put in if my 1911 was a jamomatic I wouldn't use it. I'd use a CZ or a sig. I have a lot of fun with the 1911 because its fitted to my hand and does what it's supposed to do when it's supposed to do it, I don't have to think about it. It frees me up to worry about more importent things like stage planing and lunch.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
I don't agree with the argument that the military dumped the 1911 because it was a POS. Recruits are kids who often know nothing about guns and the 1911 is NOT a beginner's gun. Would you use a racing car to teach a kid how to drive? The military needs something as simple as possible. Ease of operation is more important than performance. Yes many competition shooters use the 1911 but they're not beginners.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
There are lots of arguments for and against. This is all distraction. What the government buys has less than nothing to do with if the design is any good. See our roads.
The 1911s that the government owned were nearing 70 years old. They were at the end of their useful life. So they put out an RFP for a 9mm pistol to replace the units they had on hand. (The government does not, and should not, design firearms.)
There were two companies who cared to enter designs that met the spec. Colt was not one of those companies, and a 9mm 1911 was not one of the designs. When testing was complete, the Beretta won. We then used the M9 for 40 years.
I do want to give @polygraph603 credit: you're clearly having fun trolling the thread. And don't pretty well, since nobody is seeing it even when you said this is what you're doing. I still think polygraph is junk science, but you're improved in my book.
nstassel
NES Member
which is of course why some elite units choose to use 1911s while the grunts get strikers.
Commercial airline pilots under the FFDO program were given DAO HKs. Fotay, of course.
Polygraph testing is pseudoscience at best, no doubt about it.
Ironically, government entities (federal/state/municipal/local) comprise the single largest purveyor of such testing.
Accuracy is a mixed bag. Liars are usually identified quite easily, but truth tellers suffer a huge percentage of false outcomes. This is especially true in pre-employment tests for LE or government agency jobs.
Countermeasure information is freely available on the web, but it takes a lot of practice and discipline to execute them without being busted. I'm speaking of mental countermeasures here, not the thumbtack-in-the-shoe or sphincter-puckering techniques of yore. Motion-sensing equipment has made such countermeasures obsolete. Tongue biting or cheek biting can work, but it's risky.
Scientific legitimacy aside, polygraph testing is mainly about eliciting admissions. Hence, there's a lot of theater and mind games involved.
IIRC, one-eyed jack had a fortune telling studio not far from Chantilly on Great Road in Acton. This goes back a ways. I suspect Jack would acknowledge that "theater" plays a somewhat similar role in that realm, but in reverse.
One more thing, and you can take this to the bank...
... I've never trolled a day in my life.
Maybe.... but, imo, It was a lot simpler than that, there were double stack 9mms (p226, 92fs etc) that represented a free bingo space win as an upgrade path. They merely picked the most logical upgrade path, which the 1911 was simply not in a position to follow. Not because it was junk. Operationally a 1911 is simple on the outside.
IMHO the most "complicated" thing about a 1911 is that the guy or lady who built your given gun needed to know what the f*** they were doing when they fitted it.
That is actually an art, like a gunsmith art. And even if I can tell a gun is f***ed up, I still don't have the expertise to properly fix it. But I can tell a friend to go "This gun feels
wrong, you need to have a smith who knows what theyre doing fix it" .
It is this critical stage, this fitment of parts, plus, mating it with appropriate magazines that also are not junk, that literally determine the functional fate of a given
1911. Wether it runs or fails or is going to be a f***ing disaster. ( Well that and sometimes, quality of parts. one problem on lots of skinflint guns like say, a Taurus 1911, is that the parts used are f***ing garbage).
IMHO a 1911 will never be the most reliable platform. It just isnt possible, the design doesnt allow for it. HOWEVER- most of the shit people experience/complain with these guns is because theres a f***ing GIGANTIC number of guns on cheap end of the spectrum that are just dumped on the public, bad. OR theres a ton of WECSOG a**h***s running around ruining perfectly good 1911s. Like when you go to a USPSA match and you see some poor lady in SS or whatever get DQed because her gun goes BANG when the slide closed while doing an LAMR, you know that some inbred f***stick retard a**h*** (probably her husband?) has probably messed with the trigger in her gun. Now granted, I have seen this same kind of mental retardation with Glocks as well but its expressed differently.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
and thankfully those people dont have the time to f*** up all of the glocks lolBut heres like the cycle of malaise:
SOME GUY who is getting his first 1911 flints hard buys some used shitty USGI repro 1911 (lets face facts, a lot of the AO repro guns were poorly built) then gets it, gun jams constantly, never runs right, etc. Sends it back. They fix it "a little" but not all the issues, so it runs a little better but is still basically shit.
SOME GUY: "all 1911s are trash!!!!!!!"
and on and on and on
And when you have f***stick companies like Taurus and Remington (well, at the time) cranking out thousands of PT1911s and R1s, basically flooding the market with
trash, and a bunch of (insert other skinflint vendors here) or even S&W on a "bad month" QC wise, now you have a market where.... like 30% of the 1911s entering the
market are gutter trash. Oh and when sig first rolled out the GSR... TRASH! Thats going to have an influence on perceptions of the platform, that is hard to work around.
Oh lets also not forget brands like PARA ORDNANCE which basically mustve had a machine that was capable of taking a turd and casting it into a handgun, much like a Hi Point.
Or maybe you are one of those poor bastards with the 9000 S&W Scandium commanders or 5" guns where the shitty MIM plunger tube posts sheared right off the gun? Thankfully most of the time if anyone was paying attention they would catch it before both posts sheard and the whole tube fell off.
Also you haven't lived until you pick up an S&W 1911 e series and have the right side safety lever fall off in your hands because nobody bothered to fit it properly.
The platform does NOT lend itself to being manufactured by fools. And then the customer always pays the price.
It also does not help matters that when 1911s fail its not always a HARD failure. But they will often fail in a very non-linear manner. "I fired 120 rounds out of it today and it only jammed once" well, welcome to RANDO 1911 land. Thats exactly the kind of shit a just-on-the-edge-of-proper fitted gun will do to you. It will make you think it is normal, and then, PUNCH YOU IN THE RECTUM. thankfully none of my 1911s do shit like that, but I have had some in the past did exactly that
See Also:
IM LOOKING AT YOU, KRAPBER, with your f***ing BENT f***ING frame.
Like who really let that out of the factory? REALLY? View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y
IMHO the most "complicated" thing about a 1911 is that the guy or lady who built your given gun needed to know what the f*** they were doing when they fitted it.
That is actually an art, like a gunsmith art. And even if I can tell a gun is f***ed up, I still don't have the expertise to properly fix it. But I can tell a friend to go "This gun feels
wrong, you need to have a smith who knows what theyre doing fix it" .
It is this critical stage, this fitment of parts, plus, mating it with appropriate magazines that also are not junk, that literally determine the functional fate of a given
1911. Wether it runs or fails or is going to be a f***ing disaster. ( Well that and sometimes, quality of parts. one problem on lots of skinflint guns like say, a Taurus 1911, is that the parts used are f***ing garbage).
IMHO a 1911 will never be the most reliable platform. It just isnt possible, the design doesnt allow for it. HOWEVER- most of the shit people experience/complain with these guns is because theres a f***ing GIGANTIC number of guns on cheap end of the spectrum that are just dumped on the public, bad. OR theres a ton of WECSOG a**h***s running around ruining perfectly good 1911s. Like when you go to a USPSA match and you see some poor lady in SS or whatever get DQed because her gun goes BANG when the slide closed while doing an LAMR, you know that some inbred f***stick retard a**h*** (probably her husband?) has probably messed with the trigger in her gun. Now granted, I have seen this same kind of mental retardation with Glocks as well but its expressed differently.
But heres like the cycle of malaise:
SOME GUY who is getting his first 1911 flints hard buys some used shitty USGI repro 1911 (lets face facts, a lot of the AO repro guns were poorly built) then gets it, gun jams constantly, never runs right, etc. Sends it back. They fix it "a little" but not all the issues, so it runs a little better but is still basically shit.
SOME GUY: "all 1911s are trash!!!!!!!"
and on and on and on
And when you have f***stick companies like Taurus and Remington (well, at the time) cranking out thousands of PT1911s and R1s, basically flooding the market with
trash, and a bunch of (insert other skinflint vendors here) or even S&W on a "bad month" QC wise, now you have a market where.... like 30% of the 1911s entering the
market are gutter trash. Oh and when sig first rolled out the GSR... TRASH! Thats going to have an influence on perceptions of the platform, that is hard to work around.
Oh lets also not forget brands like PARA ORDNANCE which basically mustve had a machine that was capable of taking a turd and casting it into a handgun, much like a Hi Point.
Or maybe you are one of those poor bastards with the 9000 S&W Scandium commanders or 5" guns where the shitty MIM plunger tube posts sheared right off the gun? Thankfully most of the time if anyone was paying attention they would catch it before both posts sheard and the whole tube fell off.
Also you haven't lived until you pick up an S&W 1911 e series and have the right side safety lever fall off in your hands because nobody bothered to fit it properly.
The platform does NOT lend itself to being manufactured by fools. And then the customer always pays the price.
It also does not help matters that when 1911s fail its not always a HARD failure. But they will often fail in a very non-linear manner. "I fired 120 rounds out of it today and it only jammed once" well, welcome to RANDO 1911 land. Thats exactly the kind of shit a just-on-the-edge-of-proper fitted gun will do to you. It will make you think it is normal, and then, PUNCH YOU IN THE RECTUM. thankfully none of my 1911s do shit like that, but I have had some in the past did exactly that
See Also:
IM LOOKING AT YOU, KRAPBER, with your f***ing BENT f***ING frame.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y
…don’t hold back, man.
Let it all out.
