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Why is the .40 caliber losing popularity?
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Dennis in MA
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I've still got a few 40's left. And likely enough ammo (1000-1500 rds) of ammo for them for the rest of my life. LOL
It's not that I've strayed from the 40. It's that Glock keeps innovating. . . . in 9.
It's not that I've strayed from the 40. It's that Glock keeps innovating. . . . in 9.
I've got a 229 in .40, holds 14 w/ the mec-gar mags. I can't find much to be desired in that pistol.
Maybe in 9mm it would hold 18. It doesn't recoil much in .40. I don't see much drawback to .40 on the platform and was thinking of buying a 2nd in a Legion this time but unfortunately only 9mm is now available.
When you start getting down to < 10 rounds in a full size-ish pistol I feel today it is more range bling than a defense weapon. Not saying people get into such actual gunfights just that its hard to say "8 rounds is enough" when a different similar sized weapon holds 15.
10mm is great, I wish Sig would offer it in a similar format as a 229 or 226, ie double stack DA/SA, I bought a Glock 20 instead.
For folks in ban states, if the choice was 10 rounds of 9mm or .40, I would always choose .40 in all but the micro pistols.
Maybe in 9mm it would hold 18. It doesn't recoil much in .40. I don't see much drawback to .40 on the platform and was thinking of buying a 2nd in a Legion this time but unfortunately only 9mm is now available.
When you start getting down to < 10 rounds in a full size-ish pistol I feel today it is more range bling than a defense weapon. Not saying people get into such actual gunfights just that its hard to say "8 rounds is enough" when a different similar sized weapon holds 15.
10mm is great, I wish Sig would offer it in a similar format as a 229 or 226, ie double stack DA/SA, I bought a Glock 20 instead.
For folks in ban states, if the choice was 10 rounds of 9mm or .40, I would always choose .40 in all but the micro pistols.
The Gen5 G23 is out..... I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see one last week. IMHO they did this because they probably still have enough LE customers that are still using .40 that they might be able to upsell them into those guns eventually in a forklift-upgrade sort of way.
DeadEyeDan
NES Member
Got to say I don’t really understand the recoil complaints in practical terms, 9mm to 10mm/.45 are all pretty manageable... maybe 9mm is a bit faster in a IPDA match... but IMHO anything less then .357/.44 Magnum is not a major issue.
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I notice 9mm is a little softer shooting, *a little* but to me .40 and 10mm aren't much different or much more than 9mm..
What I do notice is .45, my 220 in .45 significantly changes my follow up shots.
The idea that .40 is too much recoil for me is a head scratcher too.
180 GRAIN FMJ
NES Member
There are pluses and minuses for any pistol caliber. The problem with relying on "bullet performance" to get the job done is the unknown variable.
That's the biggest issue with the 9mm. If little or no expansion takes place then the modern ammo is no better than the legacy stuff.
That's where the .40 and especially the .45 have an advantage.
That's the biggest issue with the 9mm. If little or no expansion takes place then the modern ammo is no better than the legacy stuff.
That's where the .40 and especially the .45 have an advantage.
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Rim lock.
bauer
NES Member
Going from memory but doesn’t Sig offer the 220 in 10mm? (Or perhaps they did in the past ?). Again I could be wrong here
Edit: yes they do
P220 Legion Full-Size
The legendary P220 pistol receives a series of enhancements based on the needs and wants of professionals. Available in .45 Auto and 10mm
www.sigsauer.com
Same (or very similar) in size to the 226 and same manual of arms
2nd edit: missed the double stack requirement. Maybe they offered the p227 (double stack version of 220) in 10mm?
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greencobra
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that pistol, nice as it is, is a boat anchor now in that caliber. i remember going down to buy one around '94 and spotted the 220 and bought that instead. very glad now, still own it.
don't try too hard to get rid of you're .40 chambered guns right this moment. .40 and 10mm is pretty much always on the shelf anywhere. if you're not a target sports vulture waiting for the wagon train to roll, this is a good time to stock up locally.
Hey, I can hit mostly As with my 127pf 9mm loads.The answer is simple: Evolution.
Evolution of man, from this:
View attachment 399914
To this:
And evolution of targets from this:
View attachment 399915
To this:
That's all you really need to know about .40 cal vs. 9mm.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
This guy also thinks .40 is too much recoil.
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Super Comp AFAIK you're making it yourself, which is no issue....except the brass. It's pricey. You end up worrying more about where that last piece you can't find landed than figgering how you're going to game the next stage. Hands down the single biggest advantage bar none to 9x19 is the fact you can walk over to the barrel at the range and scoop all the brass you'll need.More even if your a pig. If you go right after the cops train it'll all be once fired, same manufacturer.
I never thought the .40 was “too much” recoil, but I sure as hell didn’t like the way it felt. Add that to the better capacity, similar terminals, and at one time better prices of 9mm, and it seemed like a pretty clear choice to me.
Is it 9x23 or 9x25 that was a winchester production, which was is also .38 super comp, which is rimless .38 super?
Too many 9's
allen-1
NES Member
The .308 is a IMI/Magnum Research Lone Eagle single shot pistol... it has a rotating breach, appropriate for a “Hand Cannon”, unfortunately no easy way to take a photo since it is part of my out of state collection along with the AR and AK pistols, the FN-57 , Glock 34 and bunch of others... that are illegal to bring to MA or the mags I have for them are illegal... or I just don’t have the space...
"bunch of others... that are illegal to bring to MA or the mags I have for them are illegal... or I just don’t have the space...
"
First-World Problem Horror Stories
I had a true First-World Tragedy, today. Someone at work brought in a six-pack of Creme Brulee, today. This is one of my favorites. I looked forward to it, all day, to have with a nice cup of coffee, in the afternoon. The. Damned. Butane. Torch. Would. NOT. Light! I had to eat it, without...
www.northeastshooters.com
Going from memory but doesn’t Sig offer the 220 in 10mm? (Or perhaps they did in the past ?). Again I could be wrong here
Edit: yes they do
P220 Legion Full-Size
The legendary P220 pistol receives a series of enhancements based on the needs and wants of professionals. Available in .45 Auto and 10mm
Same (or very similar) in size to the 226 and same manual of arms
2nd edit: missed the double stack requirement. Maybe they offered the p227 (double stack version of 220) in 10mm?
My issue with the Sig 10mm offering is the only option is an 8 round mega pistol, longer than a .45 220 even. Designed for hunting or target only.
Even the 220 in .45 is really an 8 round pistol though they sell some really fugly 10 round mags for it. I get it, single stack, but by that measure the 10mm 220 should've really been at least designed around 10 rounds since the caliber is thinner and the pistol is larger. What they did just makes no sense to me.
If they offered the 227 in 10mm they don't offer that pistol anymore, but I think at the time it was .45 only.
Glock 20s are great, mags hold 15, are extremely reliable, Sig could do the same easily.
DeadEyeDan
NES Member
I’m being ridiculed I know... but having my toys four states away is not ideal... it’s like having a girl friend, but she’s in Canada"bunch of others... that are illegal to bring to MA or the mags I have for them are illegal... or I just don’t have the space...
First-World Problem Horror Stories
I had a true First-World Tragedy, today. Someone at work brought in a six-pack of Creme Brulee, today. This is one of my favorites. I looked forward to it, all day, to have with a nice cup of coffee, in the afternoon. The. Damned. Butane. Torch. Would. NOT. Light! I had to eat it, without...
... do you really have a girl friend? 
DeadEyeDan
NES Member
I’d buy a Glock Model 40 (10mm) in a sec if I didn’t live in this f’ed up state...
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I'll never understand the determination to carry a specific caliber of firearm due to cost of the ammunition.
The first and foremost consideration should be the ability to accurately fire your weapon.
Followed by stopping power.
A person who can accurately and dependably engage an attacker with a .22 rimfire is in a much more survivable situation than a person with a .500 magnum that can't hit the side of a barn.
Carry and train with what you shoot best, Caliber be damned...
~Enbloc
The first and foremost consideration should be the ability to accurately fire your weapon.
Followed by stopping power.
A person who can accurately and dependably engage an attacker with a .22 rimfire is in a much more survivable situation than a person with a .500 magnum that can't hit the side of a barn.
Carry and train with what you shoot best, Caliber be damned...
~Enbloc
The two are inextricably linked, though. One can afford to train more with lower ammo costs.
If someone made a .40 revolver that didn't s*ck, and had 8 shots, I would buy it.
It is basically an Encore.
There is nothing illegal about that Magnum Research handgun in MA.The .308 is a IMI/Magnum Research Lone Eagle single shot pistol... it has a rotating breach, appropriate for a “Hand Cannon”, unfortunately no easy way to take a photo since it is part of my out of state collection along with the AR and AK pistols, the FN-57 , Glock 34 and bunch of others... that are illegal to bring to MA or the mags I have for them are illegal... or I just don’t have the space...
It is basically an Encore.
DeadEyeDan
NES Member
No room in the safe up here...
CRSIII
NES Member
Compliments of EC.
I dislike the .40 on principle, and also because of personal experience not related to the performance of the cartridge.
On Principle
The .40 is symbolic of the pussification of America. You see... in the past, someone at a firearms company took a look at a cartridge like the .38 S&W and said, "Hey... If we made this thing longer, we could get more powder into it and make it more powerful." Everybody within earshot said, "Let's do it!", and the .38 Special was born.
One night several decades later, Colonel D. B. Wesson and Phil Sharpe were sitting around on stools made from elephant legs, drinking straight whiskey and smoking Cuban cigars when the Col picked up a .38 Special and said, "Dude, we should make this thing longer, stuff it full of smokeless powder, and give it a cool name. It would kick ass!" to which Phil Sharpe replied, "You're a pussy if you don't", and Bingo! the .357 Magnum was born.
The same thing happened with the .44 - except Elmer Keith wouldn't stop whining about it so he was drinking whiskey alone, angrily writing magazine articles until Remington finally made his cartridge.
The .40 was developed backwards.
In April of 1986, the FBI was involved in a shootout in Miami with two heavily armed career criminals. The bad guys were killed, but not before they took the lives of FBI Special Agents Gerald Dove and Benjamin Grogan. The subsequent investigation placed partial blame for the agents' deaths on the lack of stopping power exhibited by their 9mm handguns, so the FBI adopted the far superior 10mm cartridge.
Field agents loved the additional firepower, but some of the sissy office staff complained about the 10mm's recoil. One day, some pale doughy accountant picked up a 10mm and said, "If someone else would make this smaller and weaker, it wouldn't hurt my little hand as much when I shoot it." His transgender assistant said, "That a great idea! They could even make the guns smaller to fit in my evening bag", and the .40 was born.
Personal Experience
I've been shooting since my early teens. When I was looking for a carry handgun, I made the mistake of asking a blowhard know-it-all former co-worker his opinion.
He had one gun - a Sigma in .40 S&W - which in his mind made him an expert on firearms - and since he had a .40, it had to be the best cartridge ever conceived. After that, every time he saw me he'd spend what seemed like hours expounding on the virtues of the .40 as "the perfect cartridge". As a result, I began to hate it.
The deal was sealed soon thereafter, when I had a bad gun shop experience with some crusty old fossil that tried to hard-sell me a .40. The non-conformist in me kicked into high gear and I said to myself, "I'm never going to own one of these friggin' things".
A side story about the know-it-all blowhard:
A couple of years ago I was talking to the know-it-all blowhard and I mentioned that I was reloading for my .500. He said, "There's no such thing as a .50 caliber revolver". I directed him to Google and told him to do his research. (He must've missed the release of the X-frames because he couldn't hear it over the sound of how awesome the .40 is).
After he decided that it existed, he asked if he could shoot my .500 because he was "proficient with big bore revolvers" and might be able to show me some tips on shooting it. So, I took Mr. Proficiency out to the range, put a single mild load in my 8" .500, he shot it, and dropped my gun! He grabbed his wrist and started hopping around crying like Nancy Kerrigan. He broke the fiberoptic front sight on my revolver and never paid for it. He still loves the .40 though.
Compliments of EC.
I dislike the .40 on principle, and also because of personal experience not related to the performance of the cartridge.
On Principle
The .40 is symbolic of the pussification of America. You see... in the past, someone at a firearms company took a look at a cartridge like the .38 S&W and said, "Hey... If we made this thing longer, we could get more powder into it and make it more powerful." Everybody within earshot said, "Let's do it!", and the .38 Special was born.
One night several decades later, Colonel D. B. Wesson and Phil Sharpe were sitting around on stools made from elephant legs, drinking straight whiskey and smoking Cuban cigars when the Col picked up a .38 Special and said, "Dude, we should make this thing longer, stuff it full of smokeless powder, and give it a cool name. It would kick ass!" to which Phil Sharpe replied, "You're a pussy if you don't", and Bingo! the .357 Magnum was born.
The same thing happened with the .44 - except Elmer Keith wouldn't stop whining about it so he was drinking whiskey alone, angrily writing magazine articles until Remington finally made his cartridge.
The .40 was developed backwards.
In April of 1986, the FBI was involved in a shootout in Miami with two heavily armed career criminals. The bad guys were killed, but not before they took the lives of FBI Special Agents Gerald Dove and Benjamin Grogan. The subsequent investigation placed partial blame for the agents' deaths on the lack of stopping power exhibited by their 9mm handguns, so the FBI adopted the far superior 10mm cartridge.
Field agents loved the additional firepower, but some of the sissy office staff complained about the 10mm's recoil. One day, some pale doughy accountant picked up a 10mm and said, "If someone else would make this smaller and weaker, it wouldn't hurt my little hand as much when I shoot it." His transgender assistant said, "That a great idea! They could even make the guns smaller to fit in my evening bag", and the .40 was born.
Personal Experience
I've been shooting since my early teens. When I was looking for a carry handgun, I made the mistake of asking a blowhard know-it-all former co-worker his opinion.
He had one gun - a Sigma in .40 S&W - which in his mind made him an expert on firearms - and since he had a .40, it had to be the best cartridge ever conceived. After that, every time he saw me he'd spend what seemed like hours expounding on the virtues of the .40 as "the perfect cartridge". As a result, I began to hate it.
The deal was sealed soon thereafter, when I had a bad gun shop experience with some crusty old fossil that tried to hard-sell me a .40. The non-conformist in me kicked into high gear and I said to myself, "I'm never going to own one of these friggin' things".
A side story about the know-it-all blowhard:
A couple of years ago I was talking to the know-it-all blowhard and I mentioned that I was reloading for my .500. He said, "There's no such thing as a .50 caliber revolver". I directed him to Google and told him to do his research. (He must've missed the release of the X-frames because he couldn't hear it over the sound of how awesome the .40 is).
After he decided that it existed, he asked if he could shoot my .500 because he was "proficient with big bore revolvers" and might be able to show me some tips on shooting it. So, I took Mr. Proficiency out to the range, put a single mild load in my 8" .500, he shot it, and dropped my gun! He grabbed his wrist and started hopping around crying like Nancy Kerrigan. He broke the fiberoptic front sight on my revolver and never paid for it. He still loves the .40 though.
Compliments of EC.
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