Worman v. Baker (MA AWB) Oral Arguments 1-9-2019

Dadstoys said:
I understand that it's hard to accept the a guy many of us voted for sold us out at the first opportunity.
He's just another common con man and we got had.
Don't think for a second that if anything anti hits his desk it wouldn't have his signature on it in a heartbeat.
No one likes to admit they got taken , so the old , " We had to vote for the republican " excuse comes in.
Not doing it anymore.
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That wasn't my point, he can't be trusted. Most of the establishment republicans are the same way, they will tell you what it takes to get you to vote for them and then never do anything to help with excuses like "We don't have enough votes, so I can't even suggest it". I was just pointing out why he never bothered to back us on this, whether he wants our votes or not (It isn't enough votes to swing any politician in this state) either him or someone close to him did the math and decided which way the winds were blowing for him. In that same way he would sign any anti gun nonsense that hit his desk because it protects him, the only person he cares about.
 
MachineHead said:
Any chance Kolbe v. Hogan will be heard by SCOTUS by the time this case gets to trial ?
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The Kolbe v Hogan petition for certiorari was filed yesterday with the Supreme Court. If the court grants cert, it will be heard next session. I'll start a new thread when I can find a link to the petition.

For those who missed it, the circuit court opinion that's being brought to SCOTUS is so bad that it's actually good.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
The Kolbe v Hogan petition for certiorari was filed yesterday with the Supreme Court. If the court grants cert, it will be heard next session. I'll start a new thread when I can find a link to the petition.

For those who missed it, the circuit court opinion that's being brought to SCOTUS is so bad that it's actually good.
Click to expand...

I just saw that the cert was filed and was wondering of this was a good case for us to hope they take. Thanks for the update.
 
When is the scope of discovery (if any) determined in this case? Is there any probative value to evidence of collusion or coordination between Healey and other anti-2A politicians and anti-2A groups if that evidence frames her action as a publicity stunt and not a public safety measure?
 
Just read the intro to Healey's motion to dismiss. Basically, Healey is saying that the 11th amendment protects her from this suit on the basis that she has nothing to do with the AWB (probably using the argument that she's just the enforcer). Hilarious. The MTD might apply to Baker and MSP, unfortunately. IANAL [popcorn]
 
SKumar said:
Just read the intro to Healey's motion to dismiss. Basically, Healey is saying that the 11th amendment protects her from this suit on the basis that she has nothing to do with the AWB (probably using the argument that she's just the enforcer). Hilarious. The MTD might apply to Baker and MSP, unfortunately. IANAL [popcorn]
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So the AG charged with prosecuting violations of the law has nothing to do with it. The governor's office (understand it wasn't Baker) who signed it into law has nothing to do with it. The state police charged with it's enforcement have nothing to do with it. Correct me if I'm wrong but Haley's motion would basically mean this law is unenforceable since no one has anything to do with it. Sweet. Where can I order some P-Mags? And how do we get anyone and everyone who's ever been charged acquitted since they were wrongly prosecuted?
 
firestorm said:
That wasn't my point, he can't be trusted. Most of the establishment republicans are the same way, they will tell you what it takes to get you to vote for them and then never do anything to help with excuses like "We don't have enough votes, so I can't even suggest it". I was just pointing out why he never bothered to back us on this, whether he wants our votes or not (It isn't enough votes to swing any politician in this state) either him or someone close to him did the math and decided which way the winds were blowing for him. In that same way he would sign any anti gun nonsense that hit his desk because it protects him, the only person he cares about.
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We'll have to see how the math works out I guess.
He won over Martha by 40,000 IIRC .
That's with 400,000 gun owners in this state that would have voted for Charlie Manson over her.
My math skills admittedly suck but there's a lot more zeros in one box than in the other.
Now that we know he's no better than her, we shall see.
 
otasan said:
I wonder how pro-gun the SCOTUS is?
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IANAL, but I'm guessing the SCOTUS justices on their own (at least the really pro 2A ones) independently read up on 2A cases before they receive them. We'll probably never get an answer, but I wonder if the 2A justices discuss cases amongst themselves while golfing or whatever.
 
Dadstoys said:
We'll have to see how the math works out I guess.
He won over Martha by 40,000 IIRC .
That's with 400,000 gun owners in this state that would have voted for Charlie Manson over her.
My math skills admittedly suck but there's a lot more zeros in one box than in the other.
Now that we know he's no better than her, we shall see.
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I think your math is wrong. I would bet half of those gun owners are straight D voting liberal FUDDs who happen to have a gun. If voter turnout is 50% then I bet at least 100k gun owners voted for Martha.
 
WAAF had the Guv on for their monthly "Breakfast with Baker" segment this morning on the Hillman morning show and Greg the "Hillman" Hill claimed that there was a recent poll that allegedly named Baker as the #1 most loved governor in America. I've no idea who commissioned that poll, what the criteria for "most loved" status was or anything else. All I know is that no one asked my opinion, and if his level of mediocrity is something to be loved then we truly are royally screwed as a country.

Or maybe that's just unique to how we measure success here in the bay state...
 
Len S said it best - any direct statement from Baker condemning the Healy treachery would be presenting copy-ready material to his opponent in the next election. What is better for us? Baker posturing against Healy (without changing anything) or Healy running on a "my opponent is soft on guns" platform in the DPRM?
 
bigblue said:
I think your math is wrong. I would bet half of those gun owners are straight D voting liberal FUDDs who happen to have a gun. If voter turnout is 50% then I bet at least 100k gun owners voted for Martha.
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That was pre Maura shit show.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I know I'm doing my best to get the word out about backstabbing Charlie.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Len S said it best - any direct statement from Baker condemning the Healy treachery would be presenting copy-ready material to his opponent in the next election. What is better for us? Baker posturing against Healy (without changing anything) or Healy running on a "my opponent is soft on guns" platform in the DPRM?
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I'd call it a wash wouldn't you?
We got f*cked and he held her jacket for her.
Wait till after 2018 if he gets re-elected.
I think there is no desire to stir the pot anymore till after the election and maybe a better feel on how the suits are going.
Then it's full retard against us and Charlie will be signing whatever hits his desk.
Who's side do you really think he'll come down on ?
 
Whutmeworry said:
WAAF had the Guv on for their monthly "Breakfast with Baker" segment this morning on the Hillman morning show and Greg the "Hillman" Hill claimed that there was a recent poll that allegedly named Baker as the #1 most loved governor in America. I've no idea who commissioned that poll, what the criteria for "most loved" status was or anything else. All I know is that no one asked my opinion, and if his level of mediocrity is something to be loved then we truly are royally screwed as a country.

Or maybe that's just unique to how we measure success here in the bay state...
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Liberals prefer weenie rino's.
 
Dadstoys said:
That was pre Maura shit show.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I know I'm doing my best to get the word out about backstabbing Charlie.
Click to expand...


Go shoot skeet and take a poll: I bet most of them have no clue and/or don't give a shit. I think you guys overestimate how many gun owners are educated on this subject.
 
I don't think Baker is pro-gun or anti-gun. I'm disappointed with his response to Healey (to say the least). But generally, he's doing a pretty good job running the state, and unfortunately teaching him a "lesson" would backfire in unimaginable ways. Unless you clowns think we'd be better with Healey as Governor and her protege as AG... because that is the other option. But cut off your nose to spite your face.

Mike
 
The difference in Baker will go along with whatever crap the AG or legislature dreams up.

Healy would be championing new anti-gun insurgency and pushing it in the legislature.

Neither is good, but there is a difference.
 
crazymjb said:
I don't think Baker is pro-gun or anti-gun. I'm disappointed with his response to Healey (to say the least). But generally, he's doing a pretty good job running the state, and unfortunately teaching him a "lesson" would backfire in unimaginable ways. Unless you clowns think we'd be better with Healey as Governor and her protege as AG... because that is the other option. But cut off your nose to spite your face.

Mike
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Ya we could end up with something like an unconstitutional law banning a whole class of firearms that the AG pulls out of thin air and a Governor who supports it.
That would be terrible.
 
That's just it. This wasn't a law. There are all sorts of legal angles of attack on it. We could also end up with increasing taxes, regulation, etc on every other aspect of our lives. Also a ballooning state debt and businesses leaving the state.

Mike
 
Whutmeworry said:
WAAF had the Guv on for their monthly "Breakfast with Baker" segment this morning on the Hillman morning show and Greg the "Hillman" Hill claimed that there was a recent poll that allegedly named Baker as the #1 most loved governor in America. I've no idea who commissioned that poll, what the criteria for "most loved" status was or anything else. All I know is that no one asked my opinion, and if his level of mediocrity is something to be loved then we truly are royally screwed as a country.

Or maybe that's just unique to how we measure success here in the bay state...
Click to expand...

The WAAF guys sometimes TALK A GOOD GAME, but then they get the .guv on and get all smarmy with him. Same with Matt Light. Why can't we get these guys to commit in a solid way? It would NOT hurt their ratings.


bigblue said:
Go shoot skeet and take a poll: I bet most of them have no clue and/or don't give a shit. I think you guys overestimate how many gun owners are educated on this subject.
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I think you are wrong and underestimate. They have a clue, but need to get motivated. The closest was when there were buses heading out from clubs to the statehouse.


Dadstoys said:
That's where we need to get to work.
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Yes.


crazymjb said:
That's just it. This wasn't a law. There are all sorts of legal angles of attack on it. We could also end up with increasing taxes, regulation, etc on every other aspect of our lives. Also a ballooning state debt and businesses leaving the state.
Click to expand...

Of course, this could be used to our advantage as well. (Matt Beaton and Ronald Amidon).



MachineHead said:
IANAL, but I'm guessing the SCOTUS justices on their own (at least the really pro 2A ones) independently read up on 2A cases before they receive them. We'll probably never get an answer, but I wonder if the 2A justices discuss cases amongst themselves while golfing or whatever.
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Of course they do.
 
crazymjb said:
That's just it. This wasn't a law. There are all sorts of legal angles of attack on it. We could also end up with increasing taxes, regulation, etc on every other aspect of our lives. Also a ballooning state debt and businesses leaving the state.

Mike
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It's law in practice unless you know some shops selling AR's and AK's and you may be looking at four years or better for it to be resolved and that's being optimistic it goes our way.
We are half a billion in the state budget hole right now.
Guess what , taxes and fees are going up.
Businesses and people are leaving the state.
That and she's not even close to done attacking our 2A rights.
Don't you worry though , we have a Republican governor who will stand up for us.
 
Great to hear it. [thumbsup] Guess I should up my monthly donation rate again

May 2018... still time to influence the court of public opinion. Don't underestimate the power of that. Healy certainly used the media effectively to sway opinions. I hope that C2A and GOAL will be doing some local radio shows, newspapers, local blogs, public forums, informing representatives, etc. to drive some added underlying support in advance of the big event.
 

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