.223 Words of Advice?

[dcmdon]

Are you happy with 3 MOA at 50 yards. If so, then go cheap.

I don't shoot bolt guns to shoot at 50 yards. Even my .22 bolt guns are only shot at 50 when there is a local match at that distance.

So I tend to either spend for ammo or reload my own.

My current .223 has a chamber and a magazine that allows me to load far longer than an AR mag would allow. This gives me room to use 80gr bullets and not have them taking up valuable powder space.

If you don't reload, I've found that Hornady match at roughly $22/box is less money than Federal Gold Medal Match and just as good in the lighter weight bullets.

In the heavier weight bullets, it's better because Federal GMM isn't readily available with heavier bullets.

This is a shot of my .223 optimized for my gun vs a standard SAAMI spec .223

 

[dcmdon]

Please translate for the uninitiated...
AAC?
OTM?

AAC is a brand.

OTM is Open Tipped Match. It's a "hollow point" that isn't actually a hollow point.

The jacket for the bullet is wrapped from the back. So the base of the bullet is covered in copper, but it all comes together at the tip. With a slightly open tip.

Normal full metal jacket (FMJ) bullets are wrapped from the front. Which leaves lead exposed at the base of the bullet.

A side benefit of an OTM bullet is that the shooter is exposed to less lead. When a shot is fired, especially from a rifle with lots of powder, lots of heat, and lots of pressure, the lead at the base of the bullet is vaporized. When it exits the muzzle and hits the cold air, it recondenses and in all the swirling back eddies can land on your hand, face, or stock. Where you ingest it.

So whenever I shoot jacketed bullets, I try to shoot hollow points in my pistols or OTM in my rifles. If you reload, the price difference isn't much.

The Sierra Match King (the bullet used in Federal Gold Medal Match) is one off the most common OTM bullets.

 

[Coyote33]

Please translate for the uninitiated...
AAC?
OTM?

I looked it up:

Open Tip Match Ammo at Ammo.com: OTM Ammo Explained

Cheap Open Tip Match ammo for sale at wholesale prices. Buy your OTM ammunition in bulk here at Ammo.com. Live inventory + same day shipping!

ammo.com

The open tip match bullet (OTM) is primarily used as a target shooting ammo, hence the word “match” – but what is match ammo? There seems to be a massive debate about this particular term (OTM), because it comes across as a hollow point when it's technically not, and it can cause some confusion. The military can use it because it’s technically not a hollow point, but some hunters can’t because it is a hollow point. This is probably the most controversial term of any bullet currently in use today.

The most popular open tip match bullets you’ll come across are the Sierra MatchKing line, which have been in use for decades.

 

[Dominator11]

I doubt it was luck. In my group, we've bought probably 15-20 cases of it over the past year or so. Obviously we haven't shot all 20,000rds, but taking a box at random from any of the cases has yielded pretty consistent results.

How are the prices on ammo your grabbing?

 

[dcmdon]

The military can use it primarily because while The Hague Convention of 1899 banned hollow point bullets in warfare, the US was not a signatory to that document. So we never agreed not to use them.

In fact, Winchester developed the M1153 jacketed hollow point (JHP) round for the M9 program.

 

[PappyM3]

I looked it up:

Open Tip Match Ammo at Ammo.com: OTM Ammo Explained

Cheap Open Tip Match ammo for sale at wholesale prices. Buy your OTM ammunition in bulk here at Ammo.com. Live inventory + same day shipping!

ammo.com

That article is wholely incorrect on what the military can use. We are not signatories of The Hague Convention declaration that bans expanding bullets. In fact, some units run TSX bullets they expand immensely.

Also mentioned in the link, it implies that hollow points are banned for hunting in some states. I’m not aware of any state that bans hollow points for hunting. Only NJ that bans hollow points in general.

 

[Coyote33]

When a shot is fired, especially from a rifle with lots of powder, lots of heat, and lots of pressure, the lead at the base of the bullet is vaporized. When it exits the muzzle and hits the cold air, it recondenses and in all the swirling back eddies can land on your hand, face, or stock. Where you ingest it.

Just don't bring potato chips or ice cream cones to the range.

 

[paul73]

Twist rate 1:7. CZ 600 Trail, cz website says 5.56 is ok.
55 gr?

i guess you do not reload, so buy any match grade ammo in 77gr+ and enjoy it.
cz is a great gun, good barrel and decent trigger all in one package.

if you will start to reload, come again, it will be way more to talk about. for stock ammo - you were already given what weight works good for this twist rate, 77+ will do it, shoot it and enjoy.
it should work fine up to 600 yds, and may be even further if you lucked out with a barrel.

ps. when you will see how much better match grade ammo behaves, and how much it costs, you will want to reload.

 

[Road_Clam]

Twist rate 1:7. CZ 600 Trail, cz website says 5.56 is ok.
55 gr?

What "could" happen when shooting lighter bullets in a fast twist barrel is called "over stabilization". It's when the bullet tip "yaws" off the center line of flight. A sign of over stabilization is bullet impact keyholing through your paper target. More of an issue as you shoot longer 300+ yd distances. I have a 20" 1-8 twist WOA match barrel in my service rifle and It shoots my 55gr handloads good. Good enough for practicing high power type courses of fire at 100 yds. I went with a 1-8 twist as opposed to a 1-7 just so I could have the consistent option of shooting 55's. Do some testing shooting 55's out to 200 yds if possible and see how the barrel shoots.

 

[PatMcD]

How are the prices on ammo your grabbing?

I get it when it goes on sale for $9.99/20.


And to others, match bullets are referred to as HPBT. Hollow Point Boat Tail. But they are hollow point in name only. They do not perform like a hunting/self defense hollow point does. HPBT are essentially the same as full jacketed bullets in their effect on a live target.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

Try a few different boxes of stuff. I've had a few Savage .223's over the years. One was 1:7. Most were 1:9. I shot some 55gr, but since I was "only" shooting a box (or two) at a time, I tried
69gr or 75gr from different makers. Most of those were fine, and brand didn't seem to make a huge difference. I really LOVED the Winchester "Deer Season" when it was sold by Walmart, and was $19.99 a box. Very accurate. YMMV.

 

[MC56]

Bad as ever

Still buyin it by the case

Ran the AAC 77gr out to 400yds. Zero group was about 1moa-ish, I didn't measure it. Had no issues hitting steel with a 1-6 lpvo. Targets were in the 2-4 MOA range depending on distance.

That said, here's the chrono data.


I still think its great mid-range gas gun food. It ran very well, no malfunctions or issues. I'm gonna keep buying it too.

 

[lukewarm_fuzz]

Ran the AAC 77gr out to 400yds. Zero group was about 1moa-ish, I didn't measure it. Had no issues hitting steel with a 1-6 lpvo. Targets were in the 2-4 MOA range depending on distance.

That said, here's the chrono data.
View attachment 955906

I still think it’s great mid-range gas gun food. It ran very well, no malfunctions or issues. I'm gonna keep buying it too.

Yeah the people who think it’s consistent lot-to-lot don’t own a chronograph or have a small sample size. Still bangs pretty good!

 

[PatMcD]

A 27fps deviation in velocity at 300 yds (likely the longest distance I would personally use the AAC 77 ammo) is probably an inch, maybe an inch and a half. I sure as hell can't hold that, from position.
I have a chrono. Never use it. I don't need it to tell me if a load will clean a target: my evidence is the actual target, and the scores I shot.
I don't think anybody, especially me, has made any claims that this will be Benchrest-competition quality ammo.
What it is, is pretty reliably solid MOA target ammo at a good price.

 

[MC56]

A 27fps deviation in velocity at 300 yds (likely the longest distance I would personally use the AAC 77 ammo) is probably an inch, maybe an inch and a half. I sure as hell can't hold that, from position.
I have a chrono. Never use it. I don't need it to tell me if a load will clean a target: my evidence is the actual target, and the scores I shot.
I don't think anybody, especially me, has made any claims that this will be Benchrest-competition quality ammo.
What it is, is pretty reliably solid MOA target ammo at a good price.

Where did I say I was looking for benchrest accuracy? I said it's good mid-range gas gun ammo and I'm going to buy more, which it sounds like you agree with. I was hoping for an ES a bit lower that 82fps, but it still shoots good and is plenty capable of hitting IPSC sized targets out to 5-600 yds IMO. Good stuff for the price for sure.

 

[lukewarm_fuzz]

A 27fps deviation in velocity at 300 yds (likely the longest distance I would personally use the AAC 77 ammo) is probably an inch, maybe an inch and a half. I sure as hell can't hold that, from position.
I have a chrono. Never use it. I don't need it to tell me if a load will clean a target: my evidence is the actual target, and the scores I shot.
I don't think anybody, especially me, has made any claims that this will be Benchrest-competition quality ammo.
What it is, is pretty reliably solid MOA target ammo at a good price.

Fair enough, short ranges I suppose it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference. I was just speaking in terms of “consistency” which was the original point. An extreme spread of 80+fps in 9 rounds from the same box is the actual definition of inconsistent

 

[PatMcD]

Where did I say I was looking for benchrest accuracy? I said it's good mid-range gas gun ammo and I'm going to buy more, which it sounds like you agree with. I was hoping for an ES a bit lower that 82fps, but it still shoots good and is plenty capable of hitting IPSC sized targets out to 5-600 yds IMO. Good stuff for the price for sure.

That wasn't aimed at you. Lukewarm fuzz and I have been having a good-natured debate on the consistency of this ammo.
Obviously, a 0.00 SD would be optimal, but I'm just saying the perceived "inconsistency" is likely to not really matter in real-world applications.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

This thread has gotten out of hand.

OP, tell us more about your odd ball rifle, do you like it? How is the cheek weld? You have me thinking hard about a 600 Trail in 7.62x39, I think it would be a sweet deer rifle so long as it is comfortable to actually shoot.

And just to cause ass ache in this thread, I would shoot lots of shit grade AK ammo and post pictures of my groups.

 

[MC56]

This thread has gotten out of hand.

we're discussing affordable 77gr ammo in a thread titled ".223 words of advice"... seems appropriate.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

we're discussing affordable 77gr ammo in a thread titled ".223 words of advice"... seems appropriate.

Yup, and I am interested the rifle the OP was asking about.

 

[MaxStravinsky]

I took the rifle to the range today for the first time. I don't have a bipod yet, so I was pretty much just testing a few flavors of ammo and 3 brands of magazines for reliability.
All ammo and magazines ran flawlesly.

The mag brands were: CZ, HERA and PMAG.
The ammo was:
*Federal American Eagle 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket
$8.83
*Federal Tactical TRU 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Sierra GameKing Hollow Point
$12.84
*Federal American Eagle Varmint and Predator 223 Remington Ammo 50 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
$13.34
*Hornady Critical Defense 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Flex Tip Expanding
$22.07

The previous owner had put a small strip of soft foam on the cheek rest, I'd say it improved the experience
Recoil wasn't bad at all, it was louder than I expected.
Everything on the gun worked as expected, nothing wobbly and no unexpected surprises.
Next week I'll get a bipod and then hopefully get it sighted in for my eyes. Maybe then I'll post some target shots. I was shooting high and left today.

Next ammo I plan to try is:
*Winchester fmj 55gr
*Apex 55gr & 62gr
*Prvi Partizan 69gr boat tail

I think it'll be a fun gun for me, I'm happy with it.

I'm not sure what a good price is for a case of fmj, but I'm on the lookout for some.
Thanks for all the info.

 

[Caveman]

This is what I’ve been buying at 428-439 a case for 55gr. PMC X-Tac 5.56x45mm NATO Ammo 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket

 

[AmeriKHAN]

The only 5.56/.223 I stay away from is Magtech.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

OP, tell us more about your odd ball rifle, do you like it? How is the cheek weld? You have me thinking hard about a 600 Trail in 7.62x39, I think it would be a sweet deer rifle so long as it is comfortable to actually shoot.

For hunting, you probably won't like the CZ. If it's like the others, the mag/magwell sticks down so it doesn't carry well.

*Prvi Partizan 69gr boat tail

69gr should do well in your 1:7 twist. I've found Prvi to be kind of dirty, but it works.

 

[G4Y4HK]

This thread has gotten out of hand.

OP, tell us more about your odd ball rifle, do you like it? How is the cheek weld? You have me thinking hard about a 600 Trail in 7.62x39, I think it would be a sweet deer rifle so long as it is comfortable to actually shoot.

And just to cause ass ache in this thread, I would shoot lots of shit grade AK ammo and post pictures of my groups.

Does the 600 Trail have the same set trigger as their CZ 527? What a sweet little mini bolt action with that 1.5 lb trigger.

 

[Dominator11]

Has anyone tried the cheap scorpio svt .223 ammo?

 

[MaxStravinsky]

I'm not familiar with the CZ 527, but my new rifle (600 Trail) has a really nice, light trigger.

 

[PappyM3]

For more discussion, my go-to for an accurate cartridge is 69gr SMK. I like my handloads, but Federal Gold Medal Match is also usually good to go.

It seems like every AR I have shoots it well. Obviously match barrels better then cheapo barrels, but all shoot it well respectively to other loads in the particular barrels.

 

[paul73]

A 27fps deviation in velocity at 300 yds (likely the longest distance I would personally use the AAC 77 ammo) is probably an inch, maybe an inch and a half. I sure as hell can't hold that, from position.
I have a chrono. Never use it. I don't need it to tell me if a load will clean a target: my evidence is the actual target, and the scores I shot.
I don't think anybody, especially me, has made any claims that this will be Benchrest-competition quality ammo.
What it is, is pretty reliably solid MOA target ammo at a good price.

it is fine devistion for stock ammo.
my less than perfect 75gr reloads that i load as a batch into a mixed brass with minimal prep - just looked - shows me 2635fps, 52 max spread, 17.7 SD.
and it flies perfectly fine to 300. for further down, sure, it will spread a bit wide, but it is not an intent for a batch loaded ammo.

 

[paul73]

For more discussion, my go-to for an accurate cartridge is 69gr SMK. I like my handloads, but Federal Gold Medal Match is also usually good to go.

It seems like every AR I have shoots it well. Obviously match barrels better then cheapo barrels, but all shoot it well respectively to other loads in the particular barrels.

for my barrels so far, i can tell 70gr nosler rdf is a better grouping round than 69smk, but they are close indeed. for 75gr i used hornadys, and it is also quite damn accurate.