80 lowers

Mboro88 · May 30, 2017

I've poked around a bit on the subject and got some answers but I'd rather open it up a bit to a larger audience. Is there any new literature about 80s in mass. To make a long story short I plan on leaving it in nh. Never will it see MA except upon delivery to my residence here. Reason I'm having it sent here is because the family cabin has no mailbox and doesn't really get mail. Its on a private dirt road. Paradise.....

Is there anything to be concerned about? Any advice? Feel free to pm

pastera · May 30, 2017

A lower receiver is not a firearm and an 80% isn't even a receiver.
Why not just buy a lower in NH?

MisterHappy · May 30, 2017

Your town's post office should be able to accept a General Delivery shipment, and you pick it up.

http://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/2010/pb22280/html/updt_002.htm

Mountain · May 30, 2017

As pastera mentions, an 80% is only a chunk of metal. In case you have trouble getting a vendor to ship an 80% to Mass, you have the wrong vendor.

Rob Boudrie · May 30, 2017

Remember, all the AG has to do to get a customer list is contact a seller and say "cough it up or hire an attorney to defend your firm in a MA courtroom".

pastera · May 30, 2017

Rob Boudrie said:
Remember, all the AG has to do to get a customer list is contact a seller and say "cough it up or hire an attorney to defend your firm in a MA courtroom".

Which is why I say buy in person in NH
I haven't seen any good deals on 80% lowers lately - most are the same price or more than a cheap forged receiver

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7.62x39 · May 30, 2017

There is no problem having an 80% lower sent to MA. it is not a controlled part. In it's present state it's nothing more than a door stop.

7.62x39 · May 30, 2017

pastera said:
I haven't seen any good deals on 80% lowers lately - most are the same price or more than a cheap forged receiver

It was never about trying to save money, 80s have always been as much as or more expensive than 100% receivers. Right now you can get forged mil-spec 80% lowers for around $50

Odyssey Arms · May 30, 2017

80% lowers are just paperweights. I've already sold a couple dozen of em.

https://www.armslist.com/posts/6685752/massachusetts-handguns-for-sale--80--forged-lowers

Mboro88 · May 31, 2017

pastera said:
A lower receiver is not a firearm and an 80% isn't even a receiver.
Why not just buy a lower in NH?

I'm under the impression that you cannot purchase a non ma compliant firearm in another state. If it isn't compliant in ma, You cannot buy in another state.

Fixxah · May 31, 2017

It isn't a firearm.

kalash · May 31, 2017

Mboro88 said:
I'm under the impression that you cannot purchase a non ma compliant firearm in another state. If it isn't compliant in ma, You cannot buy in another state.

But you're not purchasing a firearm...

Mboro88 · May 31, 2017

kalash said:
But you're not purchasing a firearm...

Yes... If it is an 80 percent. But a completed lower is a firearm. I suppose I can find a shop with 80s

pastera · May 31, 2017

Mboro88 said:
Yes... If it is an 80 percent. But a completed lower is a firearm. I suppose I can find a shop with 80s

Are you listed as an owner of the family cabin? Or are any of the utilities in your name?

If so, use those documents to show residence in NH and just buy what you want in NH.

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MachineHead · May 31, 2017

Mboro88 said:
Yes... If it is an 80 percent. But a completed lower is a firearm. I suppose I can find a shop with 80s

According to the MGL, a completed lower is not a firearm because it cannot fire a shot.

Maura says it is, but MGL says it is not.

'Firearm'', a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

Ch 140 S 121.

milktree · May 31, 2017

pastera said:
A lower receiver is not a firearm and an 80% isn't even a receiver.
Why not just buy a lower in NH?

If you mean a complete lower, a 100% lower (ready for parts, no machining necessary) is not a "Firearm, Rifle, or Shotgun" according to Mass. law, but it *is* a Firearm according to Federal law and subject to those restrictions.

Federal law has a special category for stripped, 100% AR lowers[1] which disallows the sale across state lines, because an AR lower could be a rifle or a handgun depending on how it's eventually built. A NH dealer can sell a rifle or shotgun to a MA resident, or the receiver of either (because they're not ever handguns) and can sell a full AR (because it's already a rifle), but a stripped, undesignated lower is its own special category which a MA resident can't buy in NH.

[1] I forget the term, "other" maybe? (but not "any other weapon" which is stuff like pen guns and stuff I think) It's *not* a handgun or a rifle or shotgun.

Rob Boudrie · May 31, 2017

Mboro88 said:
Yes... If it is an 80 percent. But a completed lower is a firearm. I suppose I can find a shop with 80s

A completed lower is a firearm under federal law.

It is not a firearm under state law.

Federal law has a special category for stripped, 100% AR lowers[1] which disallows the sale across state lines, because an AR lower could be a rifle or a handgun depending on how it's eventually built.

I think you mean "ATF policy". I don't think there was any underlying federal law change when the 3rd category (frame) was added to the 4473.

pastera · May 31, 2017

milktree said:
If you mean a complete lower, a 100% lower (ready for parts, no machining necessary) is not a "Firearm, Rifle, or Shotgun" according to Mass. law, but it *is* a Firearm according to Federal law and subject to those restrictions.

Federal law has a special category for stripped, 100% AR lowers[1] which disallows the sale across state lines, because an AR lower could be a rifle or a handgun depending on how it's eventually built. A NH dealer can sell a rifle or shotgun to a MA resident, or the receiver of either (because they're not ever handguns) and can sell a full AR (because it's already a rifle), but a stripped, undesignated lower is its own special category which a MA resident can't buy in NH.

[1] I forget the term, "other" maybe? (but not "any other weapon" which is stuff like pen guns and stuff I think) It's *not* a handgun or a rifle or shotgun.

But the real question is if you have an equity stake in the family cabin - if you do, then all of this is moot and you can simply buy anything you desire in NH.

My assertion about lowers was based on MGL definitions as you asked about buying an 80% because of Mass laws.

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milktree · Jun 1, 2017

Rob Boudrie said:
A completed lower is a firearm under federal law.

It is not a firearm under state law.

I think you mean "ATF policy". I don't think there was any underlying federal law change when the 3rd category (frame) was added to the 4473.

Crap. Yes, you're correct. I conflated the two.

pastera said:
But the real question is if you have an equity stake in the family cabin - if you do, then all of this is moot and you can simply buy anything you desire in NH.

My assertion about lowers was based on MGL definitions as you asked about buying an 80% because of Mass laws.

Well, *someone* asked.

Shawnyc · Jun 1, 2017

milktree said:
A NH dealer can sell a rifle or shotgun to a MA resident, or the receiver of either (because they're not ever handguns) and can sell a full AR (because it's already a rifle

Is this true?

browncoat · Jun 1, 2017

Shawnyc said:
Is this true?

True except for the receiver part. The GCA exception for out of state sales specifically applies only to shotguns abs rifles, not to receivers of any kind or other firearms (handguns, nfa)

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Mboro88 · Jun 1, 2017

Educational thread. Thank you

milktree · Jun 1, 2017

Shawnyc said:
Is this true?

I thought it was, but... now I'm not so sure.

My understanding (which I can't quote sources for) was that receivers were fine as long as they're not ambiguous to their use. e.g. an AR lower is "bad" because it could be a handgun", a 1911 lower is disallowed because it's a handgun, but a Remington 700 receiver is OK because it's a rifle. Similarly, an AR lower that has been transferred as a rifle (been through a dealer's bound book as one) is also OK. (but you'll never get a dealer to transfer it)

'course, I can't defend any of the above with sources....

Trust what Rob Boudrie says over what I say.

Rob Boudrie · Jun 2, 2017

milktree said:
I thought it was, but... now I'm not so sure.

My understanding (which I can't quote sources for) was that receivers were fine as long as they're not ambiguous to their use. e.g. an AR lower is "bad" because it could be a handgun", a 1911 lower is disallowed because it's a handgun, but a Remington 700 receiver is OK because it's a rifle. Similarly, an AR lower that has been transferred as a rifle (been through a dealer's bound book as one) is also OK. (but you'll never get a dealer to transfer it)

'course, I can't defend any of the above with sources....

Trust what Rob Boudrie says over what I say.

In the old days, 4473s has a check box for "Handgun" or "Long gun". When that was the case, it was up to the FFL dealer to determine if it was a handgun or long gun frame, and treat the frame transfer just like transfer of the checked gun type.

Current 4473s have "Handgun", "Long Gun", and "Frame or receiver". The current ATF position is that a frame is not a long gun and therefore cannot be purchased by an out of state resident. No need to take my word, just look carefully at the answer to question #16 on the instructions attached to and part of the 4473:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

Mboro88 · Jun 2, 2017

I ended up buying some 80 lowers, once I get them ill finish them and keep them up north....I appreciate the info and advice.

80 lowers

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