A woman just graduated the US Army’s sniper school for the first time ever

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I don't know how executing POWs should be a measure of anything.

this is spot on though:

Funny how you point out atrocities by Germans towards enemy combatants as "spot on" but when faced with atrocities perpetrated by Soviets, especially women:

I don't know how executing POWs should be a measure of anything.

I suppose soviet atrocities such as raping and killing of over 2 million German underage girls and women "is a measure of anything".
Perhaps slave labor of 4+ million(with less than 1 million being POW's) German men and women following WW2 with over 1.3 million of those dying in the horrible conditions such as uranium mines is also not "a measure of anything".

Fact is, the Soviet regime and Soviet people's hate and ease with which they perpetrated atrocities on enemy people are on par with the German people and the Nazi regime. We're not talking numbers. We are talking about types of actions perpetrated en'large. Yet, only Germany and its people have chosen to deal with the evil of its deeds and make effort to make mends.

 

[CRSIII]

I think I saw 3 pathfinders over my years. I saw 1 Presidents Hundred and 1 scuba bubble so I'd consider pathfinder to be pretty rare also...

Are you sure you’ve only seen one?

 

[Fishfinder]

 

[Dench]

Are you sure you’ve only seen one?

Yes they are ultra rare in the regular army

 

[CRSIII]

Yes they are ultra rare in the regular army

Oh. Shows you what I know. I thought it was a Marine honor.

 

[Dench]

Oh. Shows you what I know. I thought it was a Marine honor.

President's Hundred tab - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AHM]

I saw an interview with the British sniper who made the longest shot and he basically said the same thing. He said that it's really exciting when you are on the rifle and have to take a crap, the 2nd guy just holds a box next to your ass and he said that you just piss in your pants. He would come back with all sorts of weird rashes.

You can do that in the comfort of your own nation.

Back in the day, the NY State Police dive team sent some guys
to staff a display at the Schoharie County Cobleskill Sunshine Fair.

Their job included stuff like searching for drowning victims,
and recovering criminals' guns that were lost in Tragic Inlet Accidents.

They said that they were frequently blind hand-searches
on deep mud bottoms in zero-visibility conditions.

And they said that New York Harbor was so contaminated
with sewage and sewage by-products that
every pre-existing minor scratch they might have on their bodies
upon submerging became open running sores after they got out of the water.

It depends on which of the 57 states you are in.

Spoiler: Not counting the mezzanine

 

[SFC13557]

I was offered none. Zero.

Sure, I wasn't exactly a trail blazer and I was definitely a high up in the E4 mafia. That said, I was maxing PT tests and I could shoot reasonably well most days by army standards.

Schools just weren't a thing. At the time, the Cape was running Air Assault. Great! we all thought. Wrong. My entire battalion got about 5 slots. I believe 3 washed out (and they were oddball choices and not the MOS of the actual battalion).

As a combat engineer, you figure sapper school would be a nice thing to go to. Zero people, and I mean zero people went to sapper school during my 6 years. We had ONE person who was prior service who went to sapper school in the entire battalion.

Fast forward to the mid 2010's, 10-15 years later and by the looks of people in now sapper school is definitely an option. as is airassualt, etc. All that shit is now a thing. I know a guy who recently went to sapper school whose not even f***ing MOS Q'd as a combat engineer.

it just wasn't when I was in. we had zero slots, and in the ultra rare cases where a slot did pop up, it was turned into a kickback or a favor.

I got Air Assault and barely passed, FT. McCoy in 1992 I believe in Army Reserve. No Ranger or Airborne but later in NG we sent a Soldier to the NG sniper school and he passed. Guard school is different from Active duty one at Benning. When I was in 104th INF. we used to get slots at Mountain Warfare School in Jericho VT.

 

[MGnoob]

I saw an interview with the British sniper who made the longest shot and he basically said the same thing. He said that it's really exciting when you are on the rifle and have to take a crap, the 2nd guy just holds a box next to your ass and he said that you just piss in your pants. He would come back with all sorts of weird rashes.

That sounds awful

 

[Cap'n Mike]

Learn how to blow shit up better school for engineers. Also, congrats to her but if im reading that article correctly, she was offered sniper school coming right out of basic training? Absolute bullshit if that's what theyre implying. Myself and many others also qualified expert and I was the squad designated marksmen during two tours. One with a M24 and the other having both an M14ebr and a M110 at my disposal. Not once was I ever offered sniper school in ten years of service. No one is going to sniper school right out of OSUT and not without combat experience. The Guard isnt going to waste that state money unless this is some woke gi jane bullshit.

I read somewhere that National Guard units are sending Soldiers straight from OSUT to Ranger School and are getting much higher pass rates then sending soldiers who have been in for a while. Maybe they are doing the same with Sniper School.

 

[Picton]

When I was in 104th INF. we used to get slots at Mountain Warfare School in Jericho VT.

I'd have loved that school. Mountain Phase at Ranger school was actually fun, I thought.

 

[Waher]

I read somewhere that National Guard units are sending Soldiers straight from OSUT to Ranger School and are getting much higher pass rates then sending soldiers who have been in for a while. Maybe they are doing the same with Sniper School.

I'm wondering if that has to do with the age of candidates or a lack of experience doing regular infantry stuff so that candidates don't have learned habits/complacency which handicap them when it comes to doing things the "Ranger way".

 

[FPrice]

That is a butt crack. Looks better on women

@dgrantdoherty knows butt cracks.

 

[Marty McFly]

@dgrantdoherty knows butt cracks.

You talking about our date last Saturday?

 

[Hustler One]

I read somewhere that National Guard units are sending Soldiers straight from OSUT to Ranger School and are getting much higher pass rates then sending soldiers who have been in for a while. Maybe they are doing the same with Sniper School.

My military knowledge of policies had an ETS date of 2015 so maybe theyre desperate to get people tabbed up. Even back in that timeframe a guard soldier can get an 11x or 18x contract so, yes, that is a fact and i too have heard the success rate is much higher for guard soldiers specifically. In fact, the guard success rate is much higher than active duty. 19th and 20th are SF guard units and is where the guard soldiers end up. Currently serving guard members can request a transfer to those units where they will kick your ass all over the place to make sure you are ready to attend SFAS. Sniper school isnt a "give me" school like airborne and air assault that they hand out like candy after basic training if you can score a 240 or higher PT test. Ive never heard of anyone male or female being offered sniper school right after osut at Benning. Guard units only have one or two slots available in the whole state to send someone to sniper school which is why I believe this is just some gi jane non sense. Like i said, i was never offered it once and I inquired a few times. Only when I was about to ETS is when i was offered the really cool schools.

 

[FPrice]

You talking about our date last Saturday?

You and your g-string.

 

[Marty McFly]

You and your g-string.

You requested it fyi

 

[crazymjb]

I read somewhere that National Guard units are sending Soldiers straight from OSUT to Ranger School and are getting much higher pass rates then sending soldiers who have been in for a while. Maybe they are doing the same with Sniper School.

Doubtful as Sniper School seats are usually reserved for the guys in the platoon.

As to Ranger, I have heard of Guard units sending kids from OSUT if they make honor grad or something.

I think I’d do much better in a school like that straight from OSUT vs years later, especially as a Guardsman. I remember a couple times in more recent school experiences thinking “what the f*** am I doing,” even fleetingly, in a way I never did when I was in infantry school, for example. When you’re deep in the koolaid it’s mentally much easier to just keep going… vs doing so after putting down roots, having taken time to readjust to being home, having a normal life, etc.

Like if Ranger, air assault, etc are just part of your pipeline, so be it. Driving my adult self who generally is treated as an adult in the Army to go get my shit pushed in for weeks or months at a time is less appealing now.

 

[KBCraig]

You mean sniper movies aren't realistic?

I've seen the documentary, written by Tom Clancy.


View: https://youtu.be/W4xO0k9LcIU

 

[KBCraig]

Yes they are ultra rare in the regular army

(Straying from Sniper school for a bit.)

I saw a number of Pathfinder badges in the '80s.

Pathfinder was both a school that earned a badge, and a role within a unit (just like someone can wear a Ranger scroll without being a Ranger School graduate).

One of my college roommates was a gung-ho infantryman. 6'2", 145 pounds, like a Q-tip with size 12 feet. He looked like a recruiting poster for the Old Guard.

He enlisted as an 11B in USAR at 17 with parental permission, went to Basic and AIT the summer before his Senior year of high school, and as a college freshman he went straight into the ROTC Advanced Program under the Early Commissioning Program. He had completed Airborne School between high school and college, then Air Assault school between his freshman and sophomore years (same summer as ROTC Advance Camp).

We were commissioned together 17 May 1985. I was the only non-scholarship student in our class who got active duty.

He had two more years until graduation, and could not get an active duty slot as a lieutenant in 1987. He kept his reserve commission, and went active duty as an E-4. He was a Pathfinder with the 101st Airborne, and died after a double chute failure during a low altitude night jump.

So anyhoo... yes, there are (were) real Pathfinders, at least back in the day.

2LT Brendan Shawn Paxton (1964-1989) - Find a...

Died during a parachute training jump. 17th Cav, 101st Airborne Pathfinder Military Information: SPC, US ARMY

www.findagrave.com

 

[GaryO]

@dgrantdoherty knows butt cracks.

Doesn't she know anything? She should be in a flat black latex suit

 

[cams]

Pathfinder was both a school that earned a badge, and a role within a unit ** (just like someone can wear a Ranger scroll without being a Ranger School graduate).

Just wanted to tweak the above for accuracy for those following along with little or no knowledge of this topic.

** “just like someone can wear a Ranger Tab who has never served in The Ranger Regiment.”

The Scroll is the 75th RR unit patch, if someone is wearing a Scroll on either shoulder (1st/2d/3rd/RSTB or RHQ’s) that person has completed all requirements and has been selected into service in the 75th as a Ranger.

Ranger School itself is a TRADOC school and has no relation to the Ranger Regiment, so someone can earn their Ranger Tab, a highly desirable school to have for leadership positions and lifers, and then return to their non-Ranger unit and a lot of times even their non-infantry unit, being a cook/truck driver/medic etc etc.

This is where the old mantra was born out of confusion between Scroll and Tab;

“The Tab is a school. The Scroll is a way of life.”
and
“I’d take a PFC with a Right Shoulder Scroll over a SSG with a Tab any day.”

Ranger Regiment itself has to opt in for slots to Ranger School as those openings are dispersed equally amongst other units in the Army and many times other services as well. Strange that Regiment wouldn’t get as many slots as they wanted, but again, there is no relation between the two, except the word ‘Ranger’ in the schools title from back around 1952, which many have argued for decades should be changed. One is SOCOM and one is TRADOC. At any given time I’d say that the Regiment is only about 50/50 tabbed/non tabbed, yet exclusively 100% Rangers.

Condolences on the loss of your friend as well, have also lost friends from bad jumps.

 

[SFC13557]

"As to Ranger, I have heard of Guard units sending kids from OSUT if they make honor grad or something."
Our 1LT's and 2LT's. Platoon Leaders were offered Ranger school after IOBC but not right after graduation. Smartest thing would have them rotate right over to Ranger school after IOBC.
Mountain Warfare had a winter and summer phase, 2 weeks each at Camp Ethan Allen. Sometimes it was an alternative to annual AT. I ran into a few Senior NCO's with Pathfinder badges but they were Active Duty at NCOES schools. I was attending ANCOS at Camp Ethan Allen and pulled a hamstring after week 1 on an Indian run, had to drop out and repeat whole course a year later at Camp Smith in MN.

 

[PatMcD]

Oh. Shows you what I know. I thought it was a Marine honor.

Presidents Hundred is not a school, but an achievement that can only be earned on 1 day of the year out at Camp Perry during the National Matches (in the P100 Match, oddly enough). It is open to all service branches AND civilians. Usually there are 1000+ shooters that day, and you need to place in the top 100. Once you get it, you are not disqualified from getting it the next year, or the next. So, you are always shooting against the best shooters in the world every year (unlike the Distinguished Rifleman Badge where you are only competing against other non-Distonguished shooters). Army Marksmanship Unit, Marine Corps, Navy,, Air Force teams, All-Guard, Reserve teams, the CMP team, and all the other civilian hot-shots: they eat up half to three-quarters of the Presidents 100 slots every year.

 

[SgtHal75]

Not a shocker to me.

I knew a number of graduates of those courses (SOTIC and SAFARTIC; the reporting is unclear which she went to, and those might be obsolete anyway). Without exception, those sniper-qualified people I knew were physically slight, calm, thoughtful, and deliberate. I’m surprised it took this long for a woman to get through.

Snipers are, by and large, not bloodthirsty Rambos. They are quiet professionals.

Not the ones I know

 

[SgtHal75]

"Maj. Gen. J. Peter Hronek, the Adjutant General of Montana, said in the release that the soldier “had to volunteer several times to reach this goal, which is a demonstration of her dedication and commitment to service.” "

So... not a first (or 2nd) attempt pass in sniper school? How many times can a person go to sniper school?

As many times as it takes to lower the standard to get a female to pass..

 

[Spanz]

That ^^
Not just in reference to this, but everywhere! Every walk of life, period!

Now, to the customary

we could post her pic here, but then...


View: https://youtu.be/68sRqrZZ6wQ?t=10

 

[PatMcD]

My buddy went to Pathfinder school a year or two ago? He's AGR and was the Readiness NCO at Camp Keyes at the time. His CO poked his head into his office and said "Hey, you want to go to Pathfinder school?" Kyle immediately said "Yes sir". He washed out on the final because he F'd up his trigonometry. No do-overs because that specialty is being scaled back big-time.

As to the woman who graduated from the sniper school, I don't see the big deal. I'm surprised it took this long. I don't know anything about the fieldcraft, but as far as the shooting goes, women are every bit as good as men and usually better.

 

[Picton]

My buddy went to Pathfinder school a year or two ago? He's AGR and was the Readiness NCO at Camp Keyes at the time. His CO poked his head into his office and said "Hey, you want to go to Pathfinder school?" Kyle immediately said "Yes sir". He washed out on the final because he F'd up his trigonometry. No do-overs because that specialty is being scaled back big-time.

As to the woman who graduated from the sniper school, I don't see the big deal. I'm surprised it took this long. I don't know anything about the fieldcraft, but as far as the shooting goes, women are every bit as good as men and usually better.

They were talking about eradicating PF school even back when I was in. It's always been a tiny, tiny "community," but surveying out a drop zone is like slingloading a vehicle: plenty of people in the Army (relative to how often it's needed) can do it safely even without the badge.

 

[PatMcD]

They were talking about eradicating PF school even back when I was in. It's always been a tiny, tiny "community," but surveying out a drop zone is like slingloading a vehicle: plenty of people in the Army (relative to how often it's needed) can do it safely even without the badge.

I had heard satellite and drone technology have come so far, it made the Pathfinders mission non-essential. I guess that makes sense until the Chi-coms nullify our electronics superiority.