have an 18 year-old family friend who's wanting to get into shooting.
while he'd love to get an AR, his options are limited for a bit.
What's a good value rifle he should be considering? not the cheapest. they're willing to spend a little more for better quality, or a package deal with an appropriate ~250 yard scope
mossberg mvp or better. Savage axis any good? Is there an 'entry-level' Rem 700?
I've got a Mossberg MVP in 223 and I like it a lot. Only thing I didn't like initially was the fit of the bolt to the chamber, it was incredibly hard to operate. Oil and repetitions and it's fine now. It feels like a beefed up 10/22, easy to point, accurate enough.
TIKKA T3X. Once you shoot TIKKA, you will hate every other bolt action rifle.
As far as scopes, this is hard to answer due to the amount of scopes out there. The middle line ATHLON have really nice glass. They are not the scope you can drop from a helicopter, but for $500-600 you get very clear glass
I would stay away from REM 700, they are junk unless they have custom work done.
I've got three of them, and I shoot two of them out to 500 yards regularly. Here are base prices without scopes:
Savage Axis XP for about $300 after rebates, etc.: Got a great deal on this one years ago. Dropped in a trigger kit that runs about $15, and it now breaks nice at 2 lbs. (This is the one without the Accutrigger.) More accurate than I expected, especially for the price. Drawbacks: There are some stock options available, but the choice is limited. Bolt lift takes far more effort than the others I have. The detachable mag feeds well, but replacements are expensive.
Ruger Predator Gen 1 for $500: I also installed a trigger kit on this one for around $12. I bought it to use while learning how to reload and was amazed at the consistent sub MOA groups I could get out of it with relatively cheap components. It takes AR mags, which means replacements are cheap for 10 rounders. Once I realized it was a shooter I put it in a Magpul Hunter stock. Disadvantages: The AR mags require the bullet to jump to the chamber, so you need to work the bolt like you mean it! Going too slow results in jamming each and every time. Also the bolt was a little rough when I first got it. I've now got about 2,500 rounds through it and it's a lot smoother. If you're interested, look at the gen 2 for around $550. The feeding issues have supposedely been fixed, and the accuracy remains.
Tikka T3x Stainless $800: (There is a $75 rebate on these running until November, bringing the price of the standard blued model to around $700.) The first 3 round group I sent downrange resulted in a .25 inch group! The guy next to me tried it and shot another 3 round group at just about .35". At that point I determined a stock upgrade was in order! It now sits in an MDT Oryx chassis that takes AICS mags. The original stock was typical, and the factory mag worked great, but they are expensive. Tikka's feed incredibly well no matter how fast or slow you work the bolt, and it's possible to easily send all rounds in a magazine downrange without taking your eye off the scope. I generally shoot Sierra Matchking 77 grain loads, but I've had good luck with just about anything I've tried through it. I was experimenting with some 68 grain loads with CFE powder for the Predator and decided to run some rounds through the Tikka. This particular powder weight resulted in 5 rounds in just under .5" using CFE Powder 68 grain Hornady BTHP, and some old Federal cases on their 4th firing - so nothing at all fancy! If I could only keep one of them, this would be it.
Bergara has a few .223 models out now at around $800. I've got a B-14 HMR in 6.5C, and based on my experience with the platform, I would buy .223 version in a heartbeat if and when they finally produce one.
I think mostly a do-it-all rifle. of course only accurate rifles are interesting, he's not interested in bench rest shooting. possibly coyote hunting if hunting for anything. good question
The OP said he has an 18 year old who wants to get into shooting. Im guessing you missed that.
A 308 would be a terrible choice for someone new to rifle shooting. Too much recoil and noise for most people to start off with and to do well.
A .223 with a brake on it will kick like a flea, allowing the new shooter to focus on the fundamentals.
It's much easier to not develop a flinch or push than it is to fix one that's developed from shooting heavy recoiling guns too soon.
I realize that recoil will largely be dependent on the weight of the gun. But most of these reasonably priced rifles will be pretty light.
I have an A-Bolt micro that weighs 6.5 lbs with a scope. I've also got a custom shop Savage with a 24" barrel in an Element chassis with a 56mm objective scope that weighs 16 lbs. Both are chambered in .308. The A-Bolt micro is for carrying a lot and shooting a little. The Savage is for shooting a lot and carrying a little.
As much as I am a fan of 6.5 cm and 308 win, the .223 is right choice
I built a .223 trainer for a reason. I shoot more for less $$
When buying the .223 pay attention to twist rate of rifling in the barrel
1 in 12” twist will limit you to 55 grain or less bullets. 1:8 to 1:10 you can go heavier bullets and shoot longer distances. My trainer has 1:12 twist, I shoot 50 to 52 grain bullets and it’s fine to 300 yards. Probably go further but if I am at a long distance range the 6.5 is coming out
As much as I am a fan of 6.5 cm and 308 win, the .223 is right choice
I built a .223 trainer for a reason. I shoot more for less $$
When buying the .223 pay attention to twist rate of rifling in the barrel
1 in 12” twist will limit you to 55 grain or less bullets. 1:8 to 1:10 you can go heavier bullets and shoot longer distances. My trainer has 1:12 twist, I shoot 50 to 52 grain bullets and it’s fine to 300 yards. Probably go further but if I am at a long distance range the 6.5 is coming out
.223 is a working caliber, if it is not for actual varmint or other small/medium game hunting, it is questionable what good is it for, if for training alone. any .22lr good rifle would be better as a trainer - way cheaper and less loud.
but you cannot take a fox or coyote with it. and don`t want to waste more expensive .308 or 6.5cm there neither. so an every tool has its use.
.223 is a working caliber, if it is not for actual varmint or other small/medium game hunting, it is questionable what good is it for, if for training alone. any .22lr good rifle would be better as a trainer - way cheaper and less loud.
but you cannot take a fox or coyote with it. and don`t want to waste more expensive .308 or 6.5cm there neither. so an every tool has its use.
I admit my .223 trainer is built specific for one purpose, range practice for PRS positional shooting at shorter (less than 400 yards) distance, mostly (70%) 200 yards. Only zero check and load development at 100. It’s same 700 action as my match 6.5 cm. Same bolt throw same AICS magazine set up etc
Main reason I built it was I didn’t have to use my 6.5 reloading components ( which were hard to get)on short range practice I had plenty of AR components on hand and small rifle primers were and are easier to get
So you hit the nail on the head. Specific tool for specific use
The scope on a take down 10/22 mounts to the receiver and the barrel attaches and reattaches to the receiver also. This creates the possibility for inconsistencies in how it zeros.
If its just a plinker than it shouldn't be a big deal. But if you are trying to build an accurate 10/22, starting with a take down is not the way to go.
.223 is a working caliber, if it is not for actual varmint or other small/medium game hunting, it is questionable what good is it for, if for training alone. any .22lr good rifle would be better as a trainer - way cheaper and less loud.
but you cannot take a fox or coyote with it. and don`t want to waste more expensive .308 or 6.5cm there neither. so an every tool has its use.
They are both great trainers. I'm easing my way into PRS and as someone from the northeast who is typically limited to 300 yards, I've found shooting a .22 to be great fun. A .22 drifts and drops as much at 250 yards as a 6.5 CM drifts nd drops at 1200 yards.
I'm in the process of putting together a .223 trainer specially because it can go out 800 ish yards, which is again, more than I'll ever regularly get to in the Northeast. And I can reload it for about 30 cents per round.
Since these rounds are being loaded for a Zermatt arms bolt action using AICS mags, I can load the round hotter and longer than SAAMI spec (It won't fit in an AR mag) which lets me use heavy 77 gr bullets that fly better.
This gives me all the gun I need for distances I actually have access to, and nothing more.
Cheap to load for
Easy to load for with plentiful components.
Accurate
More drift than larger heavier bullets which will force me to develop wind reading skills.
One other benefit of a .22 is that if you are stuck in NH on a rainy day, while your kid is at camp, you can shoot from inside your home to pass the time.
The targets were only 60 to 90 yards away. But it was still great practice using props, moving from target to target, holding for elevation as I moved targets, and of course running a bolt gun.
Ha. CCI Quiet, through a bolt action .22 with a very large, high volume silencer. Hollywood quiet.
