Black Guy Tries To Pull Gun On Cops In Chicago: Gets Shot

[Reptile]

Footage from body cameras and other surveillance video appeared to show that a black man who was shot and killed by a Chicago police officer was armed with a gun and reached toward it as officers confronted him, officials said Sunday.

Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson said Harith Augustus, 37, had a holstered semiautomatic handgun tucked into his waistband when officers confronted him on the city's South Side. According to patrol chief Fred Waller, Augustus broke free and ran from the officers, who believed "he appeared to be reaching for a weapon" and shot him.

Chicago man shot, killed by officers appeared to have gun, police say

Great video.

Good thing they shot him.

 

[KBCraig]

How do you know when police are in the right? They release the video immediately.

 

[exo]

I'm sure there'll be riots regardless.

 

[Coz]

Just watched the video on fox news. Great judgement and reflexes by all officers involved!

 

[MAGA99]

Just another day in beautiful Chicago.

 

[Qjake17]

I'm sure there'll be riots regardless.

There were "protests" last night, because the highly uneducated always feel its best to destroy a little more of their neighborhood before all the facts are known.

 

[BUMPA01603]

Any excuse to do a little looting in a big city! Ghetto folk love a free TV

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

Yeah so this guy brought about his own death by over reacting to this situation -- of that there is no doubt.

However, I am not going to condemn him outright and praise the police without a lot more info about what this was all about and what was said. Would be helpful to see the bodycam footage and audio from the cop he was initially talking to.

What was being said between he and the officer that he was talking with before the others walked up and the female officer clumsily tries to grab him.

It has been reported that the initial contact was because they thought he was selling loose cigarettes. A witness said that is why they approached him but what he was actually doing was simply handing a few to a female relative. (Just my opinion but even if he was selling loose cigarettes the only crime in that is against the tax man)

Police admit the guy was not a felon and his only record was three minor arrests more than 10 years ago, all charges dismissed. I have not been able to find a report of what those arrest were for however.

I generally do not count on the Washington Post for anything but if true this frame grab is a very interesting addition to the story...

The body camera video shows Augustus reaching for his wallet as the officers approach. In the struggle, a card protrudes from his wallet. It appears to be a Firearm Owners Identification Card, which allows qualified people to buy weapons and ammunition, according to the Illinois State Police.

The Civilian Office of Police Accountability, a city agency that’s independent of the police department, did not return an immediate request for comment asking if they believe Augustus was attempting to show the card to police before the struggle, or if he was mistaken that the card allowed him to conceal carry.

Guy worked as a barber in the hood.
I can tell you that if I worked in a walk-in store front job where the main method of payment was cash I would want to carry a concealed firearm also.
And I would be able too unless I lived in Rahm Emanuel's Chicago.

Yeah he over reacted and he got shot, I am not going to loose sleep over his stupidity, but it might not be all that cut-n-dry either.

If you defend the 2nd Amendment you got to defend it for everybody.

Just say'n :emoji_tiger:

 

[mibro]

I'd like to see a version of that body cam video with sound which would tell a different story imo.

It looks to me that the victim was first shot before he appeared to raise his hand to his holstered weapon on his right hip. That may have been a last ditch effort to defend himself or it may have been an involuntary action in response to the first gunshot wound.

The victim was killed because he didn't have the self-control to stand and be assaulted by the police for (in his mind) no reason and because he was carrying a firearm. The LEO started shooting because he/she saw a firearm imho.

Good shoot or bad, it troubles me that Officer Mag Dump had no problem shooting a man with a holstered weapon running away from him/her. Just way too eager to end a man's life.

 

[Bonesinium]

Holster and mag pouch. FOID. No criminal record. Not known as a gang member. Has his wallet in his hand and looks to getting and ID or something when he is grabbed from behind by two people. Doesn't much seem like he's a gang banger.

 

[alpineboard]

Audio would be good, but it appears that a shot was made close in time to when the police vehicle was passing and just when the driver was going by the targeted individual, if so, and if the shooter missed , could have hit the officer driving the vehicle.

 

[Coz]

I'd like to see a version of that body cam video with sound which would tell a different story imo.

It looks to me that the victim was first shot before he appeared to raise his hand to his holstered weapon on his right hip. That may have been a last ditch effort to defend himself or it may have been an involuntary action in response to the first gunshot wound.

The victim was killed because he didn't have the self-control to stand and be assaulted by the police for (in his mind) no reason and because he was carrying a firearm. The LEO started shooting because he/she saw a firearm imho.

Good shoot or bad, it troubles me that Officer Mag Dump had no problem shooting a man with a holstered weapon running away from him/her. Just way too eager to end a man's life.

Not sure I agree with you here. Video shows man running from original cops, TOWARDS arriving cop vehicle while reaching for his gun! Good shoot from my point of view.

 

[diatribe]

Just watched the video. Looks like he was trying to show the police his LTC when they surrounded him and assaulted him from behind. Police pulled up his shirt from behind and he tried to pull it back down which is first instinct for weapon retention. Not sure why he ran but I can see why he would be scared by the way they were closed in and grabbing at him. Then he is shot in back... no evidence he was threatening anyone, just scared I bet.

Hopefully the reason for the stop and the killing are scrutinized and prosecuted. This doesn't look good.

 

[Bonesinium]

I find it interesting that the initial cop who’s talking to him doesn’t seem all that concerned and only when the other two show up do things immediately escalate...and by their doing. But I guess that is what happens when cops treat everybody like they are potential murders. If simply having a holstered gun is justification enough to kill someone everybody here that carries better tread carefully.

 

[mibro]

I find it interesting that the initial cop who’s talking to him doesn’t seem all that concerned and only when the other two show up do things immediately escalate...and by their doing. But I guess that is what happens when cops treat everybody like they are potential murders. If simply having a holstered gun is justification enough to kill someone everybody here that carries better tread carefully.

Exactly. Officer Ponytail makes an assumption about what's going on, probably a good assumption 99% of the time, and triggers this chain of events.

The fact the Police immediately released the video shows you just how low the bar is for a "good shoot." "He had a gun and he reacted to being assaulted."

 

[mibro]

Not sure I agree with you here. Video shows man running from original cops, TOWARDS arriving cop vehicle while reaching for his gun! Good shoot from my point of view.

Edit: I edited what follows because what I wrote initially was flat-out wrong.

I just watched the video again and I continue to believe the audio from that video would tell a different story.

Not everybody is capable of a calm, rational response to this kind of police aggression.

 

[Bonesinium]

His initial response to being grabbed seemed very natural and instinctual for someone who hasn't, or at least in their mind hasn't done anything to warrant being grabbed like that.

I also find it interesting that when videos are posted that show apparent police misconduct, people often claim it doesn't show the whole story, it's edited to be misleading, etc. Yet here we only get a very short clip that has clearly been edited in a way favorable for police (no sound, freeze frame on holstered gun), and here people are fine with that being enough to declare the shooting justified.

I'd be absolutely shocked to find out the edited video didn't change the context from the unedited video.

I mean, how soon do you think they first started yelling "gun" or shot him? What was being said prior to the cops grabbing him? What did the cops who grabbed him say before/during, if anything?

Based on the cops own claims, it doesn't appear he was being detained for any reason other than because they thought he was armed. Police "approached a male subject exhibiting characteristics of an armed person." He was, and so? Concealed carry is now legal. So being armed alone is not a valid justification to stop and detain someone. If it was, than imagine in all the places which allow open carry. Does that mean police can detain and disarm everyone who open carries? After all, they don't just think they are armed, they KNOW they are. If thinking someone is armed is sufficient to detain someone, certainly knowing someone is armed is more than enough.

 

[Sweeney]

^ Edited or not, I think the video shows the cops at fault for creating the situation.

 

[mibro]

Based on the cops own claims, it doesn't appear he was being detained for any reason other than because they thought he was armed. Police "approached a male subject exhibiting characteristics of an armed person."

The police acted as if they were dealing with a gang member/armed criminal. So far it looks like the victim was probably a law-abiding person who did not appreciate that treatment.

So will the police get to slide on this one? Or will anyone who matters look at that video and see a different story (ROFL, right?)

If the victim were my relative I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[kevin9]

...The LEO with the body cam has his pistol drawn from the beginning of the encounter. The sight of the victim's pistol as he staggers back against the car hood starts him shooting. I believe you can see the recoil of his pistol for one or two shots at very close range into the back of the victim before the police car pulls up and the shooter briefly lowers the muzzle of his weapon...

Not sure what you think you're seeing in the video, but it ain't what I'm seeing:

• The body cam LEO did not have their gun out from the start. At about the 00:09 mark, as Harith twists away from the female officer, you can see a a quick flash of the officer's right hand which does not appear to have a gun in it
• There is no visual evidence of shots being fired as Harith backs into parked car and the video is paused.
• The officer's gun does not appear until ~0:15 when Harith spins away from the parked car toward the street and the police SUV that has already pulled in front of him (i.e. in the line of fire). The gun is held in only 1 hand, and as it is lowered it appear the officer's trigger finger is not in the trigger guard. Clearly the body cam officer had not yet fired as Harith then starts to run toward the police SUV
• Furthermore, at the very frame where the officer's gun is lowered, in one hand, with no finger on the trigger, Harith is grabbing at his right waistband where his gun was holstered.
• At 0:16 one can clearly see Harith's hand pulling at his gun as he moves toward the SUV, while the officer begins to assume a two-handed stance. There is no evidence that officer has fired yet (ex. steady hands, no smoke)
• The first evidence of the body cam officer firing, hands jerk upward and puff of smoke against the sky, is at 0:22 after Harith clears the back of the SUV, and turns back toward the officers. Harith's right hand was grabbing at his waist the whole time from when he spun off the parked car.
• Harith's left hand then comes up to grab at his chest as he folds and falls starting at 0:23, not before

How did I see all this? Start the video then pause it. Click on the video timeline ribbon at the bottom to step through pretty much frame by frame.

All that said, audio would be better, to possibly determine exactly when shots were fired, and if other officers fired, and to determine the nature of the interaction at the start.

 

[dcmdon]

Yeah so this guy brought about his own death by over reacting to this situation -- of that there is no doubt.

However, I am not going to condemn him outright and praise the police without a lot more info about what this was all about and what was said. Would be helpful to see the bodycam footage and audio from the cop he was initially talking to.

What was being said between he and the officer that he was talking with before the others walked up and the female officer clumsily tries to grab him.

It has been reported that the initial contact was because they thought he was selling loose cigarettes. A witness said that is why they approached him but what he was actually doing was simply handing a few to a female relative. (Just my opinion but even if he was selling loose cigarettes the only crime in that is against the tax man)

Police admit the guy was not a felon and his only record was three minor arrests more than 10 years ago, all charges dismissed. I have not been able to find a report of what those arrest were for however.

I generally do not count on the Washington Post for anything but if true this frame grab is a very interesting addition to the story...



Guy worked as a barber in the hood.
I can tell you that if I worked in a walk-in store front job where the main method of payment was cash I would want to carry a concealed firearm also.
And I would be able too unless I lived in Rahm Emanuel's Chicago.

Yeah he over reacted and he got shot, I am not going to loose sleep over his stupidity, but it might not be all that cut-n-dry either.

If you defend the 2nd Amendment you got to defend it for everybody.

Just say'n :emoji_tiger:

I am inclined to think exactly like you do. However, the guy is clearly trying to draw. That eliminates all ambiguity.

Cops don't have RAS for a search - Yup
Guy may be justified in carrying - Yup
There's nothing unethical about carrying without Government permission - I'm with you.

Trying to draw on cops who have you "made", - Stupid. You get what you deserve.

 

[Bonesinium]

Cops don't have RAS for a search - Yup
Guy may be justified in carrying - Yup
There's nothing unethical about carrying without Government permission - I'm with you.

So under these circumstances you agree he has done nothing unethical.

Trying to draw on cops who have you "made", - Stupid. You get what you deserve.

Yet deserves to be killed for acting in self defense?

Quite a paradox.

 

[StevieP]

Why is he a "black man?" Why isn't he just "a man with a gun?" What does the color of his skin have to do with anything?

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

 

[Paul455]

We need to stop perpetuating the race card on everything. Don't help the crooked media.

What difference does it make if the guy was black?

How about "Man draws on police, and is killed"?

Stop the race baiting everybody.

 

[dcmdon]

So under these circumstances you agree he has done nothing unethical.



Yet deserves to be killed for acting in self defense?

Quite a paradox.

He did nothing unethical UNTIL he tried to draw on the cops.

 

[dcmdon]

Can the OP change the title from "black guy . . . " to simply "guy. . . ".

 

[mibro]

Not sure what you think you're seeing in the video, but it ain't what I'm seeing:

Just watched it again and I'm wrong, you're right. I don't know how I got it so wrong tbh.

I'd still like to hear the audio.

 

[Bonesinium]

He did nothing unethical UNTIL he tried to draw on the cops.

The cops you agreed had no reason stop and search him? The cops who grabbed him AND drew on him first?

Are you saying that even if someone has no right to search you, they do have a right to grab you and point a gun at you, yet you have no right to even attempt to draw your own?

 

[Reptile]

We need to stop perpetuating the race card on everything. Don't help the crooked media.

What difference does it make if the guy was black?

How about "Man draws on police, and is killed"?

Stop the race baiting everybody.

Why is he a "black man?" Why isn't he just "a man with a gun?" What does the color of his skin have to do with anything?

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Because if a white man was shot there would not be a riot and you would never have heard of this story.

 

[kevin9]

The cops you agreed had no reason stop and search him? The cops who grabbed him AND drew on him first?

Stop him? I'd say they had reason to talk to him, no more than that (AFAIK without audio)
Attempt to restrain him? Not sure without the audio. If he was being belligerent, then maybe so. If he was being generally cooperative, then the attempt to restrain was unreasonable. However, his attempt to flee was an ill-advised over-reaction, at best, and easily seen as threatening, given he was clearly carrying.
Draw on him first? The video did not show any officers with drawn guns before he pulled away and attempted to flee.

Are you saying that even if someone has no right to search you, they do have a right to grab you and point a gun at you, yet you have no right to even attempt to draw your own?

Given that they were clearly LEOs vs. just an old somebody on the street, and the police did not appear to point a gun at him until he attempted to flee, the situation does not quite fit the presented straw-man in key ways. Regardless that, even in a perfect world, there's right, and then there's dead right. Better to have kept it calm on the street, and killed them in court, figuratively speaking.