Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

[Rob Boudrie]

I am not aware of Carl being in favor of the ammo ban and, even if he was, he is far to smart to say such a thing.

Times like this show the benefit of having a regular go-to shop where they know you and your buying loyalty. That sort of thing can help when trying to get an appointment.

 

[MuzzleDiscipline]

I have never purchased a firearm where the priority was price. I frequently go to the shop I want to support and see stay open and healthy regardless of price. On occasion when I have purchased a firearm which seemed like a great deal and I later discovered it to be a steal I returned and slipped the owner a portion of the windfall. You would be surprised how well that works to be the future recipient of great deals and circumstances tailored for your convenience.

The lowest price is the lowest price for a reason. There is no free lunch.

 

[general disorder]

I've bought several guns from FS but its usually because they have something I want and at a good price when no-body around me has it or is not even close. The whole process for me from my location it would take a little over 3hrs from start to finish. So I wouldn't do that to save 50 or 60 dollars. But for a Beretta Vertec that no body else had that was a little different.

 

[Mark from ?]

Generally they have better prices on new guns than other shops, so people who are mainly concerned about price will gravitate there. People who don't want the deli counter take-a-number experience and are willing to pay a little bit more will go elsewhere. Different strokes for different folks.

Most times I still pay less.......I've seen better prices online and it used to be tax free, which was a total no brainer win.

But even with the taxes just imposed about 6 months ago at the online places........picking up my new gun on my lunch hour, 5 minutes away with a guaranteed no line, no waiting, still having some time to eat lunch after is a winner. Most of the time sub FS prices......

 

[Da_lucche]

Lol I did a transfer sat elsewhere, it took no more than 10 mins, no way anyone will ever get out of FS that fast. Last time I did a transfer from FS (not by choice, only option i had) it took 40 minutes with no line and no coronavirus.... lmao. The bigs are the path of most resistance, but skinflints gotta flint...

I've always figured that it was better for me to pay an extra $10-$20 for a gun at my local gun shop then it was to drive the hour to FS and back. Between gas, time driving, time stuck in line there while not even get the chance to be close to the cases, just wasn't worth it. There are 4 gun shops in my local area I'd rather see stay open. Plus Carl isn't the friend to gun owners that every thinks he is. I seem to remember he was all for the ammo ban so we couldn't get out of state ammo delivered anymore. More business for him.

Plus FS has a policy of filling out an FA10 for you and marking it as a 0.0" barrel rifle.

There is no ammo ban. He parroted the myth that it is illegal to buy ammo online and have it shipped directly to the end user here so he wouldn't lose business; he is no better than Baker or Healey.

f*** Carl and FS.

 

[Mark from ?]

Times like this show the benefit of having a regular go-to shop where they know you and your buying loyalty. That sort of thing can help when trying to get an appointment.

This....especially if your regular go to never stopped transferring during Covid.

I've always figured that it was better for me to pay an extra $10-$20 for a gun at my local gun shop then it was to drive the hour to FS and back. Between gas, time driving, time stuck in line there while not even get the chance to be close to the cases, just wasn't worth it. There are 4 gun shops in my local area I'd rather see stay open. Plus Carl isn't the friend to gun owners that every thinks he is. I seem to remember he was all for the ammo ban so we couldn't get out of state ammo delivered anymore. More business for him.

I never liked his "you can't buy new Glocks in MA misinformation" so he could basically sell used 20 year old shit Glocks overpriced to noobs.

And lets remember how his 9mm prices right before the shutdown went from normal to gouge city!

 

[Da_lucche]

I am not aware of Carl being in favor of the ammo ban and, even if he was, he is far to smart to say such a thing.

Times like this show the benefit of having a regular go-to shop where they know you and your buying loyalty. That sort of thing can help when trying to get an appointment.

He has no problem parroting the myth that it is illegal to ship ammo directly to a MA resident's home though.

 

[Jd1973]

Im probably the only guy on NES thats never been there.

I haven't been either though I have heard good things. Shooting Supply and Troy City Tactical near me serve me well.The fact that they were 2 shops behind this court case, bonus.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

He has no problem parroting the myth that it is illegal to ship ammo directly to a MA resident's home though.

Actually, according to the AG it is ... and unlike out of state vendors, the AG could easily bring fire and brimstone down on him if he were to ship. The AG's position is the sale takes place at the point of delivery, and a MA ammo dealer's license does not cover sales at customer's homes. The only thing he could have done to be more precise is word it "As the Mass Attorney General's interpretation of state law...." rather than "State law".

He has to be very careful as he is a high profile/high volume dealer which could make him a very appealing target for selective enforcement.

 

[drgrant]

Most times I still pay less.......I've seen better prices online and it used to be tax free, which was a total no brainer win.

But even with the taxes just imposed about 6 months ago at the online places........picking up my new gun on my lunch hour, 5 minutes away with a guaranteed no line, no waiting, still having some time to eat lunch after is a winner. Most of the time sub FS prices......

Many ma gun owners are pant shitters and will not buy guns online, or even drive out of their comfort zone to buy a gun. Remember we're talking about a state where there's a bunch of townie nipple heads that live in it that practically make horse braying panic noises if they have to drive west of 495....

 

[oldguy68]

The majority of gun owners are fudds and will never stand up for themselves, never mind others rights.
They are lazy and can not be bothered wasting their gas unless it's to save a buck or two.

My most memorable day at a gun shop was when a 65 year old or so fudd asked if AR-15's were in stock after the 7/20 reinterpretation bs occurred.
I laughed in his face and said you had your whole life to get one and now you want one?
I was laughing all the way out the front door!

All you have to do is look at the numbers.
Who can't afford $25.00 to join one of a number of organizations that stand up for every firearm owners rights.
Yet, our numbers are so low in some organization, it's a miracle that they even exist with the membership money they bring in.

I love talking with all the people bragging about owning this or that and asking what organizations they belong to?
I don't need them is the most often response.
But they are the first to bitch about some law being passed.

Best defense, is a strong offense.
Someone said that it's a lot harder to go against a law after it has passed as opposed to before.

 

[Lank]

Sooo court case discussions?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Actually, according to the AG it is ... and unlike out of state vendors, the AG could easily bring fire and brimstone down on him if he were to ship. The AG's position is the sale takes place at the point of delivery, and a MA ammo dealer's license does not cover sales at customer's homes. The only thing he could have done to be more precise is word it "As the Mass Attorney General's interpretation of state law...." rather than "State law".

He has to be very careful as he is a high profile/high volume dealer which could make him a very appealing target for selective enforcement.

Rob, isn't it in the law (S. 122 is my guess) for dealer's licensing as an ammo dealer in MA?

 

[EJFudd]

Sooo court case discussions?

Yeah, I know. I think there's an FSGuns bashing thread somewhere else. I don't think we need another one here.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Leominster lawyer leads effort to reverse COVID-19 gun shop closures

Second Amendment advocates notched a win last week in their battle with the state to keep gun shops and shooting ranges open during the COVID-19 pandemic, despite state officials deeming them non-ess…

www.telegram.com

I didn't listen to all of it but when I did Jensen did all of the heavy lifting.

 

[doxdsgn]

PJ Media - Unfair restrictions

From the link above:

Leary (Cape Gun Works, Hyannis) told PJ Media, “We can’t go on like this for very long. We went from 100 to 200 transactions a day to 30. It’s painful.” Other retailers like Home Depot or Walmart are allowed many more people than that per hour and Leary doesn’t understand why they can’t operate under the same rules as other essential businesses. “It feels like this is about control now,” he said.

 

[rivet_42]

Possibly related: Judge rules that strip clubs are businesses and cannot be excluded from collecting relief funds.

“Simply put, Congress did not pick winners and losers in the PPP,” [U.S. District Judge Matthew] Leitman ruled. "Instead, through the PPP, Congress provided temporary paycheck support to all Americans."

Bottom line: you cannot block businesses from collecting government pandemic relief simply because you have a moral objection to the (otherwise legal) business they're in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Possibly related: Judge rules that strip clubs are businesses and cannot be excluded from collecting relief funds.



Bottom line: you cannot block businesses from collecting government pandemic relief simply because you have a moral objection to the (otherwise legal) business they're in.

Unless it involves gunzzz.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Unless it involves gunzzz.

MA has given strip club and gun stores equal treatment.

Strip clubs have another avenue - one can credibly argue that stripping is an art form, therefore a form of speech, and is entitled to protection as a right of the first class.

 

[Dennis in MA]

He has no problem parroting the myth that it is illegal to ship ammo directly to a MA resident's home though.

View attachment 356739

Hmmm. I'm not disagreeing, but is there a difference between in-state and out-of-state sales??? Maybe in-state can't ship? I don't know but I wouldn't put it past mASSachusetts. Where is Len when we need him? LOL

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Hmmm. I'm not disagreeing, but is there a difference between in-state and out-of-state sales??? Maybe in-state can't ship? I don't know but I wouldn't put it past mASSachusetts. Where is Len when we need him? LOL

The difference is the level of fire and brimstone the state can lay down on its own subjects vs out of state shopkeepers.

 

[csobrien]

Anybody order anything with MFS recently? They say they’ll call you to make an appointment after you order online but it’s been days since I ordered without hearing anything back

I ordered from them last Thursday afternoon. They called today. First available appointment was for Friday. I booked a Saturday appointment.

ETA: Thanks to Comm2A, SAF, FPC and everyone else involved in the suit.

 

[KMM696]

Hmmm. I'm not disagreeing, but is there a difference between in-state and out-of-state sales??? Maybe in-state can't ship? I don't know but I wouldn't put it past mASSachusetts. Where is Len when we need him? LOL

I'd think the issue would come out of C140 S122b (which covers the MA ammunition sales license) where it states "Every license shall specify the street and number, if any, of the building where the business is to be carried on." If I have a Mass ammo license and I'm selling and shipping ammo inside MA, where does that transaction take place? If I'm shipping into MA from out of state, the transaction is considered to be happening at the out of state location, right? Also, I don't have a MA ammo sales permission slip so S122b wouldn't apply. It certainly gives the state an easy spot to insert the enema nozzle.

It also makes me wonder about gun show firearms sales. There's similar language in S122 (MA firearms sales licensing) - how does a MA shop sell at a show? With either of these issues we've heading off into 'call a lawyer' territory, and I'm not one.

 

[RumRunner]

Remember we're talking about a state where there's a bunch of townie nipple heads that live in it that practically make horse braying panic noises if they have to drive west of 495....

Why would any sane person want to venture out into the wild west?

 

[deerdad]

The same reason a country bumpkin like me would drive almost to the cape to make a purchase on a private sale. It's what we do. LOL

Why would any sane person want to venture out into the wild west?

 

[CrackPot]

Rob, isn't it in the law (S. 122 is my guess) for dealer's licensing as an ammo dealer in MA?

MGL C 140 S 122B
No person shall sell ammunition in the commonwealth unless duly licensed... Every license shall specify the street and number, if any, of the building where the business is to be carried on.

So a MA dealer cannot sell ammo outside of their place of business and cannot ship to a MA resident. An out of state dealer of ammo can just ship into the state.

There is a similar disconnect where a MA dealer cannot recognize your 03 FFL (until 1 Jan 2021) so it is easier to get a off list C&R handgun shipped to a FFL in NH and pick it up there than try and get it from a MA dealer...

 

[DW357]

Leominster lawyer leads effort to reverse COVID-19 gun shop closures

Second Amendment advocates notched a win last week in their battle with the state to keep gun shops and shooting ranges open during the COVID-19 pandemic, despite state officials deeming them non-ess…

www.telegram.com

I didn't listen to all of it but when I did Jensen did all of the heavy lifting.

I listened to the entire 2 hour hearing and yes Jensen did all of the heavy lifting.

 

[exo]

MA has given strip club and gun stores equal treatment.

Strip clubs have another avenue - one can credibly argue that stripping is an art form, therefore a form of speech, and is entitled to protection as a right of the first class.

Does that mean strip clubs could apply for NEA grants? I smell a business opportunity.

 

[Coyote33]

Hearing ended.
Next hearing will be on 5/29 at 10am if I’m not mistaken?

Surely this can not be the case. There needs to be a sense of urgency for these essential businesses.

TRO is just that - temporary. Designed to prevent further harm to one of the parties in the case until the full case can be tried on its merits.

The judge clearly saw this was motivated by the states animosity towards firearms and mentioned that during the hearing. He also commented about how rights need to be protected even if those rights are not popular with some of the population. ...

Yet shops continue to get punished and treated differently than other businesses, especially ones like Walmart. They really should push to have Walmart only allow 4 customers per hour, and see what the feedback is. They can't say it is health related due to space, as some shops have more space. They can't say it is much of anything, since the 4 per hour is totally picked out of thin air.

This was a TEMPORARY restraining order.
Trial on the merits to follow unless a lifting of restrictions moots the case.

When? 5/29? That is 16 days from now, which is a LONG LONG time for a business or shop.

 

[Coyote33]

Possibly related: Judge rules that strip clubs are businesses and cannot be excluded from collecting relief funds.



Bottom line: you cannot block businesses from collecting government pandemic relief simply because you have a moral objection to the (otherwise legal) business they're in.

I said this in post 1304. ;-)