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Confirmed instances of .pdf/paper FA-10 form rejection by MA FRB
- Thread starter JFR2
- Start date
I don't. The thing that doesn't wash Len, is that most PDs had FA-10 forms readily up until the time that they started pushing E-FA-10 out.
The other possibility is that CJIS is only doing something lame like sending every PD 10 forms at a time, so they run out in a week or less. That wouldn't surprise me, either.
The reality is probably some modified version of #1. "Oh yeah were sending the forms out..." (without saying they're only sending 10 at a time).
-Mike
namedpipes
NES Member
I believe #1.
Possibly the FRB *is* mailing some forms, but only to departments they KNOW will throw them away.
Look, one person (or a very small group of people) at FRB is lying, or dozens, perhaps hundreds at police departments throughout the state are lying.
scott-o
NES Member
I see that, in the law. Wondering why they sent it back to me, the buyer.
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Billsail
NES Member
Maybe they send it back to both parties. Did you check with the seller, to see if his was returned, as well? BTW, the pdf form is no longer accepted. If you want to use paper, you must use the new forms with individual, unique serial numbers. Of course, they're impossible to find.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
scott-o
NES Member
Maybe they send it back to both parties. Did you check with the seller, to see if his was returned, as well? BTW, the pdf form is no longer accepted. If you want to use paper, you must use the new forms with individual, unique serial numbers. Of course, they're impossible to find.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I know the eFA10 is easy and quick, but here is my problem. Once its all on a webserver, all you have to do is switch off the server. I know what they are trying to do in making the paper ones hard to find, either save money, discourage personal transfers, or GO GREEN. Also with the paper the FRB copy can somehow get lost in the mail and all that exists is the buyer/seller copies.
Either way I am trying to make them have the paper FINDABLE still for a backup to counter the 2nd proposed reason mentioned above.
Also there is only one copy sent in to the FRB, one to buyer and one to seller. They sent me the letter with the copy sent to them.
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![[devil]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/015.gif "Devil [devil]")
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Billsail
NES Member
I mail it in. If it gets eaten by a letter sorting machine...oh well...not my problem. I retain a copy for myself, that's it.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I asked if the seller received his back from the FRB, as well?
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scott-o
NES Member
Yet to be determined.
scott-o
NES Member
Update: I am all squared, I was just investigating the issue with the paper version's availability.
Here is what I was able to gather in my efforts:
1) Called FRB on a monday requested paper FA10s sent to 6 departments.
2) Called all departments on the friday, only one of them had the forms, which I grabbed, they didn't specify if they had come in that week due to my call to the FRB.
3) I spoke with the guy at the station he says that getting the forms is a hassle now and that the FRB is a "difficult group of people to deal with"
4) Guy at the station also said that they send them out on pads now with only about 10 FA10s per pad and its not on a regular schedule.
Still no 'pads' delivered to the rest of the departments.
Here is what I was able to gather in my efforts:
1) Called FRB on a monday requested paper FA10s sent to 6 departments.
2) Called all departments on the friday, only one of them had the forms, which I grabbed, they didn't specify if they had come in that week due to my call to the FRB.
3) I spoke with the guy at the station he says that getting the forms is a hassle now and that the FRB is a "difficult group of people to deal with"
4) Guy at the station also said that they send them out on pads now with only about 10 FA10s per pad and its not on a regular schedule.
Still no 'pads' delivered to the rest of the departments.
Looks like evidence that they received your registration. If they choose not to process it, that's on them. The PDF FA-10 was at one time furnished by them, so, yeah.
IANAL, YMMV, WWJD.
It hasn't been a secret and there have been other memos under Michaela's name before this one.
It really doesn't matter to most/all of us. She seems like a very nice lady, as I've had some correspondence with her on an issue and she's asked me to stay in touch with her if I have any further questions. However, she is NOT an attorney and unlike Jason who I spent hours on the phone and in person discussing obscure issues of MA gun law, I know enough not to do that very often with someone who doesn't have the credentials to interpret those nuances in a way that would hold water if push were to come to shove. If I were to do that and ask her to "push it up the hill", the legal response would be from the EOPS attorney who comes across as being a Sarah Brady clone!
whats the number for the FRB to tell them to mail some FA10s out to the pd? I stop by my PD when I go to the library at least once a month and they NEVER have any. They even showed me the empty manilla envelope that they used to keep them in this last time. I figure Ill give them a hand getting that envelope filled.
namedpipes
NES Member
Go ahead and do that, then stop at the PD each and every day for the next two months. They will not arrive. Ever.
I called lexington pd today to see if they might have the forms ... some guy gives me a lecture on why the state stopped mailing out paper forms to save money ... "They dont print paper ones anymore" was the last thing he said before I gave up on that phone call.
namedpipes
NES Member
That would be the PD that recently assisted their Selectmen in trampling the Constitutional rights of the citizens, right?
Wouldn't it be amusing if a couple of hundred people called over the course of the day asking the same question?
The non-emergency, business line for the Lex PD is (781) 863-9200.
![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
Got a rejection letter yesterday that says I can go to my local pd to pick up a form. Called FRB to tell them that the pd claims they have no forms. They suggest I fill out the online one. I told her my internet is down and she tells me to go to the library ... WTF? Then I said I just want a paper form right now. Finally she says tell your local pd to call us and request the forms?
If the law says I can get it at the local pd and nobody will stock them at the local pd, who the hell do I complain to, FRB obviously doesn't give a sh*t? Can I call my state rep? will they even do anything?
If the law says I can get it at the local pd and nobody will stock them at the local pd, who the hell do I complain to, FRB obviously doesn't give a sh*t? Can I call my state rep? will they even do anything?
You can try, but they won't give an F either.
There's a thread here with local PDs, that have or have had recently Paper FA-10s. Good luck, it's a complete sham that we even have to USE FA-10s.
I have been critizes for offering my opinion before, but the law says report in writing. Doing it on line does not sound like it comples with the law. The law also does not specify a particular form or version of a form. You could write it down on a piece of blank paper and in my un-proffessional non legal opinion you have complied with the law. If they challenge you, it will be expensive. But how the hell is anybody supposed to comply within 7 days if there are no forms to be had?
namedpipes
NES Member
It rather reminds me of the line from Goldfinger:
James Bond: Do you expect me to talk?
Auric Goldfinger: No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!
The FRB is just as happy to "have something on you" for not complying as they are to have you submit to them.
They don't really CARE if you submit or not. They've either "got" your data or they've got leverage on you should you ever come to the attention of law enforcement.
That is technically true for transfers effected pursuant to MGL 140-128B...
MGL 140-128B said:
However, transfers effected pursuant to MGL 140-128A are required to be reported on "...forms furnished by..." DCJIS...
MGL 140-128A said:
Arguably, the fill-able PDF forms, which were previously furnished by DCJIS, do satisfy 128A.
Of course, IANAL and YMMV.
They really don't have any leverage though, as the absence of any data in their system is not indicative of failing to comply.
It would be nearly impossible for them to prove that an individual did not mail the form (unlike change of address notification, which must be sent via certified mail).
namedpipes
NES Member
They don't have to.
The man in Gloucester whose wife wanted a divorce - AFT, FBI, SWAT and the whole nine yards. When it turned out after all that the guy was squeaky clean he was still safer to take plea bargain on bullshit lesser charges (DQ for life) . He *might* have walked in the end, but he might have spent the next century in jail even though the charges were bogus.
ANYTHING you COULD be charged with is leverage.
Worse part with MTBS guy is outside of the so called "silencer" (which was probably a bunch of BS, as you can make a lot of things which could be described and work as a silencer..) and his shooting range in the attic, the guy pretty much was squeaky clean... it was readily apparent that they more or less just made shit up as they went along. The attitude was more or less to throw bologna at the wall until it stuck. If the case actually went to full trial it probably would have failed, but as is typical, they probably wore him down by that point.
-Mike
namedpipes
NES Member
Worse part with MTBS guy is outside of the so called "silencer" (which was probably a bunch of BS, as you can make a lot of things which could be described and work as a silencer..) and his shooting range in the attic, the guy pretty much was squeaky clean... it was readily apparent that they more or less just made shit up as they went along. The attitude was more or less to throw bologna at the wall until it stuck. If the case actually went to full trial it probably would have failed, but as is typical, they probably wore him down by that point.
-Mike
He could have been almost any one of us. And no, I don't mean some NES'ers are sketchy in their habits. He came to the attention of the state and paid the price. The man in Lowell whose guns were stolen from his vault by thieves determined enough to spend hours breaking into it is another case in point.
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