What would be an easier solution - ban and confiscate all semi automatics in this country or put some level III steel auto vault locking doors on every school classroom? Could the quarter trillion dollars we gifted Ukraine covered some of this?
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First school shooting of the fall
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MaverickNH
NES Member
If a Threat Is Not a Crime, Can the Police Prevent a School Shooting?
Officers are limited in their response to a possible threat of violence, but they are being trained to identify and monitor worrisome behavior earlier.
“Behavioral threat assessment” is not like bridge inspection - there are no specifications for mass killers. While the article talks about law enforcement’s role, law enforcement should be the failsafe, not the primary means of detection and prevention. Threat Assessment Teams are assembled from overworked staff from public health, law enforcement and education who are cranking through an ever growing number of behaviorally challenged kids.
Even if only the kids with voiced suicidal/homicidal admissions were addressed, resources are far to scarce to deal with them.
”Dewey G. Cornell, a forensic psychologist and education professor at the University of Virginia who helps train schools to conduct behavioral threat assessments, said that 85 percent of U.S. schools reported using threat assessment teams.
In his research examining more than 22,000 student threats of violence in one school year in Florida, Dr. Cornell found that very few threats were attempted or carried out; less than 1 percent resulted in serious injury, and less than 1 percent of students were arrested.“
Sure, using existing staff to create Threat Assessment Teams to cheaper than hardening schools and hiring SROs, but which is “more effective” is questionable. With 346 school shootings in 2023, counted by less rigorous standards, in ~111k schools in the US, 3 in 1000 schools experienced such a shooting event. That Treat Assessment Teams were 99.7% effective doesn’t appear good enough, given the “crisis” label applied to the “epidemic” of school shootings. How much better can behavioral prediction get?
”Building threat assessment teams and training them takes considerable time and expertise, said Marc Zimmerman, co-director of the Institute for Firearm Injury Prevention and the National Center for School Safety, both based at the University of Michigan. But creating a supportive and responsive school environment is key to preventing violence, he said, and is much more effective — and cheaper — than hardening schools with gates, locks and metal detectors.”
A “supportive and responsive school environment” works for most kids when their home life is stable and decent. When the home environment is nasty, school environment struggles to be a solution.
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Maxrobot
NES Member
15-year-old student dead after shooting in school bathroom in Maryland; police
One student is dead after a shooting occurred in the boy's bathroom of Joppatowne High School Friday afternoon, according to Harford County officials.
Shooting at Maryland high school leaves 15-year-old seriously injured
A 15-year-old was shot during a fight at a high school in Maryland on Friday. The shooter, a 16-year-old, was arrested.
www.wtvr.com
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
If a Threat Is Not a Crime, Can the Police Prevent a School Shooting?
Officers are limited in their response to a possible threat of violence, but they are being trained to identify and monitor worrisome behavior earlier.www.nytimes.com
“Behavioral threat assessment” is not like bridge inspection - there are no specifications for mass killers. While the article talks about law enforcement’s role, law enforcement should be the failsafe, not the primary means of detection and prevention. Threat Assessment Teams are assembled from overworked staff from public health, law enforcement and education who are cranking through an ever growing number of behaviorally challenged kids.
Even if only the kids with voiced suicidal/homicidal admissions were addressed, resources are far to scarce to deal with them.
”Dewey G. Cornell, a forensic psychologist and education professor at the University of Virginia who helps train schools to conduct behavioral threat assessments, said that 85 percent of U.S. schools reported using threat assessment teams.
In his research examining more than 22,000 student threats of violence in one school year in Florida, Dr. Cornell found that very few threats were attempted or carried out; less than 1 percent resulted in serious injury, and less than 1 percent of students were arrested.“
Sure, using existing staff to create Threat Assessment Teams to cheaper than hardening schools and hiring SROs, but which is “more effective” is questionable. With 346 school shootings in 2023, counted by less rigorous standards, in ~111k schools in the US, 3 in 1000 schools experienced such a shooting event. That Treat Assessment Teams were 99.7% effective doesn’t appear good enough, given the “crisis” label applied to the “epidemic” of school shootings. How much better can behavioral prediction get?
”Building threat assessment teams and training them takes considerable time and expertise, said Marc Zimmerman, co-director of the Institute for Firearm Injury Prevention and the National Center for School Safety, both based at the University of Michigan. But creating a supportive and responsive school environment is key to preventing violence, he said, and is much more effective — and cheaper — than hardening schools with gates, locks and metal detectors.”
A “supportive and responsive school environment” works for most kids when their home life is stable and decent. When the home environment is nasty, school environment struggles to be a solution.
There is no way to predict who will commit a school shooting.
pastera
NES Member
Too bad that's not what he said
Violence does not only include mass casualty event.
And one can't simply use raw numbers when speaking about a particular demographic.
You would need to parse out all of those mass shootings to remove gang/drug events then adjust the rate against the percentage of trans population.
I haven't done the math nor have I seen a reputable outlet report it so I can only state that you method of using raw number of events is not correct.
Are trans people becoming increasingly more violent or is it just more visible because of reporting? Who knows.
pastera
NES Member
I don't challenge anyone's identity but I won't be forced to accept their mental illnesses either.
I will use someone's given or surname as a replacement, however awkward, to avoid upsetting them
But if they force the issue or become angry at my use of a proper pronoun that's on them.
Maxrobot
NES Member
The old style Ball M193 5.56mm ammo would tumble and create huge wounds. The newer M855 (green tip) used since the mid-1980s had field complaints that it just drilled holes though victims. Does most of the commercially available .223/5.56 perform like M193 or M855?
This girl was hit in the shoulder.
"...she underwent surgery to close the wound, and doctors thought the bone was aligned enough to heal on its own."
www.wsbtv.com
This girl was hit in the shoulder.
"...she underwent surgery to close the wound, and doctors thought the bone was aligned enough to heal on its own."
Survivor of shooting at Apalachee High School returns home from hospital
Her mother said on Friday that she underwent surgery to close the wound, and doctors thought the bone was aligned enough to heal on its own.
www.wsbtv.com
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NortheastEasy
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That’s racist!
Maxrobot
NES Member
“She was very smart. God, she was brilliant, "
Irimie considered her students her children. The night before she died, Buth said Irimie baked a cake and brought it to the classroom the next day with pizza. She wanted to celebrate her birthday with the kids.
“And she never came home,”
www.wsbtv.com
Irimie considered her students her children. The night before she died, Buth said Irimie baked a cake and brought it to the classroom the next day with pizza. She wanted to celebrate her birthday with the kids.
“And she never came home,”
Apalachee school shooting: Cristina Irimie brought cake, pizza for her students on the day she died
When Cristina Irimie went to Apalachee High School on Wednesday morning, she was planning to celebrate with her students.
www.wsbtv.com
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In fact, i would make the assertion that trans people are more stable than the average person, as most of us put up with discrimination, insults, bullying, and even violence without losing control.
If people really want to help the situation, stop being bullies toward people who make you uncomfortable.
NortheastEasy
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That’s discrimination!
NortheastEasy
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And why did you say black? lol
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There is a news story that the kid's mom got a highly concerning text from the kid, right before the incident, and called the school to warn them. If you add this to the fact that this kid was on the radar of the FBI, the local cops, AND the schools, it suggests that the people in charge dropped the ball yet again.“She was very smart. God, she was brilliant, "
Irimie considered her students her children. The night before she died, Buth said Irimie baked a cake and brought it to the classroom the next day with pizza. She wanted to celebrate her birthday with the kids.
“And she never came home,”
Apalachee school shooting: Cristina Irimie brought cake, pizza for her students on the day she died
When Cristina Irimie went to Apalachee High School on Wednesday morning, she was planning to celebrate with her students.
I really wish that people would stop using the government as the knee-jerk, first solution to any problem. In reality, government is the worst, most inept, most expensive, and most corrupt possible way to solve any problem. Government should only be the choice when no other alternative has a chance of working. That's why Trump's plan to fire half the government employees sounds so sweet.
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Someone who intentionally hurts other people because it makes them feel powerful are obviously suffering from mental illness, so maybe you should look inwards before you start lashing out at others.
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School shootings are a symptom of a serious disease. No one seems to want to look at the disease, and instead, are running around nearly blind, trying to address symptoms. Until we figure out the disease, the symptoms are never going to go away.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Without a doubt. We used to as well. Gossip and coffee clutch conversation is a long way from accurately predicting future events.
PROOF: Biden-Harris EXPLOIT Apalachee tragedy to TAKE your guns | Blaze Media
When there’s a tragedy, there is a politician exploiting the tragedy to push their political agenda — and the Apalachee High School shooting in Georgia is no different. The horror began when a 14-year-old student shot and killed two students, Christian Angulo and Mason Schermerhorn, and two...
www.theblaze.com
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You (and others) talk about it like trans people are raising some kind of army powered on hormones and SSRIs. It's just silly.
1% of the US population identify as transgender. (What percentage of the US population is transgender?)
And I'd bet most just want to be left the hell alone. The whole 'many threaten violence' is simply an unsubstantiated sound byte.
MaverickNH
NES Member
So, of those students deemed a high risk by school Threat Assessment Teams, I’m not surprised if 99% end up not being mass killers (as the article I mention in Post 332 above finds for FL). There’s probably not enough data in any of the 9 states that mandate such teams, but I’d be curious, of the students that do end up being mass killers (in school or elsewhere), how many were not deemed a high risk?
Like you say, quiet kids don’t reveal to what degree they’re broken.
It’s the false negative rate that’s an issue. If only 85% of US high schools have Threat Assessment Teams, that’s a glaring defect.
Nightshift
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Hmmmmm, let's see................... The FBI, The DOJ, Most of the Democrat Party, and the entire left end of the political spectrum!
Almost daily!!!!!!!!
pastera
NES Member
Yes, violently screaming at someone who makes a mistake interpreting your chosen identity that differs from the 98% norm is perfectly fine and not hurtful.
I stated my position that I treat people as kindly as possible until the person insists I act against my personal knowledge and beliefs.
If you think that is hurtful - you do you.
BroncoAZ
NES Member
I had to look up SSRI. That problem extends far beyond the trans community.
Hormones are very powerful and influence behavior, messing with the delicate balance in the body is not without consequences. My wife was prescribed a different birth control pill in college, it made her a raging bitch for about a year until her doctor agreed to put her on something else. Another example would be the gym guys on steroids having “roid rage”. I would agree that the majority of trans want to be left alone to live their lives, but there is a subset of trans people (biological males from what I’ve seen) making similar videos advocating violence.
Charts like this one are very interesting. Are these younger generations naturally that much more LBGT than the previous generations, or are they being influenced by the celebration of all things not cisgender by the media and democrats? I would love to see a comprehensive data set for ages down to about 10 to demonstrate how much the social contagion is influencing kids who want to be accepted by their peers. Anecdotal evidence from speaking to my buddies kids in the 12-15 age range suggests that large portions of their peers are claiming to be LBGTQ because it’s considered cool, although most of them end up dating in traditional cisgender roles. It would be interesting to follow a large group of kids from maybe age 5 on for the next 20 years to see how many have trans feelings when young and how many go back to traditional norms or how many regret decisions made by their adolescent selves.
Rat187
NES Member
I grew up in the 50's-60's most of our parents had guns and most of us kids had a rifle or two. Was there bullying in schools, yes, plenty. You took your lumps and learned from it, or didn't. There were simply no school shootings, they didn't exist in this Country even tho it was awash with guns, on TV, etc. There were hardly purchase laws. Hell can't even wrap my head around wanting to kill another student/s because of hurt feelings....WTF?
So eff everyone who tells me the solution to the problem is banning guns, the social media talking of guns, more censoring. The Democrats are acting like Nazis or Bolshevik simply because the only way they could stay in power is more laws and more repression, and the Republicans aren't much better, but they are better.
Gib out...
So eff everyone who tells me the solution to the problem is banning guns, the social media talking of guns, more censoring. The Democrats are acting like Nazis or Bolshevik simply because the only way they could stay in power is more laws and more repression, and the Republicans aren't much better, but they are better.
Gib out...
MaverickNH
NES Member
The large majority of Gen Z that identify as other than strictly heterosexual are white females. One study found that within 3yr of leaving school (high school to a job or college to a job), over 2/3rd of those previously identifying as other than strictly heterosexual now limit themselves to monogamous relationships with males. All that LGBTQIA+ stuff - gone.
When your coworkers don’t care about your chosen identity and you can’t wear pajamas and carry a stuffed comfort animal on the job, it all ends rather quickly.
Not if the Threat Assessment Teams have no clue what they're doing.
I know who's on my school's version of that kind of team. They're just normal, standard-issue teachers. They've got no special training, and they're certainly not Gandalf: they can't predict shit.
MaverickNH
NES Member
Ask the kids to vote for “Who’s most likely to be a school shooter” but keep the results confidential. It’s like crowd-sourced intel.
Yeah, OK - that can never happen. The media can only interview students AFTER a mass shooting to find out he was on everybody’s Top 3 list.
The kids are not good at it either.
There's no need for a confidential survey: your students will TELL you who they're afraid of.
They've never, in my experience, been right. It's become just another way to pick on the "weird kids."
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