HD.4420 State House and Boston Common Rally

[pastera]

What assertion? That Massachusetts gun-owners tend to be old white males or Massachusetts is an overwhelmingly leftist state?

Is this a serious discussion or are you f***ing with me right now?

My statement that we are losing because we as a whole are a bunch of gutless, lazy and whiny a**h***s.

And yes I'm serious.
@HKdrummer put together a coalition back in 2016 that made a massive difference. That was just a email list of people willing to simply call legislators.
There were only a handful of highly active people doing the emails and coordinating but a thousand people picking up the phone was enough.

Ask yourself what happened to a done deal that made the senate kill it?
People crushed the inboxes and voicemail of their legislators.

It takes about an hour per week to listen to podcasts/videos on the subject and then call legislators to make a clear and reasoned argument.
Then if a hundred other people then call the same legislators with the same talking points you get a very interested call back. Make that a few thousand calls then you get an open invitation.

But none of this means anything when the person is determined to find a reason to excuse their own inaction.

 

[Grendizer138]

My statement that we are losing because we as a whole are a bunch of gutless, lazy and whiny a**h***s.

And yes I'm serious.
@HKdrummer put together a coalition back in 2016 that made a massive difference. That was just a email list of people willing to simply call legislators.
There were only a handful of highly active people doing the emails and coordinating but a thousand people picking up the phone was enough.

Ask yourself what happened to a done deal that made the senate kill it?
People crushed the inboxes and voicemail of their legislators.

It takes about an hour per week to listen to podcasts/videos on the subject and then call legislators to make a clear and reasoned argument.
Then if a hundred other people then call the same legislators with the same talking points you get a very interested call back. Make that a few thousand calls then you get an open invitation.

But none of this means anything when the person is determined to find a reason to excuse their own inaction.

What pro-2A victory have you accomplished in Massachusetts by these methods in the past 8 years?

Good faith question, so try your best to answer without sounding like a virtue-signaling douche.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Maybe, just maybe, online infighting isn't the way to improve our state laws?

People who were there had their reasons, people who weren't there had theirs. Just leave it at that instead of having an online dick measuring contest, JFC.

Shut up. I'm better than you.

 

[In God We Trust]

I wish everyone would take a deep breath and remember that the enemy isn’t someone posting in this thread.

 

[Picton]

Shut up. I'm better than you.

 

[pastera]

What pro-2A victory have you accomplished in Massachusetts by these methods in the past 8 years?

Good faith question, so try your best to answer without sounding like a virtue-signaling douche.

Do you think 4420 was the first time they tried this BS?
Did we get a huge amount of positive?
Not really - pepper spray and C&R purchases (delayed implementation)

But the list of restrictions that didn't occur would have filled up a good portion of the 4420 wish list.

And we now have Bruen in our tool chest - yes, there is an opportunity to affect the outcome here without the cost and massive time-line of going through the courts. And where advocacy fails, we still have the courts to fix a hopefully smaller range of infringements.

As far as a virtue signaling douche - if that's what it takes I'm okay with it.

 

[pastera]

Maybe, just maybe, online infighting isn't the way to improve our state laws?

People who were there had their reasons, people who weren't there had theirs. Just leave it at that instead of having an online dick measuring contest, JFC.

Agree
Those that couldn't make it for legitimate reasons simply couldn't make it.
Picking up the phone and making a call to follow up the event is just as important, maybe more so.

If you can't make to an event and phone calls are an issue then toss some funding to GOAL and Com2a.

Everyone can serve in some manner.

 

[Sparky1911]

I don’t even know I post here. So many special little boys.

 

[SgtHal75]

look at all this infighting. Ain’t no way in hell we will fight another revolution let alone win one… too many people won’t be able to miss work to fight it

Can you imagine the look on Paul Revere’s face…..” the British are coming the British are coming!!!”

Colonist - “ Sorry Hoss, can’t miss work. Let me know how you make out though.”

 

[Grendizer138]

I wish everyone would take a deep breath and remember that the enemy isn’t someone posting in this thread.

Nah, it’s good to know where people stand and how they treat you when you don’t agree with them.

 

[Picton]

look at all this infighting. Ain’t no way in hell we will fight another revolution let alone win one… too many people won’t be able to miss work to fight it

Can you imagine the look on Paul Revere’s face…..” the British are coming the British are coming!!!”

Colonist - “ Sorry Hoss, can’t miss work. Let me know how you make out though.”

Relax.

The minute companies responded to Revere's warning. The vast majority of the rest of the population didn't. There weren't even 4,000 militia that showed up at any point during that day's fighting, and most went back home the same night. That's a shade more than 1% of the Massachusetts Bay population at that time. Even if you factor in the population of just Middlesex, it's still less than 5%. Or 10% if you only count men. This myth that every colonial was a strong, silent warrior is just not true.

It's a silly comparison anyway. The world of 1775 and the world of 2023 have almost no similarities.

Speaking for myself, if it gets to the point where shooting starts, my work will have been canceled anyway. So it's kind of a moot point. This wasn't the Battle of Lexington; it was just another rally. I've been to those before, and if they worked all that well? We wouldn't have had to do it again yesterday.

 

[Sparky1911]

Nah, it’s good to know where people stand and how they treat you when you don’t agree with them.

It’s like I tell girls that i’ve broken up with, we don’t have to be enemies, but we can’t be friends either.

These are the types of people we have in this state…... No wonder we’re f$cked.
Bro you are real piece of work……so special
Stay wet and sticky.

 

[kalash]

Agree
Those that couldn't make it for legitimate reasons simply couldn't make it.
Picking up the phone and making a call to follow up the event is just as important, maybe more so.

If you can't make to an event and phone calls are an issue then toss some funding to GOAL and Com2a.

Everyone can serve in some manner.

Who are you to decide what's a "legitimate reason" and what isn't?

I, for one, think you wasted your time yesterday. MA voters overwhelmingly support gun control and the legislators know it. It's nice that they pretended to listen to you but in the end a dozen bearded guys with Gadsden tshirts pale in comparison to the other 95% of constituents who DGAF (at best) about gun rights. You think your detailed explanation of the laws actually matters to them???

I went to the 2016 rally. It was a waste of time. No one even cared that AGs can't make law. The rally accomplished precisely nothing, other than making me pay like $40 for parking. I don't for one second believe that your efforts will accomplish anything in this particular state, though I applaud you for trying and I hope I'm proven wrong.

This gets resolved in the courts, not on Beacon Hill, so I'll just continue my automated monthly donation to Comm2A and FPC.

 

[Picton]

I went to the 2016 rally. It was a waste of time. No one even cared that AGs can't make law. The rally accomplished precisely nothing, other than making me pay like $40 for parking. I don't for one second believe that your efforts will accomplish anything in this particular state, though I applaud you for trying and I hope I'm proven wrong.

I parked in Somerville and jogged over. It was a better way to go; at least I got a decent 5 miler out of that day.

I agree. Props to those who went yesterday. But I wasn't one of them.

This gets resolved in the courts, not on Beacon Hill, so I'll just continue my automated monthly donation to Comm2A and FPC.

Yep.

 

[pastera]

Who are you to decide what's a "legitimate reason" and what isn't?

I, for one, think you wasted your time yesterday. MA voters overwhelmingly support gun control and the legislators know it. It's nice that they pretended to listen to you but in the end a dozen bearded guys with Gadsden tshirts pale in comparison to the other 95% of constituents who DGAF (at best) about gun rights. You think your detailed explanation of the laws actually matters to them???

I went to the 2016 rally. It was a waste of time. No one even cared that AGs can't make law. The rally accomplished precisely nothing, other than making me pay like $40 for parking. I don't for one second believe that your efforts will accomplish anything in this particular state, though I applaud you for trying and I hope I'm proven wrong.

This gets resolved in the courts, not on Beacon Hill, so I'll just continue my automated monthly donation to Comm2A and FPC.

As far as legitimacy - I'm not the judge. The person themselves knows how legitimate their reasons actually are.

Yeah - I mixed up the dates 2013 not 2016
2013 was the last iteration of 'listening tours'
Hard to believe how long this shit has been going on
The declaration on 'copies and duplicates' didn't have any force of law so there wasn't anything for the legislature to do other than pass a new law clarifying that it is legal to own AR platform rifles.
No action necessary since they knew they would take a hit if they did something for us and we wouldn't do anything since the declaration was complete BS to start with.

But the 2013 H4285 was watered down a lot by GOAL because of the number of people who got involved (Jim can't do his job if we don't support him by contacting legislators)

 

[Rockrivr1]

Relax.

The minute companies responded to Revere's warning. The vast majority of the rest of the population didn't. There weren't even 4,000 militia that showed up at any point during that day's fighting, and most went back home the same night. That's a shade more than 1% of the Massachusetts Bay population at that time. Even if you factor in the population of just Middlesex, it's still less than 5%. Or 10% if you only count men. This myth that every colonial was a strong, silent warrior is just not true.

It's a silly comparison anyway. The world of 1775 and the world of 2023 have almost no similarities.

Speaking for myself, if it gets to the point where shooting starts, my work will have been canceled anyway. So it's kind of a moot point. This wasn't the Battle of Lexington; it was just another rally. I've been to those before, and if they worked all that well? We wouldn't have had to do it again yesterday.

The real question becomes whether the tanks, mortars and machine guns at the American Heritage Museum has actual ammunition for those weapons/vehicles squirreled away! If so, things at the State House could get a LOT more interesting.

 

[Grendizer138]

These are the types of people we have in this state…... No wonder we’re f$cked.
Bro you are real piece of work……so special
Stay wet and sticky.

Well I’m convinced.

Let me make this so easy even you can understand: I wouldn’t have gone to the rally if I lived across the street. It was foolish and counterproductive and I’m surprised GOAL organized it, but I’ll continue to donate to them anyway.

 

[SgtHal75]

Relax.

The minute companies responded to Revere's warning. The vast majority of the rest of the population didn't. There weren't even 4,000 militia that showed up at any point during that day's fighting, and most went back home the same night. That's a shade more than 1% of the Massachusetts Bay population at that time. Even if you factor in the population of just Middlesex, it's still less than 5%. Or 10% if you only count men. This myth that every colonial was a strong, silent warrior is just not true.

It's a silly comparison anyway. The world of 1775 and the world of 2023 have almost no similarities.

Speaking for myself, if it gets to the point where shooting starts, my work will have been canceled anyway. So it's kind of a moot point. This wasn't the Battle of Lexington; it was just another rally. I've been to those before, and if they worked all that well? We wouldn't have had to do it again yesterday.

smartest guy on the Internet strikes again!!
It’s a joke and you know it. Go start trouble somewhere else

 

[Len-2A Training]

As to being a GOAL member, it’s the same thing for me really. I think lobbying for gun rights in Massachusetts is a waste of time and money.
occasional check. When this stupid law passes, I will mail COMM2A aa check if they are going to fight it. I will also contact the NRA and insist they get involved.

GOAL's lobbying efforts certainly do help to REDUCE the damage done in bills that are in play. GOAL isn't powerful enough to get pro-2A bills to pass, but they mitigate potential damage and do a good job at that.

But the 2013 H4285 was watered down a lot by GOAL because of the number of people who got involved (Jim can't do his job if we don't support him by contacting legislators)

I agree as I stated above.

 

[pastera]

Rallys aren't done to directly influence legislators. They are to get the base involved and informed.

Once the rally is over and the people interface with their legislators, that's where the real work gets done.

Information is powerful - get informed so that you can ask your legislators questions on these bills then question their response and provide counter arguments that follow fact and logic.

More importantly, provide talking points and responses for your legislators to use in discussion with other legislators.
Arm yourself with knowledge then transfer that knowledge to others.

Or sit home and bitch, just as effective .

 

[Grendizer138]

Rallys aren't done to directly influence legislators. They are to get the base involved and informed.

Once the rally is over and the people interface with their legislators, that's where the real work gets done.

Information is powerful - get informed so that you can ask your legislators questions on these bills then question their response and provide counter arguments that follow fact and logic.

More importantly, provide talking points and responses for your legislators to use in discussion with other legislators.
Arm yourself with knowledge then transfer that knowledge to others.

Or sit home and bitch, just as effective .

You keep making points I generally agree with but then have to make a virtue-signaling dig at every conclusion.

For someone that fancies himself as informed and influential, you should really work on your communication skills.

 

[pastera]

You keep making points I generally agree with but then have to make a virtue-signaling dig at every conclusion.

For someone that fancies himself as informed and influential, you should really work on your communication skills.

Can't help myself - I could leave of the digs but I find it amusing and being old and neurodiverse I simply don't care enough not to indulge in petty shit slinging.

 

[Grendizer138]

Can't help myself - I could leave of the digs but I find it amusing and being old and neurodiverse I simply don't care enough not to indulge in petty shit slinging.

Finally some common ground!

 

[M60]

Spoke to two reps yesterday, mine and another in the same office who claimed to be a gun owner (no reason not to believe)
Both mentioned ghost guns separately.
I asked both to define a ghost gun with the usual deer in headlights response.
They were busy and spent a lot more time discussing 4420 with me than I would have expected.
They both lacked clear understanding of both current Mass and Federal gun laws.

They simply don't understand the subject at hand so going after them with emotional, reactionary arguments will fail horribly.
We need to sit down and carefully explain why the bill is a train wreck and how they can craft changes that might make a difference.

If you couldn't make it to the rally, make to their local office. Do your homework and understand the laws involved well enough to basically explain 'if you do A then B is the result, and no one wants B'
This isn't hard bit it does take time reading and discussing some very dry and boring documents.
Life is neither fair or easy - just get it done.

 

[M60]

look at all this infighting. Ain’t no way in hell we will fight another revolution let alone win one… too many people won’t be able to miss work to fight it

Can you imagine the look on Paul Revere’s face…..” the British are coming the British are coming!!!”

Colonist - “ Sorry Hoss, can’t miss work. Let me know how you make out

Atta boy Sgt Hal 75. Good on you.

 

[M60]

look at all this infighting. Ain’t no way in hell we will fight another revolution let alone win one… too many people won’t be able to miss work to fight it

Can you imagine the look on Paul Revere’s face…..” the British are coming the British are coming!!!”

Colonist - “ Sorry Hoss, can’t miss work. Let me know how you make out though.”

SgtHal75 is right NES. You guys need more Semper Fi and a whole lot less pissing up a rope at each other.

 

[kalash]

Information is powerful - get informed so that you can ask your legislators questions on these bills then question their response and provide counter arguments that follow fact and logic.

More importantly, provide talking points and responses for your legislators to use in discussion with other legislators.
Arm yourself with knowledge then transfer that knowledge to others.

"I've been a life-long democrat and supporter of gun control. I don't know anything about guns and don't really care anyways, since I just want power and control. But man, that pastera guy laid it all out so eloquently that I'm now a proud champion of the Second Amendment. I'm totally going to go against my base and my entire party and do what pastera said because he really gave me all the facts."
-No legislator ever.

If you think that they support gun control simply out of ignorance on the topic, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[HARRYM]

GOAL - Baker Admin Says No to Bruen

www.goal.org

 

[HARRYM]

AG Campbell Files Briefs in Support of Common Sense Gun Laws

Filings Defend Massachusetts Handgun Safety Regulations and Assault Weapons Ban

www.mass.gov

 

[B191299]

Yes. Because we are an ultra-minority of pro-2A voters, who are mostly old white males, in an overwhelmingly anti-2A state, that does not care about the opinions of old white males.

I’m sorry I don’t share your optimism.

I don't think we are as much of a minority as they think. In the blue-collar world, probably 50 percent or more are pro 2A. The problem is that the Union guys still mostly vote for the Dems.