HD.4420 State House and Boston Common Rally

[Picton]

This is the most powerful part - We need thousands of people ready to invest 5-10 minutes to make phone calls at the ready.
Blowing up the phones is how 4420 got shelved.

VERY much agree. A rally only affects these people and their staffs if they happen to be walking across the Common to Dunk's while people are out there with signs. Endless phone calls clog up their entire working day.

 

[Uzi2]

I'm not talking about the people stealing on the army's behalf. I'm talking about the people producing the stolen goods.

I think that if the Army comes and steals your cows, leaving you with no recourse, it's a stretch to say you're "supporting the war effort."

Along those lines, let's say a bus driver takes a load of NESers to this rally. He's an anti. It's a stretch to say he "supports" our efforts, even though he drove us there. He's doing it because he's paid to, or because his boss compelled him to.

The army didn't come and steal anyone's cows.

EDIT:
During the Revolutionary War, troops were indeed ordered not to take a family’s milk cow. This was done to ensure that the local population had a reliable source of milk and dairy products, which were essential for their sustenance and well-being.

By preserving the cows, the troops aimed to maintain good relations with the local population and avoid unnecessary hardship for the families. The milk provided a valuable source of nutrition, especially for children and the elderly.

This policy also helped to prevent potential conflicts between the troops and the local population. By respecting the property and livelihoods of the civilians, the troops aimed to foster goodwill and cooperation, which could be crucial in gaining support for their cause.

 

[pastera]

I also was there in 2016 with my then 12yo son. Best thing to come out of that rally was showing my son his right to peacefully assemble. Otherwise, it changed nothing. It gave us all a sense of doing something, but really didn't move the needle at all.

I did see my Rep Scanlon at the North Attleboro Block Party last Wed and gave him a piece of my mind. All I got back in response was a nervous twitch and "were working to make something more palatable" canned, repeated response.

The best action is not to read them the riot act but to ask them what they believe are the top three items in the bill - Ask how the bill addresses those issues and be prepared to listen then counter with facts.
The big one that was told to me was "ghost guns" - they seemed shocked when I asked them to define a ghost gun and didn't have a clear understanding.
The discussion moved on when I set the stage for two separate discussions
1 - obliterated serial numbers: This discussion was closed out with a simple statement that it is already covered by federal law and gun owners aren't disputing it.
2 - Unserialized guns: This conversation broke down into two sub discussions

A - Pre 68 guns: They were well aware that this was an issue and said it was part of the discussion. When I discussed family heirlooms and high value collectables that would be destroyed by the bill they begrudgingly agreed that the bill was flawed.
B - Personally Manufactured Firearms: This brought up 3d printed guns and the need to serialize all components. Unfortunately there wasn't time to go into detail but I was able to push that I am an engineer that uses 3d prints and printing a working gun is not a straightforward task therefore AND that bans are still unlikely to deter criminals per the outcry from multiple chiefs of police.


Part of our problem is that we allow the "Come and Take It" screamers to be the loudest voice where the real power is in those that quietly and firmly declare in cordial discussions "I will not comply and this is why" then go on to give objective and unemotional arguments as to why the proposal is bad.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I don’t even know I post here. So many special little boys.

We were thinking the same thing.

"I've been a life-long democrat and supporter of gun control. I don't know anything about guns and don't really care anyways, since I just want power and control. But man, that pastera guy laid it all out so eloquently that I'm now a proud champion of the Second Amendment. I'm totally going to go against my base and my entire party and do what pastera said because he really gave me all the facts."
-No legislator ever.

If you think that they support gun control simply out of ignorance on the topic, I have a bridge to sell you.

C'mon. He tried. I have to hand it to him for that.

I ended up emailing my congresscritters. My rep wants to meet with me in town when she's in office hours. That's a plus. I've got no faith, but I'd rather spend 20 min maybe getting a smidge through than to not.

 

[EMTDAD]

The best action is not to read them the riot act but to ask them what they believe are the top three items in the bill - Ask how the bill addresses those issues and be prepared to listen then counter with facts.
The big one that was told to me was "ghost guns" - they seemed shocked when I asked them to define a ghost gun and didn't have a clear understanding.
The discussion moved on when I set the stage for two separate discussions
1 - obliterated serial numbers: This discussion was closed out with a simple statement that it is already covered by federal law and gun owners aren't disputing it.
2 - Unserialized guns: This conversation broke down into two sub discussions

A - Pre 68 guns: They were well aware that this was an issue and said it was part of the discussion. When I discussed family heirlooms and high value collectables that would be destroyed by the bill they begrudgingly agreed that the bill was flawed.
B - Personally Manufactured Firearms: This brought up 3d printed guns and the need to serialize all components. Unfortunately there wasn't time to go into detail but I was able to push that I am an engineer that uses 3d prints and printing a working gun is not a straightforward task therefore AND that bans are still unlikely to deter criminals per the outcry from multiple chiefs of police.


Part of our problem is that we allow the "Come and Take It" screamers to be the loudest voice where the real power is in those that quietly and firmly declare in cordial discussions "I will not comply and this is why" then go on to give objective and unemotional arguments as to why the proposal is bad.

yeah.. I wasn't going to have a full blown debate with him on the street.. I wasn't loud or ranting, I just let him know in about 5 min that I had emailed him, I vehemently disagree with everything in the bill, and it should be trashed, 100%. Nothing salvageable in it.

he just looked at me like a deer in headlights vomiting up that same verbiage.

 

[GL2020]

I also was there in 2016 with my then 12yo son. Best thing to come out of that rally was showing my son his right to peacefully assemble. Otherwise, it changed nothing. It gave us all a sense of doing something, but really didn't move the needle at all.

I did see my Rep Scanlon at the North Attleboro Block Party last Wed and gave him a piece of my mind. All I got back in response was a nervous twitch and "were working to make something more palatable" canned, repeated response.

I spoke to him too. He thinks it can be fixed. I said the best outcome was to scrap it. I also offered to take him to the range anytime he’s ready for some actual experience holding a firearm instead of hype.

 

[pastera]

When your critter says the bill can be fixed - ask what needs fixing, what problem that it is addressing and how they believe it can be addressed without causing harm to law abiding gun owners.

This is when actually reading the bill helps a lot since your critter very likely has never gotten past the highlights of what their assistant was told the bill was about.

If all you have is talking points from our side, don't bother since they already know all of them and the anti's have given them counters to "our lies"
You need to be able to articulate what the bill actually says and why it needs to be squashed.

 

[Uzi2]

The best action is not to read them the riot act but to ask them what they believe are the top three items in the bill - Ask how the bill addresses those issues and be prepared to listen then counter with facts.
The big one that was told to me was "ghost guns" - they seemed shocked when I asked them to define a ghost gun and didn't have a clear understanding.
The discussion moved on when I set the stage for two separate discussions
1 - obliterated serial numbers: This discussion was closed out with a simple statement that it is already covered by federal law and gun owners aren't disputing it.
2 - Unserialized guns: This conversation broke down into two sub discussions

A - Pre 68 guns: They were well aware that this was an issue and said it was part of the discussion. When I discussed family heirlooms and high value collectables that would be destroyed by the bill they begrudgingly agreed that the bill was flawed.
B - Personally Manufactured Firearms: This brought up 3d printed guns and the need to serialize all components. Unfortunately there wasn't time to go into detail but I was able to push that I am an engineer that uses 3d prints and printing a working gun is not a straightforward task therefore AND that bans are still unlikely to deter criminals per the outcry from multiple chiefs of police.


Part of our problem is that we allow the "Come and Take It" screamers to be the loudest voice where the real power is in those that quietly and firmly declare in cordial discussions "I will not comply and this is why" then go on to give objective and unemotional arguments as to why the proposal is bad.

Ya, that "real power" of "quietly and firmly declaring" anything has really worked wonders so far.

Wake up from your dream already!!!! The only thing that is going to convince government to change their ways is the threat of being the next one with a toe tag on their right foot or their home being the next one to be hit with ten Molotov cocktails in the dead of night while they sleep.

No country anywhere on the planet has EVER rid itself of tyranny with soft spoken words.

 

[pastera]

Ya, that "real power" of "quietly and firmly declaring" anything has really worked wonders so far.

Wake up from your dream already!!!! The only thing that is going to convince government to change their ways is the threat of being the next one with a toe tag on their right foot or their home being the next one to be hit with ten Molotov cocktails in the dead of night while they sleep.

No country anywhere on the planet has EVER rid itself of tyranny with soft spoken words.

So do nothing until the seal on the last box is broken - Is that your plan?

How do you think we got to this point? It is because what I am saying actually works and has been continuously employed by the left for at least the last 50 years to get us to this point.
One must slow the juggernaut before it can be turned around - we allowed the left to gain too much momentum because the effort was too great.
We have three major SCOTUS wins and one minor but important on our side along now. While the liberal courts are trying to find ways around Bruen or simply ignoring it there are many courts creating clear and correct case law supporting the 2nd because of Bruen.
It takes time to move through the courts so we need to be vigilant in order to stop new infringements, however obvious, from taking time away from fighting the existing ones.

 

[GL2020]

When your critter says the bill can be fixed - ask what needs fixing, what problem that it is addressing and how they believe it can be addressed without causing harm to law abiding gun owners.

This is when actually reading the bill helps a lot since your critter very likely has never gotten past the highlights of what their assistant was told the bill was about.

If all you have is talking points from our side, don't bother since they already know all of them and the anti's have given them counters to "our lies"
You need to be able to articulate what the bill actually says and why it needs to be squashed.

I want to hear the stats on the number of crimes/incidents (other than lawful self-defense) that involve licensed gun owners in MA.
The numbers are typically exceedingly low....typically lower than the stats for crimes involving police.
So the natural question is "How is making it harder on them going to help anything?"

When they talk about registration/serializations....who can tell me how many crimes have been prevented or solved because of registration? The question is asked, but never answered

Look at the "Moms demand Action Attention" website and it typically talks about recent shootings in Springfield, Worcester, Boston, <wherever>. How would this or any other law help that, even hypothetically? Since we've already established licensed gun owners are not the problem.

MA does things based on feelings instead of actual facts.

 

[GL2020]

I also was there in 2016 with my then 12yo son. Best thing to come out of that rally was showing my son his right to peacefully assemble. Otherwise, it changed nothing. It gave us all a sense of doing something, but really didn't move the needle at all.

I did see my Rep Scanlon at the North Attleboro Block Party last Wed and gave him a piece of my mind. All I got back in response was a nervous twitch and "were working to make something more palatable" canned, repeated response.

He needs a serious challenge too.

I've known the kid since he was 14. He was, believe it or not, a republican at one time. Involved in helping form a young republican club at North High, along with his other famous young political democrat party switcher, Patrick Reynolds.

The only reason he got in is his real opponent withdrew with only a few weeks before the election...leaving a qualified, but unprepared, and under-funded opponent to take him on. His seat had been Republican since the days of Joe Martin and Margaret Heckler.

No disrespect to who he is or what he has accomplished, but his only "real" job was working at the local McDonalds....he went from being a student to working his way through local politics, to the state house. It's his highest paying job to date.

I look at him and he's the same age as my Son...who I'd be concerned about leaving a puppy with for more than a few hours. Just signs on to whatever the latest Democrat agenda is.

 

[Sparky1911]

So do nothing until the seal on the last box is broken - Is that your plan?

How do you think we got to this point? It is because what I am saying actually works and has been continuously employed by the left for at least the last 50 years to get us to this point.
One must slow the juggernaut before it can be turned around - we allowed the left to gain too much momentum because the effort was too great.
We have three major SCOTUS wins and one minor but important on our side along now. While the liberal courts are trying to find ways around Bruen or simply ignoring it there are many courts creating clear and correct case law supporting the 2nd because of Bruen.
It takes time to move through the courts so we need to be vigilant in order to stop new infringements, however obvious, from taking time away from fighting the existing ones.

No need in going back and forth with these Neanderthals. Their brain isn’t big enough to comprehend THINGS. most things actually.
Your literally wasting your time

 

[Grendizer138]

No need in going back and forth with these Neanderthals. Their brain isn’t big enough to comprehend THINGS. most things actually.
Your literally wasting your time

Keep posting, your doing great!

 

[Sparky1911]

Keep posting, your doing great!

Trying to step my game up. I’ll get there

 

[Uzi2]

So do nothing until the seal on the last box is broken - Is that your plan?

How do you think we got to this point? It is because what I am saying actually works and has been continuously employed by the left for at least the last 50 years to get us to this point.
One must slow the juggernaut before it can be turned around - we allowed the left to gain too much momentum because the effort was too great.
We have three major SCOTUS wins and one minor but important on our side along now. While the liberal courts are trying to find ways around Bruen or simply ignoring it there are many courts creating clear and correct case law supporting the 2nd because of Bruen.
It takes time to move through the courts so we need to be vigilant in order to stop new infringements, however obvious, from taking time away from fighting the existing ones.

Has nothing to do with "my plan". Your plan hasn't worked to date and given the propensity of leftists to simply defy court decisions with impunity, there's nothing standing in their way for any future legislation to further their tyranny.

I'm stating that no country anywhere on the planet earth EVER threw off tyranny by "quietly and firmly" declaring ANYTHING. Those who successfully threw off tyranny, told the tyrants "this" is the last straw, then started stacking the bodies as high as was necessary to vanquish the tyranny. They killed all those who the tyrant sent, then hunted down and killed the tyrants themselves when they had nobody to defend their sorry asses.

You will NEVER get a Masschusetts legislator to turn around from their anti gun attitudes and legislating activities. They will happily screw you into the ground, head first, and laugh about it every chance they get with their friends. They openly tell superior courts to go fvck themselves and there is ZERO consequences for their actions.

You've lost your mind if you think this shit is going to stop with the issuance of any piece of paper short of a death certificate.

 

[Uzi2]

No need in going back and forth with these Neanderthals. Their brain isn’t big enough to comprehend THINGS. most things actually.
Your literally wasting your time

Go crawl back under your rock there son.....you've not even been aware of the shit going on in Massachusetts long enough to even have an opinion here.

 

[1MassFFL]

Boston park regulations, section 2 (m):

Section 2​

No person shall, in any public park (including any boundary road thereof), or other public place (including any parkway) under the control of the Parks and Recreation Commission, except under the auspices of public authority: (m) have in any such park or place, except a boundary road or parkway on which there are dwellings, any firearm or destructive weapon;​

Parks rules and regulations

Below, you can find the official rules and regulations for public parks and other public places, including boundary roads and parkways, under the jurisdiction of the Parks and Recreation Commission.

www.boston.gov

Just browsed the "rules" - pretty sure I saw everything but the galloping horses they forbid while I was there.

I am unclear why my 2A rights end at the common fence - perhaps someone can tell me why

 

[kalash]

So do nothing until the seal on the last box is broken - Is that your plan?

I don't think that's it at all. Personally, my "doing something" is supporting orgs that will be fighting these infringements in the courts because that's what I believe to be effective. Your "doing something" of going to a rally is a waste of time, imho. I'm not faulting you for it or anything, in fact I appreciate you doing what you believe might help, but it's not something I'm going to participate in. Same thing with my critters - I've talked to them, they DGAF.

 

[pastera]

I don't think that's it at all. Personally, my "doing something" is supporting orgs that will be fighting these infringements in the courts because that's what I believe to be effective. Your "doing something" of going to a rally is a waste of time, imho. I'm not faulting you for it or anything, in fact I appreciate you doing what you believe might help, but it's not something I'm going to participate in. Same thing with my critters - I've talked to them, they DGAF.

Did you read my posts?
I was very clear that the rally was preaching to the choir - the real work is in crushing the phone lines and office hours of all of the congress critters.

And I agree your critters don't care about your opinion, but they do care if they can't do anything other than answer calls from angry people being a continuous and unavoidable thorn in their side

 

[ridleyman]

I went and hung around for an hour or so, but the sparse attendance was very disappointing. They should have done it on a weekend, for one, and people should be shamed if they just whine and don't do anything about it.

 

[bigred460]

I went and hung around for an hour or so, but the sparse attendance was very disappointing. They should have done it on a weekend, for one, and people should be shamed if they just whine and don't do anything about it.

I wouldn't be interested in going on the weekend, the legislators are not there. The rally is just fluff, the reason I went was to go into the statehouse and speak with the legislators.

 

[ridleyman]

I wouldn't be interested in going on the weekend, the legislators are not there. The rally is just fluff, the reason I went was to go into the statehouse and speak with the legislators.

Were you able to? If so, do you think they listened?

 

[Picton]

The army didn't come and steal anyone's cows.

Tell me you don't understand how the 18th century worked without telling me you don't understand how the 18th century worked.

 

[richc]

Cops know that legal gun owners are zero threat to the public at large.

Even those that don't comply with the BS laws still are no threat so why should cops bother.

They were pretty laid back in 2013 also and that time we weren't on the common to the majority was armed.

Chatted with a local cop I know from the range.

We were talking about magazine capacities. He said one of the first things they teach you at the academy is to determine if the person they're intereacting with is armed. If so, ask them where the gun is and to keep their hands away from it. Ok, cool...

He said to find out what capacity magazine they are carrying would require them to either ask the person to take out the gun, or to disarm them, to check the magazine. That is so contrary to officer safety to check a damn magazine capacity.

Finally he said we don't need to prove it is preban, the DA/LEO has to prove it is postban.

Truthfully most don't care with lawful gun owners. They only care with dangerous people.

 

[pastera]

Chatted with a local cop I know from the range.

We were talking about magazine capacities. He said one of the first things they teach you at the academy is to determine if the person they're intereacting with is armed. If so, ask them where the gun is and to keep their hands away from it. Ok, cool...

He said to find out what capacity magazine they are carrying would require them to either ask the person to take out the gun, or to disarm them, to check the magazine. That is so contrary to officer safety to check a damn magazine capacity.

Finally he said we don't need to prove it is preban, the DA/LEO has to prove it is postban.

Truthfully most don't care with lawful gun owners. They only care with dangerous people.

Unfortunately they will just say 'from my extensive experience in law enforcement dealing with firearms, it is my opinion that the magazine was produced after..."
And now you need to supply an expert to testify at a cost of around $10k.

 

[HARRYM]

Hmmmmm....well....since 1968 when the Democrats went for a damn near total gun ban, revealing their true intentions, how many gun owners here, and for that matter across the entire country, continued, and continue, to vote for Democrats?

Roughly close to 95% of gun owners in America have never supported any gun rights organization in any way shape or form.

I give a thumbs up to all who ventured into Boston Wednesday but as I have said here from day one the call to action should have happened decades ago.

Massachusetts was lost to the Communists years ago and the only real hope we have is Federal action. Hell, and even then the Left has stated they don't care what the SCOTUS says.

And those across this country, that can't stop pulling the blue lever, aren't helping matters.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Unfortunately they will just say 'from my extensive experience in law enforcement dealing with firearms, it is my opinion that the magazine was produced after..."
And now you need to supply an expert to testify at a cost of around $10k.

I don't charge that much!

 

[bigred460]

Were you able to? If so, do you think they listened?

Mostly aids and staff. Wednesday was the the first formal session since July 31st in the House of Representatives, many of the Reps were not in their offices. I created a one pager as a leave behind, left that and the one GOAL had created with my name and contact info for the Reps. Sat down with Senator Mark, had a good conversation. He told me he would have voted against 4420 in it's present form. As stated here, the big topic for the legislators is "ghost guns". Yes I believe the Senator listened, he seemed very interested in what I had to say. Didn't get to see Senator Velis, no biggie, I have his cell number, already spoken to him before on the matter. I will be following up with John again since he is on the working group in the Senate with Senator Creem looking at gun legislation. Senator Mark did tell me though that the Senate is waiting to see what the House comes up with.

 

[pastera]

I don't charge that much!

I've heard $10k mentioned as the cost for expert testimony in firearms cases on other subjects - just assumed that it was the going rate and since you're going to pay to stay out of jail, shopping around would not be in one's self interest.

 

[rogersmithiii]

That is a terrifying response when you think about it.

This was posted in the Active Response Weekend Knowledge Dump for 9/29. I read it every week.

Surviving Flash Mobs

armedcitizensnetwork.org

The violence is now state sponsored, and anyone who might attack a second amendment rally will be let off, while those who defended themselves will be prosecuted. Think Hiter's Brown Shirts.

Staying away from this sort of in-person event makes sense.