High end over under

[pizzerman]

Can anyone explain why i need to drop thousands on a high end o/u

I have a sub 500 yildiz o/u i love I'm just curious what an expensive one does better

sure, we can explain "why you need" to do a lot of things, how much time you got? lol

 

[Dave @ Villen Tactical]

Can anyone explain why i need to drop thousands on a high end o/u

I have a sub 500 yildiz o/u i love I'm just curious what an expensive one does better

A gun’s cost isn’t about how well it fits you, or how well you will do with it. It’s more about quality materials, life expectancy, labor costs, how ornate it is, and extras.

A fully adjustable no-nonsense trap gun from B. Rizzini will last you a lifetime and can be had for under $3000. Add exhibition grade wood, gold inlays, and hand engraving, and you could push $17k. You won’t shoot any better with it, but you will have a beautiful piece of art, that will also crush clays.

Dave

 

[pcgod]

Lmao

Thats fair

So what dollar range do they start fitting them...i have long arms so that would probably be beneficial...for example i cant stand sks's the length of pull is just too short

I had a bird my dog flushed yesterday make it to the tree line before it dropped... I'd be ok if the difference between that bird dropping 15 feet away and making it to the trees to fall and never be found again was an improved shotty

1st thing get pointing dogs so birds tend not to flush. I will say as I have gotten older the birds do seem to drop further away. It might be I am not as fast as I was at 25 years old or maybe I need to drop 7k or so to buy a high dollar gun? What do ya think....

 

[240Geezer]

Screw that. Bring whatever you shoot best.

I'm equally sucky with everything but the VEPR clone was fun to do five round pull, pull, pull, pull, pulls.

 

[jkelly1229]

1st thing get pointing dogs so birds tend not to flush. I will say as I have gotten older the birds do seem to drop further away. It might be I am not as fast as I was at 25 years old or maybe I need to drop 7k or so to buy a high dollar gun? What do ya think....

It was his first time out he did pretty good this time pointed for one didnt for the other

Happy as a pig in shit when he got his first one tho

 

[Broc Tuah]

We are fiesty this morning

I've gotten to 10k on 2 different guns

A glock and a canik... they both looked pretty much new after

I dont shoot 1911s because i hate the platform

But trps are widely considered some of the best 1911's you can buy. And the fbi hrt uses springfield 1911's granted they went custom with them

I think they would hold up just fine.

I had a kimber 10mm with 12k rounds on it looked great

Delta elite that was 30 years old with thousands of rounds through it was fine as well

Most off the shelf guns run just fine for a long time.

Now if you want to spend 3-5k on a 1911/2011 to make the platform less shitty do you boo...

But the every day plane jane options starting at around 1k will do the same thing for pretty much as long as the high end ones

Let's also remember that 10K through a range toy and 10K through a competition gun, depending on the competition, are two different things.

Like my 929, when I used it in USPSA, I beat the sh*t out of it. I was loading as fast as possible, I was not nice to that cylinder. However, I don't do the same to my range fun revolvers. I also replaced half of the 929 because the factory SW parts can't handle it.

However, this might not apply to a trap gun since that shooting is pretty relaxed.

 

[jkelly1229]

Let's also remember that 10K through a range toy and 10K through a competition gun, depending on the competition, are two different things.

Like my 929, when I used it in USPSA, I beat the sh*t out of it. I was loading as fast as possible, I was not nice to that cylinder. However, I don't do the same to my range fun revolvers. I also replaced half of the 929 because the factory SW parts can't handle it.

However, this might not apply to a trap gun since that shooting is pretty relaxed.

I won't even pretend to know about wheel guns

But if you're paying 12-1500 for a steel frame 1911 the slide and the frame will last just as long on a trp as a nighthawk

Sure some of the springs may wear a little faster with a lower tier manufacturer

And a wilson barrel may go 50k rounds to springfields 45k

But to dismiss them out of hand like most manufacturers are shit and you need a high end gun isn't factual either

 

[jkelly1229]

Let's also remember that 10K through a range toy and 10K through a competition gun, depending on the competition, are two different things.

Like my 929, when I used it in USPSA, I beat the sh*t out of it. I was loading as fast as possible, I was not nice to that cylinder. However, I don't do the same to my range fun revolvers. I also replaced half of the 929 because the factory SW parts can't handle it.

However, this might not apply to a trap gun since that shooting is pretty relaxed.

Ill put it a different way

Is a 226 x5 going to last 150% longer than a 226 sao legion or whatever the difference in price is?

No its not

 

[robjax]

if you do not spend at least 15k on a good O/U you will probably not hit any targets.

The more you spend, the more you hit. You have to. otherwise you'll be laughed off the range.

 

[Realtor MA]

fyi you don't have to spend a ton of money to find a really good shotgun. I found a Krieghoff Model 32 at cabella's back in January for $2300. Considering it's age it's in great shape. I grabbed it because I thought it was a good deal.

 

[pizzerman]

For years I was shooting trap with a Mossberg Silver Reserve II that worked very well for me. Many people said it was a crap gun but it worked well for me. Some years later I bought a Browning O/U at a gun store sale. It’s a great shotgun but it doesn’t shoot any better then the much cheaper Mossberg did. So I guess expensive doesn’t mean better.

if you add the adjustable comb and but stock to it and have it fit to you buy a gunsmith the difference in mounting the gun consistently and braking targets is night and day. wish i knew that before i bought my browning citori without, but had a gunsmith fit and add those 2 features. my gun (including the gunwork) was significantly cheaper than the trap max or golden pigeons but i shoot it great (because of consistent gun mount)

 

[Broc Tuah]

Just use a trench gun and show those FUDDs how it is done. If it was good enough to scare a government into trying to make it illegal, it is good enough for clays.

 

[jamison55]

All I can speak to is my experience. I‘m the cheapest mofo in the world. In my trap journey I went from a beat up old Walmart Mossberg 500 to an inexpensive older Beretta auto that I couldn’t hit a barn with to a CZ all American trap. That CZ improved my game immensely. Within a month with that gun I shot my first 25. Unfortunately, about 3k rounds in, the hammer spring broke. Nothing worse than holding up the line while you try to diagnose your malfunctioning gun. They guys I have shot with don’t care how expensive your gun is, but they get real grumpy when the rhythm of the line gets messed up because Johnny cant get his gun to shoot. So I bit the bullet and bought a Beretta O/U. I really wish I could have purchased a reliable gun cheaper, but I shoot trap every week, and the Beretta goes bang every time.

 

[jkelly1229]

Also

I'm more interested in hunting

Not really trap lol

Sorry to devolve this into a trap discussion

 

[Soundwave]

Just shot my second 25 with my dad's old Churchill Chapin 40+ year old shotgun. God knows how many rounds are through it but it keeps running. Been trying to find a browning 725 s3 to replace it. I may just have it refurbished though.

 

[Mark from ?]

Just use a trench gun and show those FUDDs how it is done. If it was good enough to scare a government into trying to make it illegal, it is good enough for clays.

We have a young dude at our club that uses an 1897 trench he built from parts for skeet. Whatever is our general feeling about it, cool. Hes not shooting even close to 20, but then I could hand him my Browning and he wouldn't shoot 20 either. But if he handed me his trench and it fit half ass....likely I could shoot 20. Because, I shoot a lot and my average is over 20 with almost any gun I pickup. Unless it doesn't fit me. The ones that don't fit me get jettisoned way before 1K rounds....I know it immediately.

We use glocks with rat shot at station 8 sometimes too. We shoot from the hip, off the pad to get closer to the house...all stuff that would make FUDDs brain melt.

Anyone that gives a fxck what people use is a toolbag.

 

[240Geezer]

Also

I'm more interested in hunting

Not really trap lol

Sorry to devolve this into a trap discussion

Oh sorry. Didn't get the hunting part.

 

[jamison55]

Also

I'm more interested in hunting

Not really trap lol

Sorry to devolve this into a trap discussion

i think the reason there’s so much trap talk is because that’s where you see most of the really expensive guns. If you’re a hunter, shoot what makes you happy and puts food in the pot. You’re never in your lifetime gonna shoot the volume that the average trap guy does in a year. On the rare occasion that I hunt these days, I bring the old Mossberg.

 

[Mark from ?]

Also

I'm more interested in hunting

Not really trap lol

Sorry to devolve this into a trap discussion

Hunting...totally different as far as the discussion goes, and the Turkish gun is 100% as fine as the fancy one, its all in what you like, are willing to risk banging around, getting wet, scratched, or dropped.

Round count barely matters unless your rich enough to be shooting birds at game preserves every week, and if you are, then you can afford expensive if you want it. 25 bird hunts at Addieville cost the price of at least one Turkish O/U.

Don't be the guy who spends his kids college money on a high end O/U, then has an aneurism because they accidentally dropped it on a rock is all I can say. If you can't say....fxck, I scratched it and move on without having a bad day because of it. You spent too much on your hunting iron. Personally I draw the line around 2K.....that's just me. Thats not to say I bang shit around that's 2K and below, even my shitter guns are in great shape for the most part. But if something happened by accident, I'd move on from it pretty easily.

Same reason I'm not driving around in a 60K truck or car........I'll drive the 30K one.

Others....may feel differently and its their money. No judgement.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But if you're paying 12-1500 for a steel frame 1911 the slide and the frame will last just as long on a trp as a nighthawk

That is hard to say.

First off, define "last as long". Are you referring to the ability to stay tight over time, or is it OK for the gun to loosen up a bit and still be within tradtional 1911 specs for tightness? With very high end guns this can make a difference.

Stainless slides and frames are not as wear resistant as high quality carbon steel, especially with something like DLC (diamong like carbon) coating. The stainless slides/frames will lose their tightness sooner.

And as to carbon steel, there are various grades and type of me metal.
- Forged vs. Machined from Bar Stock vs. Cast. Add in Metal Injected Moulding for the smaller parts as an option
- Steel grade. 4140 is good, but 4340 is just a bit harder (and wears out machine tools a bit quicker)
- I have seen a big name smith build a gun using 4340 hot rolled steel for a frame. Yikes!!!
- Then there is the matter of heat and/or cryogenic treating

But, paying extra for a big name may increase your odds of getting a higher grade/type of steel, but is no guarantee.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Don't be the guy who spends his kids college money on a high end O/U, then has an aneurism because they accidentally dropped it on a rock is all I can say. If you can't say....fxck, I scratched it and move on without having a bad day because of it. You spent too much.

If that happens, your life insurance can replace the money you spend on the gun so your kids can still go to college.

 

[jamison55]

I will say, though, that my Beretta Semi is the softest shooting 12ga I have ever fired. My 15yo son uses it to shoot trap with me, and it’s reliable too. Have a few k rounds through it, and I’ve cleaned it maybe 3 times. If I were hunting birds a lot, I would probably buy a plastic stocked Beretta A300/400 or a Benelli Super Black Eagle just because they are so damn pleasant on the shoulder and reliable as income tax.

 

[Supermoto]

I won't even pretend to know about wheel guns

But if you're paying 12-1500 for a steel frame 1911 the slide and the frame will last just as long on a trp as a nighthawk

Sure some of the springs may wear a little faster with a lower tier manufacturer

And a wilson barrel may go 50k rounds to springfields 45k

But to dismiss them out of hand like most manufacturers are shit and you need a high end gun isn't factual either

How the gun is fitted is the most important factor to longevity. Lower end and mid range guns are not as fitted well. That stresses the parts and things break and wear out sooner. Same with a O/U

 

[Mark from ?]

If that happens, you life insurance can replace the money you spend on the gun so your kids can still go to college.

Life insurance?

That money got spent on ammo. OOPS.

 

[Mark from ?]

That is hard to say.

First off, define "last as long". Are you referring to the ability to stay tight over time, or is it OK for the gun to loosen up a bit and still be within tradtional 1911 specs for tightness? With very high end guns this can make a difference.

Stainless slides and frames are not as wear resistant as high quality carbon steel, especially with something like DLC (diamong like carbon) coating. The stainless slides/frames will lose their tightness sooner.

And as to carbon steel, there are various grades and type of me metal.
- Forged vs. Machined from Bar Stock vs. Cast. Add in Metal Injected Moulding for the smaller parts as an option
- Steel grade. 4140 is good, but 4340 is just a bit harder (and wears out machine tools a bit quicker)
- I have seen a big name smith build a gun using 4340 hot rolled steel for a frame. Yikes!!!
- Then there is the matter of heat and/or cryogenic treating

But, paying extra for a big name may increase your odds of getting a higher grade/type of steel, but is no guarantee.

So the Turkish BRG 9mm elite for 190 dollars is good then? Made out of 4340! Winning!

 

[whacko]

Just use a trench gun and show those FUDDs how it is done. If it was good enough to scare a government into trying to make it illegal, it is good enough for clays.

Even better bring a .410 lever action Henry and bust 23 or 24 for a pair of rounds. I did that 2 weekends in a row......next time I came one old bugger asked the guy that runs trap "are you going to let that guy use a .410 today?". Seriously.

 

[Mark from ?]

I will say, though, that my Beretta Semi is the softest shooting 12ga I have ever fired. My 15yo son uses it to shoot trap with me, and it’s reliable too. Have a few k rounds through it, and I’ve cleaned it maybe 3 times. If I were hunting birds a lot, I would probably buy a plastic stocked Beretta A300/400 or a Benelli Super Black Eagle just because they are so damn pleasant on the shoulder and reliable as income tax.

Me I'd buy like 4 Impala pluses with that money in every color flavor and throw them on the ground.

 

[jamison55]

Me I'd buy like 4 Impala pluses with that money in every color flavor and throw them on the ground.

I’d never heard of the Impala series. Internet seems to regard them highly. If it runs, I’m not one to crap on it because of its brand name. Heck, I have (and likely always will) drive a Honda cuz they just run.

And my Canik SFX is the best $500 I’ve ever spent on anything.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

So the Turkish BRG 9mm elite for 190 dollars is good then? Made out of 4340! Winning!

4340 is definitely a good sign.

 

[DarthRevan]

I dont keep a "round count".....but I know I've already used 8000 primers on my bench this year and I don't really have a butt load of reloads in my stockpile......I consider myself an average volume shooter.

Granted....that's not shotgun ammo I'm reloading. Trap I shoot 3 to 4 rounds a month with whatever I find on sale and I hit 24 to 25 every round. Would a 7k gun benefit me? Probably if I shot 8 rounds a week or more.....then the quality of the gun would show as far as longevity of higher round counts.....and would be mire comfortable to shoot I'm sure which would make multiple rounds in a day more pleasant and keep the score higher. But that's really my point......if you shoot trap 2 times a month you don't NEED a 7k dollar gun.......but if you want one.......thats on the individual. There are many "trapazoids" that have 5k guns.....that break 18 average.....and think a 7k gun will help them break 23......when I'm thinking that they need to probably just learn how to f***ing shoot trap cuz there are plenty of guys out there that can break 23 or 24 with whatever shotgun they are handed and only shoot trap a couple times a month.

Willing to bet you would be wrong. You're probably like top 30% based on numbers pulled out of my ass, if not higher.

with my limited number of trips this year i know i shoot more that half the gun owners out there.