High end over under

[groundscrapers]

Can anyone explain why i need to drop thousands on a high end o/u

I have a sub 500 yildiz o/u i love I'm just curious what an expensive one does better

its like your budget gun is a civic, nice production guns are like mercedes, handcrafted and hand fit guns are like bugatti's. Its a function of performance, build quality, scarcity, & demand. It will take the average joe loads of trigger time to be able to tell the difference between most high end guns and a regular production rig. My precision bolt gun in the hands of someone who only shoots a box of 30-06 a year wouldn't feel like much more than a light trigger and a heavy gun. They can't appreciate the nuance because they just aren't there yet.

 

[groundscrapers]

Willing to bet you would be wrong. You're probably like top 30% based on numbers pulled out of my ass, if not higher.

with my limited number of trips this year i know i shoot more that half the gun owners out there.

top 1%. Most gun owners don't shoot their guns.

 

[icyclefar]

I shoot about 15,000 shells a year at clay targets.

The K-80 isn't the expensive part of this hobby.

 

[Broc]

Willing to bet you would be wrong. You're probably like top 30% based on numbers pulled out of my ass, if not higher.

with my limited number of trips this year i know i shoot more that half the gun owners out there.

At 8K rounds, he is top 1%.

Most people are lucky of they see the range once per month and shoot a couple of boxes.

 

[rep308]

if you do not spend at least 15k on a good O/U you will probably not hit any targets.

The more you spend, the more you hit. You have to. otherwise you'll be laughed off the range.

Would that it were, I’d be in the olympics

 

[Bodhisattva]

They probably kill 7 pigmys trying to bring the tree they cut down in the rainforest for the wood they use in the dash board

Does that count the funerals too?

Like what upgrades am i getting if i buy a 2-5 k over under for hunting and clays

Better quality materials, way better fit and finish. Those go a long way.

While I love my ATI Crusader, I know it’s a cheap throwaway gun that is eventually gonna break. It’s got cheaper softer wood, and the finish is terrible. If I shoot clays or hunt in the rain, it gets sticky. Not to mention it’s wearing off in certain spots. The fit of the wood isn’t that great. The blueing is not too bad. The welds on the rib are ugly. The trigger is rough and always has been. It’s smoothed out considerably since new, but it still kinda gritty. The opening/closing of the action was god awful when new, but again, still not great. The receiver is aluminum, all of the small parts are mim. And about every 100-150 rounds, I get a misfire. Eventually I replace it with something nicer. But it won’t be crazy. Most likely a CZ. My wife’s Redhead Premier is nice, and I’ve kinda got a thing for the better quality Turkish guns

 

[jkelly1229]

its like your budget gun is a civic, nice production guns are like mercedes, handcrafted and hand fit guns are like bugatti's. Its a function of performance, build quality, scarcity, & demand. It will take the average joe loads of trigger time to be able to tell the difference between most high end guns and a regular production rig. My precision bolt gun in the hands of someone who only shoots a box of 30-06 a year wouldn't feel like much more than a light trigger and a heavy gun. They can't appreciate the nuance because they just aren't there yet.

I guess... maybe it depends on what you shoot?

I can tell the difference between my pws or my danny and an Anderson

So maybe its just unfamiliar with this style of gun

Does that count the funerals too?


Better quality materials, way better fit and finish. Those go a long way.

While I love my ATI Crusader, I know it’s a cheap throwaway gun that is eventually gonna break. It’s got cheaper softer wood, and the finish is terrible. If I shoot clays or hunt in the rain, it gets sticky. Not to mention it’s wearing off in certain spots. The fit of the wood isn’t that great. The blueing is not too bad. The welds on the rib are ugly. The trigger is rough and always has been. It’s smoothed out considerably since new, but it still kinda gritty. The opening/closing of the action was god awful when new, but again, still not great. The receiver is aluminum, all of the small parts are mim. And about every 100-150 rounds, I get a misfire. Eventually I replace it with something nicer. But it won’t be crazy. Most likely a CZ. My wife’s Redhead Premier is nice, and I’ve kinda got a thing for the better quality Turkish guns

Me too lol

But id cry if i did what i did to my yildiz the other day to a 5k gun so i wanted to see if there are reasons for them in the field

Trap I at least understand you can get a nice one to show off because your not slogging it through shit

 

[Asaltweapon]

All I can speak to is my experience. I‘m the cheapest mofo in the world. In my trap journey I went from a beat up old Walmart Mossberg 500 to an inexpensive older Beretta auto that I couldn’t hit a barn with to a CZ all American trap. That CZ improved my game immensely. Within a month with that gun I shot my first 25. Unfortunately, about 3k rounds in, the hammer spring broke. Nothing worse than holding up the line while you try to diagnose your malfunctioning gun. They guys I have shot with don’t care how expensive your gun is, but they get real grumpy when the rhythm of the line gets messed up because Johnny cant get his gun to shoot. So I bit the bullet and bought a Beretta O/U. I really wish I could have purchased a reliable gun cheaper, but I shoot trap every week, and the Beretta goes bang every time.

Don’t even get started on rhythm.

 

[sig shooter]

Why do think they are pretending?....maybe they are fxcking rich and aren't in debt and paid cash for their gun, and it isn't a status symbol, they just enjoy a nice gun? Is that wrong?

It’s their prerogative. I can’t justify spending much over 1K for a firearm.

Ok but like explain them lol

I'm asking I'm not flexing on trap nerds

A Bentley has a v12 motor

Handstitched leather

Looks sexy as hell

They probably kill 7 pigmys trying to bring the tree they cut down in the rainforest for the wood they use in the dash board

Like what upgrades am i getting if i buy a 2-5 k over under for hunting and clays

you reach a point of diminishing returns when it comes to premium firearms. A gold plated toilet still gets shit dropped in it on a daily basis. How much does that extra 2k help you bust more clays or kill more birds?

 

[FisherTech]

If I had the discretionary cash to buy a High-end O/U, I would in a heartbeat. Then while I was at it a new Ford F350 Platinum. The reason being was because I could.;

 

[Bodhisattva]

I guess... maybe it depends on what you shoot?

I can tell the difference between my pws or my danny and an Anderson

So maybe its just unfamiliar with this style of gun


Me too lol

But id cry if i did what i did to my yildiz the other day to a 5k gun so i wanted to see if there are reasons for them in the field

Trap I at least understand you can get a nice one to show off because your not slogging it through shit

I will admit, I didn’t realize you were talking for mainly hunting. I thought you meant both. I wouldn’t spend over $2500 on a hunting gun. And to be honest I don’t even take the poverty O/U out hunting. Only did it once and it got beat up. It would mean a quick death for that gun if I used for hunting and clays. It’s strictly a clays gun now, I’m trying to get every penny out of the gun before I move on a nicer one. Even then I prob won’t carry it hunting. Unless I get a CZ All terrain

 

[jkelly1229]

If I had the discretionary cash to buy a High-end O/U, I would in a heartbeat. Then while I was at it a new Ford F350 Platinum. The reason being was because I could.;

I mean... after reading the replies i feel like a poor so I'll get a trap gun soon

But I beat the piss out of my field gun and I'm like do they hold up better? Etc etc

So looks like one for trap one for birds

 

[sig shooter]

I mean... after reading the replies i feel like a poor so I'll get a trap gun soon

But I beat the piss out of my field gun and I'm like do they hold up better? Etc etc

So looks like one for trap one for birds

I’ve held the CZ Drake Southpaw(I’m a lefty), seems like a pretty good deal at a reasonable price.

 

[jkelly1229]

I’ve held the CZ Drake Southpaw(I’m a lefty), seems like a pretty good deal at a reasonable price.

I want this

Browning Cynergy Wicked Wing Mossy Oak Shadow Grass Habitat 12 GA 26" Barrel 2-Rounds

The Browning Cynergy Wicked Wing is a top-of-the-line shotgun designed for serious hunters and shooters. This 12 gauge shotgun features a 26" barrel and a 3.5" chamber, making it perfect for taking down even the toughest game. With a 2rd capacity, you won't have to worry about reloading...

grabagun.com

 

[OMM 0000]

My phone tells the time, but I also have a 1967 Glycine Airman SST and I could tell you why the Schild movement inside it is unique. For all I know some young pilot bought it and wore it as he dodged SAMs over Vietnam.

My 30 yr old Beretta A320 Sport can hit clays fine, but do I want an antique British O/U from the gun room at Orvis? F*ck yeah I do!

What about, say, a Browning Citori? Well, I wear a $150 Seiko that is 100% made in house in Japan and is a precise, beautiful machine. I still have a Rolex fund.

The steel Rolex uses is an alloy they developed and pour in their own foundry. Similarly, a high end O/U will use better steel, it will still break open as intended on the 5k or 10k shot and not fall apart. A cheaper gun‘s alloy will loosen up at the hinge and by 5k rounds (or earlier) will fall apart. Not to mention 15 other innovations that they are implementing that are so obscure or detailed that most shoppers dont understand them.

I am not saying my old Berreta sucks. I am just saying there are reasons things are expensive and if you spend the time to understand why you likely will see their value and understand their cost.

 

[watchman]

Some of you need to live a little. So you spend your entire life skimping and being cheap and then post your accolades of being the best shooter with the biggest POS gun you can buy.

Do you actually read what you write? In the movie Open Range when bossman asks the shop owner if he ever tried the candy and he said no then boss says " "shame to go forever without the taste of something" going through life without a little pleasure really isn't living.

I hope when you too old and frail to use your money you'll remember how you squandered your youth with little pleasure.

 

[MisterHappy]

Just use a trench gun and show those FUDDs how it is done. If it was good enough to scare a government into trying to make it illegal, it is good enough for clays.

Does it have a bayonet mount? If so, bring it out to www.southboroughrodandgun.com for our turkey shoot. If you win one, you can rotisserie it on our grill!

 

[drgrant]

I dont think 1k rounds is a lot I said its what I've shot through it and it feels tight like its new.

But I think your argument loses a ton of credibilty with your second statement

S+w and springfield make good running 1911's that will run fine for thousands of rounds

No, they often don't. In the past i have literally seen SW1911s beat themselves to death because of poor fitment. And cheap springers seem to have doodoo parts hanging off them.

Just sounds like your mentally justifying a higher price tag for stuff

So the fit is a little better? And the barrels pattern slightly better? That's the selling point?

You asked the question he's giving you the answer. @Supermoto is not a surf shirt kid. He's walked the walk....

Personally- I'd never spend 5k even on a fart gun. It's just a shotgun. Bfd. Maybe if I was competing with it, then the value props change. If I was shooting clays every weekend I might feel differently. But I don't and probably never will. I am lucky if I burn off like 8-10 flats of shells a year... which in terms of clay sports is basically nothing.

In the grand scheme imo this is only a question you can answer for yourself. From the sounds of it, upstairs part of you wants a high quality shotgun, but that part is basically getting hit with a dollar store purse being swung from "dowanna" your inner skinflint that's like a 300 lb black lady who gets annoyed when the price goes up at golden corral.

 

[Mark from MA]

Some of you need to live a little. So you spend your entire life skimping and being cheap and then post your accolades of being the best shooter with the biggest POS gun you can buy.

Do you actually read what you write? In the movie Open Range when bossman asks the shop owner if he ever tried the candy and he said no then boss says " "shame to go forever without the taste of something" going through life without a little pleasure really isn't living.

I hope when you too old and frail to use your money you'll remember how you squandered your youth with little pleasure.

This...especially as you get older you realize it more.

That said...I wasn't buying 2-3K O/U's when I was raising kids, paying a mortgage, had car payments, and saving for kids college. If focused on investing and getting all that shit paid off, so now I can go buy what I want pretty comfortably with cash. I don't think i bought a gun for pretty close to 15 years from like 25-40 years old. Certainly wasnt burning 100 shells a week or more and spending hours at the club. I was raising my kids. Guns weren't in the budget. Luckily my dad had a bunch, most around here are not that lucky.

There is a time and a place for fancy guns and its called money you could burn and not give a fxck.

Self defense guns, basic rifle/shotgun hunting guns...different story....you should always have the basics. IMHO.

 

[Mark from MA]

I mean... after reading the replies i feel like a poor so I'll get a trap gun soon

But I beat the piss out of my field gun and I'm like do they hold up better? Etc etc

So looks like one for trap one for birds

You don't have to spend a shit ton on a dedicated trap gun....used BT-99's are out there for 1K or less. Some people try them and never use them that much and sell them.
If you plan to shoot skeet as well find a used O/U, which there are even more out there.

 

[allen-1]

At 8K rounds, he is top 1%.

Most people are lucky of they see the range once per month and shoot a couple of boxes.

I think that's somewhat region/population specific.

I typically shoot three matches a month or better depending upon what else is going on in my life. I see many of the same faces at these matches, others are doing the same.

I also typically go to the rance once a week for practice and relaxation.

That's pistol; I shoot rifle and shotgun much less frequently.

 

[Mark from MA]

I’d never heard of the Impala series. Internet seems to regard them highly. If it runs, I’m not one to crap on it because of its brand name. Heck, I have (and likely always will) drive a Honda cuz they just run.

And my Canik SFX is the best $500 I’ve ever spent on anything.

They run 100% reliable on just about every brand of shell except herters which sucks ass anyway.

A group of us at the club have about 10 of them total and they never fail. Rainy day guns. My last one I bought at Battlehawk for like $280. Its the Canik of auto shotguns.

One of the guys that has one cleans it every June or at 5K rounds whichever comes first.

 

[Stape]

I didn't read 5 pages so maybe this has been covered....

I had the same mentality, I had sub $1k O/U's because they were "just as good" and pretty enough for me. Then when I got into the shotgun sports, and regularly ran 300-500 shells a week through them, the difference started to show. I had to replace firing pins, springs, from just wearing down from use, then the hinges and locking lugs started getting loose. So much that, when the action is closed, if you grab the shotgun midway and shake it, there's a distinct wobble. Then I got into trap. I didn't have thousands to spend on a dedicated trap gun, hell, even nice used ones can run $4k pretrty easy. So I got a BT-99, great dedicated trap gun. Its from the 70's, fixed full choke, and allready had the adjustable comb, butt, and helicoil recoil reduction set installed, and I paid $1,500 for it. Lord knows how many rounds that thing has seen and its tighter than any of my newer doubles and I smash clays like a champ with that thing.

So, in short, I'd say build quality/materials. Many of your typical Turkish imports are fine guns and will give you years of use for the typical hunter, clays shooter. But put them in the hands of someone serious about clays and runs thousands of rounds a year through it and its a different story.

Price wise....once you get into the B guns, your fine, so say $2-3K for a Citori, then ad on the customization's as you go along to see what you like and don't like. You can buy a Citori already set up, but at a much greater cost as opposed to having a pro customize it and usually do a better job that the factory. Once you get to a certain point I think it just comes down to window dressing like nicer bluing, exhibition grade wood, elaborate engraving and such more so than importance of function.

I'm not a pro or even that smart, that's just my .02

 

[jamison55]

They run 100% reliable on just about every brand of shell except herters which sucks ass anyway.

A group of us at the club have about 10 of them total and they never fail. Rainy day guns. My last one I bought at Battlehawk for like $280. Its the Canik of auto shotguns.

One of the guys that has one cleans it every June or at 5K rounds whichever comes first.

Now that they are on my radar, I'm gonna be on the lookout for one. To your earlier point, I usually skip trap on rainy days or bring my old Mossberg because I don't want to mess up the nice wood on my Beretta 686. I shot an 8 a couple weeks ago with that Mossberg. Almost threw it in the lake right there!

 

[groundscrapers]

But id cry if i did what i did to my yildiz the other day to a 5k gun so i wanted to see if there are reasons for them in the field

Trap I at least understand you can get a nice one to show off because your not slogging it through shit

I routinely watch guys take tangent thetas (this) to matches and beat on them like they are cheap bushnell's. If you have that kind of money to spend on these items you don't baby them because you can afford them.

 

[jkelly1229]

I routinely watch guys take tangent thetas (this) to matches and beat on them like they are cheap bushnell's. If you have that kind of money to spend on these items you don't baby them because you can afford them.

I have it... I'm just a cheap ass

 

[groundscrapers]

I have it... I'm just a cheap ass

Ive got buddies that go bird hunting in NH and will walk through brush using their 20k shotguns to push branches out of the way. its just a thing.

 

[jkelly1229]

Ive got buddies that go bird hunting in NH and will walk through brush using their 20k shotguns to push branches out of the way. its just a thing.

Yeah i guess lol

 

[icyclefar]

One thing often overlooked in the "cheap" guns is their barrel regulation.

Some of the turkish O/U's have such poor barrel regulation that the POI between the upper and lower barrels can be off by 12" - 18".

With a gun like that, I don't care how good you are you're going to be struggling.

I've also seen cheap semi auto's that have POI that is so far off from POA that there's just no correcting for it.

If you buy yourself a "B" gun you'll likely avoid all of those kinds of problems.

If you step up to "K" guns you'll be able to tune your POA to your desired POI, and regulate your barrels to converge at any distance you like.

 

[Mark from MA]

One thing often overlooked in the "cheap" guns is their barrel regulation.

Some of the turkish O/U's have such poor barrel regulation that the POI between the upper and lower barrels can be off by 12" - 18".

With a gun like that, I don't care how good you are you're going to be struggling.

I've also seen cheap semi auto's that have POI that is so far off from POA that there's just no correcting for it.

Maybe this is a thing....... I haven't seen it from my experience with cheap turkish O/U's and semi's Ive had from ATI, CZ, and Impala Plus.

In fact I ran the course with a 24" barreled camo impala plus first time out, which I really I bought for deer and turkey hunting but just hadn't put a scope on yet. It shoots a fantastic slug at 80 yards too with the same barrel and choke combo.

And I use my carbon IP semi all the time and shoot average 23's like any of my Brownings. The gun I shoot best is my Winchester 101 Sporting. Run the course all the time with that.