I think they're ripping us off!

Rockrivr1 said:
The prices being charged at TS is the same as every other online store. In some cases they have lower prices then a few. Nobody has a lot of stock left. It’s not price gouging. It’s the market demand for a limited commodity. Ammo is not alone. Have you seen the prices for beef lately.
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Yeah. Way down compared to May. I picked up some chuck roasts on sale for $3/lb a few weeks ago. A week later I scored some tri-tip for $5 or 6/lb. Pork prices are still a bit high. So much for 99c/lb Boston butts. :(.
 
BigAl23 said:
No not sarcasm. I'm wondering why TSUSA is charging 40% more than my LGS when the must be buying at the same cost. My LGS said that's what his normal price is.
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This all depends on where the dealers are getting thier ammo. There are distributors that only sell to dealers. For example Camfour and Jerrys out of CT. There are many more .
some distributors have a better line on certain products. Club used to use a outfit out of NY for trap shooting supplies. CLays, shotgun shells shotgun related reloading supplies like lead shot and wads where great prices. They had center fire stuff but prices where not good.
So how you get ripped off is you pay $X for 100 rounds and when you get home you see theres only 80 rounds in the box.
Or you find cheap crappy reloads in a factory box and they are sold as factory .
You did right by doing some research and have found the better deal. At least your lgs is getting stuff in. Local shop near me is slowy getting depleted with little coming in.
 
The more I think about it, something is wrong about that TSUSA price on S&B 124 gr. Is TSUSA in the habit of raising its prices just as they see some particular ammo coming in? I don't remember it being anywhere near $19.99/box. Last time I bought it, it was $8.50 or so per box. I also see that the price on S&B "government contract" and "NATO" 124 gr is way cheaper... more in line with what the retail box stuff was selling for. [thinking]

Very fishy. I know these are crazy times, but $19.99 per box is awfully strange unless TSUSA is "price adjusting" its normal price by double just based on it suddenly becoming available. [thinking]

Could just be that they are paying tons more for it now wholesale. If so, I expect all the other lower priced S&B ammo to do the same once it actually becomes available (if it ever becomes available). :confused:
 
Another price gouging thread? Really? Can't we just have one master thread where people who are statists who want a controlled economy can self select and then the rest of us can go back about our business and accept that a free economy is better.

The only 9mm ammo I have on the shelf is whatever I bring in from my personal stash. I cannot get more than a very occasional case from a distributor (like 1 a month best case). 0.18-0.22/rd pre covid. I could keep it in stock. Covid at 0.30 it sells out to the first person walking through the door. At 0.50 a round it sells a couple boxes at a time and I might keep it a few days. So I sell at 0.50 a round and keep some not on display for first time gun buyers so they can have something.

Don't like it, don't buy it. But someone will. Biden/Harris win and 0.50 will seem like the best bargain pricing you have ever seen.

223/556 is the same. At 0.75 a round we can almost keep some on the shelf but it still goes out at a steady pace. Welcome to the ammo shortage
 
mac1911 said:
This all depends on where the dealers are getting thier ammo. There are distributors that only sell to dealers. For example Camfour and Jerrys out of CT. There are many more .
some distributors have a better line on certain products. Club used to use a outfit out of NY for trap shooting supplies. CLays, shotgun shells shotgun related reloading supplies like lead shot and wads where great prices. They had center fire stuff but prices where not good.
So how you get ripped off is you pay $X for 100 rounds and when you get home you see theres only 80 rounds in the box.
Or you find cheap crappy reloads in a factory box and they are sold as factory .
You did right by doing some research and have found the better deal. At least your lgs is getting stuff in. Local shop near me is slowy getting depleted with little coming in.
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Dude I had an account with Jerry's, that company went bankrupt a couple years ago. It's under some new name now, restructured. I'm pretty sure the distribution center in CT is no longer.
 
Sometimes it pays off having less popular/odd ball calibers. Was wondering thru Bass Pro the other day, pistol ammo was reduced to one case that was almost empty but they had six boxes of .41 Mag ammo...I left one. I was still able to get .458 SOCOM on line, not a huge selection but still available.
 
Times are volatile.
Here's another commodity at all time highs, 7/16 4x8 OSB. I work for a major lumber wholesale distribution company. Yesterday I bought 2 trucks of OSB from the only manufacturer than was selling, the rest of them where off the market. I paid $19.52 a sheet, loaded truck in Louisiana, add my freight I have to pay to trucking company to get it to Alabama my delivered cost is $20.45. And that has a 3 week lead time. I just looked up what Home Depot is selling same product in their Reading, MA store and it is $18.55. Below replacement. And no need to reply that Home Depot pays less, they are one my companies biggest customers and on 7/16 everyone pays about the same, and there is very little margin in this product. 2-3% margin on a truckload is a good order.
 
drgrant said:
To put it another way... right now there is a balance point of equilibrium that most shops are trying to hit.... between a lack of supply, yet to keep ammo on the shelves for people that want it... with also a third objective of maximizing profit whenever feasible. Market forces largely determine prices in a sort of yo-yo effect etc. Any "padding" being done right now, either at the distribution or the LGS level, is not going to go away if the market demand is as stiff as it is. Prices aren't going to drop until inventory starts sitting around.

Think of it this way... years ago under obama admin at one point gas was like 4 something bucks a gallon, or more. There were toyota dealers who would basically laugh at you, full on risitas style, if you tried to negotiate downward a price on a prius- because they had the advantage of knowing that every time a few of them showed up on their lot, they would sell at sticker, immediately. This situation isn't any different, It's a sellers market. That's just how economics work. And if you want the prices to go down, the best thing to do is to stop buying shit. [laugh]
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Non ammo related but I recall reading back then that Prius' were in such high demand at that point that people who had bought one new a year or two prior were selling them for more than they had originally paid.
 
Every time someone posts about how TS is overcharging for ammo compared to most every local shop, invariably the armchair economists in the room start mindlessly going off about “supply and demand.” Just as a quick FYI for anyone who hasn’t had a chance to speak to an actual economist lately, it’s taught and known that during emergencies (such as a worldwide pandemic), the standard principles of “supply / demand pricing” no longer apply. The example that was given to me is that if my child was sick and it was $1k, $100k, $10m for the treatment, would there be any price that I could come up with that sum of money and say no to? If the answer is that I’d pay regardless, that’s how economists define pricing as a “predatory” situation.

Now ammo isn’t considered an essential life saving treatment, and we’d all say no to a $100 box of 9mm, but for many with an addiction to shooting, people who compete, those who have a “stack deep” compulsion, who firearm owners who have no choice, even if it was $100 a box, they’d likely still buy. This is what makes TS selling a $14 box of ammo for $20 less “supply / demand” and more “predatory.”
 
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Camhabib said:
Every time someone posts about how TS is overcharging for ammo compared to most every local shop, invariably the armchair economists in the room start mindlessly going off about “supply and demand.” Just as a quick FYI for anyone who hasn’t had a chance to speak to an actual economist lately, it’s taught and known that during emergencies (such as a worldwide pandemic), the standard principles of “supply / demand pricing” no longer apply. The example that was given to me is that if my child was sick and it was $1k, $100k, $10m for the treatment, would there be any price that I could come up with that sum of money and say no to? If the answer is that I’d pay regardless, that’s how economists define pricing as a “predatory” situation.

Now ammo isn’t considered an essential life saving treatment, and we’d all say no to a $100 box of 9mm, but for many with an addiction to shooting, people who compete, those who have a “stack deep” compulsion, who firearm owners who have no choice, even if it was $100 a box, they’d likely still buy. This is what makes TS selling a $14 box of ammo for $20 less “supply / demand” and more “predatory.”
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WTF? Someone give a single example of TSUSA charging more than some LGS for 9mm, and suddenly they're predatory? By your logic, every other LGS that charges more than TSUSA is predatory every damn day.
 
Reptile said:
I know why...

People like to reminisce about yesterday and how much better some things were.

They like to be reminded how good they had it.
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Most of the people whining aren't in that category though, they likely lack experience or they have selective memory and didnt learn from the last like 3 or 4 ammo shortages.

They also likely have buying habits that make it more likely that they will get screwed every time one of these shortages happen, too.

Hell if they had bought a box of (whatever) every month, when the market went into a trough they probably wouldn't be complaining right now.
 
Camhabib said:
Every time someone posts about how TS is overcharging for ammo compared to most every local shop, invariably the armchair economists in the room start mindlessly going off about “supply and demand.” Just as a quick FYI for anyone who hasn’t had a chance to speak to an actual economist lately, it’s taught and known that during emergencies (such as a worldwide pandemic), the standard principles of “supply / demand pricing” no longer apply. The example that was given to me is that if my child was sick and it was $1k, $100k, $10m for the treatment, would there be any price that I could come up with that sum of money and say no to? If the answer is that I’d pay regardless, that’s how economists define pricing as a “predatory” situation.

Now ammo isn’t considered an essential life saving treatment, and we’d all say no to a $100 box of 9mm, but for many with an addiction to shooting, people who compete, those who have a “stack deep” compulsion, who firearm owners who have no choice, even if it was $100 a box, they’d likely still buy. This is what makes TS selling a $14 box of ammo for $20 less “supply / demand” and more “predatory.”
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Higher prices in times of crisis also cause people to self ration ensuring a better chance for others to get "something", whether its a hotel room or sheets of plywood or bottled water after a hurricane or 9mm during an ammo panic.
 
Camhabib said:
Every time someone posts about how TS is overcharging for ammo compared to most every local shop, invariably the armchair economists in the room start mindlessly going off about “supply and demand.” Just as a quick FYI for anyone who hasn’t had a chance to speak to an actual economist lately, it’s taught and known that during emergencies (such as a worldwide pandemic forcing), the standard principles of “supply / demand pricing” no longer apply. The example that was given to me is that if my child was sick and it was $1k, $100k, $10m for the treatment, would there be any price that I could come up with that sum of money and say no to? If the answer is that I’d pay regardless, that’s how economists define pricing as a “predatory” situation. Now ammo isn’t considered an essential life saving treatment, and we’d all say no to a $100 box of 9mm, but for many with an addiction to shooting, people who compete, those who have a “stack deep” compulsion, who firearm owners who have no choice, even if it was $100 a box, they’d likely still buy. This is what makes TS selling a $14 box of ammo for $20 less “supply / demand” and more “predatory.”
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TSUSA’s prices aren’t predatory. Cheaper Than Dirt’s might be, and so possibly are flippers on gun broker, but people re-selling product isn’t the same as a company in a narrow market.
Do we think that the price TSUSA is paying hasn’t changed? Honest question, I don’t know

You also can’t compare apples and oranges like healthcare, and ammo. I bet 100% of those asked would consider healthcare essential. I’d also bet that above 90% of people asked, would consider ammo non-essential or as economists put it, a luxury.

Emergency or not (this “emergency” is going on 6 months now, not sure it counts) when demand is really high, and supply becomes low, prices will go up, annd up, and up some more, to try and find the new equilibrium. Then, and only then, can the supply increase to meet demand for prices to fall.
I doubt Federal is going to build a new factory to meet an influx of demand. Things will level off again, just not for a good while.
 
headednorth said:
Higher prices in times of crisis also cause people to self ration ensuring a better chance for others to get "something", whether its a hotel room or sheets of plywood or bottled water after a hurricane or 9mm during an ammo panic.
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Unfortunately the exact opposite is true. A good example of this that we’re all familiar with is how no one could get toilet paper. When people think something may be in short supply, they typically want to buy more of it. That’s the exact principle luxury brands survive on.
 
Camhabib said:
Unfortunately the exact opposite is true. A good example of this that we’re all familiar with is how no one could get toilet paper. When people think something may be in short supply, they typically want to buy more of it. That’s the exact principle luxury brands survive on.
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What Im saying is that if prices go up high enough, people will buy only what they need
 
drgrant said:
Most of the people whining aren't in that category though, they likely lack experience or they have selective memory and didnt learn from the last like 3 or 4 ammo shortages.

They also likely have buying habits that make it more likely that they will get screwed every time one of these shortages happen, too.

Hell if they had bought a box of (whatever) every month, when the market went into a trough they probably wouldn't be complaining right now.
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I’m trying to only whine in my self pity corner, sorry if my moaning got loud. I’ll keep it down.

I’ll throw lack of funds in there as well. Add that to lack of experience (2 years with LTC) and you’ve got a recipe for suck.
 
headednorth said:
What Im saying is that if prices go up high enough, people will buy only what they need
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In a standard model and situation, but my point was that if someone considers something to be essential, they’ll pay any price for it. A new gun owner or someone with an upcoming match with absolutely no ammo or would consider a box essential.

I’m not saying that TS or anyone else is “predatory” but like I said, it’s approaching that at least in my armchair perspective.
 
Camhabib said:
In a standard model and situation, but my point was that if someone considers something to be essential, they’ll pay any price for it. A new gun owner or someone with an upcoming match with absolutely no ammo or would consider a box essential.
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Fair enough. Im seeing this myself with a couple new/casual gun owners I know.

Camhabib said:
I’m not saying that TS or anyone else is “predatory” but like I said, it’s approaching that at least in my armchair perspective.
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Maybe. Im not sure where to draw the line between prices that were raised to meet higher demand and predatory prices (not even sure if I would call it predatory tbh)
 
One of the above posts makes the most sense. Your LGS Probably placed his initial order before the rush. They shorted his order to fill the “big guys” orders. TS’s inventory turnover can be measured in hours right now, so their retail pricing reflects current wholesale pricing. It’s the same reason your LGS has sky high prices when the prices have plummeted other places. They unfortunately made the buy when demand was high and will take a huge loss if they try to match others current retail.
 
Camhabib said:
In a standard model and situation, but my point was that if someone considers something to be essential, they’ll pay any price for it. A new gun owner or someone with an upcoming match with absolutely no ammo or would consider a box essential.

I’m not saying that TS or anyone else is “predatory” but like I said, it’s approaching that at least in my armchair perspective.
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Unless that competitor does so for survival, there's nothing "essential" about it. You're taking away autonomy from the market.

The simple reality is that the price floor has shifted. The resources used to manufacture are less available because the world is shut down for manufacturing gigs that are deemed non-essential. The act of manufacturing has become more expensive. Shipping is more expensive. This makes luxury products like ammo more expensive.
 
Tinkermatic said:
I’m trying to only whine in my self pity corner, sorry if my moaning got loud. I’ll keep it down.

I’ll throw lack of funds in there as well. Add that to lack of experience (2 years with LTC) and you’ve got a recipe for suck.
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Folks who can readily afford large bulk buys without a second thought tend to forget that there are other people out there who can't. Used to be that way for me. Planning even a modest ammo buy (by today's standards) was a relatively big deal for me pre-Newtown. But after you go through one big ammo price/availability crisis, it tends not to happen again. Your priorities change... or at least they should. [dance]
 
BigAl23 said:
I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only)... I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box!
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If he is getting only 20 boxes in at $14 a box , I'll bet he'll limit sales to 1 box per customer. Sounds like a loss-leader...

$14-dollar-a-box 9mm ammo on the shelf...

pizza-hands-reach-for-last-slice.gif
 
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