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http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...citizens-legally-carrying-a-concealed-weapon/
I hope this link works as it was a good read.
I hope this link works as it was a good read.
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Interesting article on how Cops should treat armed citizens written by a Cop.
- Thread starter pbearperry
- Start date
Good read, thanks...
Great article, great find.
One thing that stuck out to me was the author stated this a few times; "I don’t expect them to be experts on the law. Most will understand the gist of it but may get lost on certain points."
The author was reffering CCWers, but in my limited experience this more acurately describes some town and city cops with whom I have discussed concealed carry. Granted I am in MA and the laws and regs are designed to be anything but easily understood, so confusion and various points of view are to be somewhat expected, but of the population I've had the opportunity to speak with have more or less told me they have larger issues to make sure they're intimately familiar with, than people who usually are going out of their way to be exceedingly law abiding. Only the jerks or those who feel that civilian CCW is some sort of blight will break balls if they become aware of what they percieve as some sort of infraction.
Be that as it may, I like this guy's point of view.
One thing that stuck out to me was the author stated this a few times; "I don’t expect them to be experts on the law. Most will understand the gist of it but may get lost on certain points."
The author was reffering CCWers, but in my limited experience this more acurately describes some town and city cops with whom I have discussed concealed carry. Granted I am in MA and the laws and regs are designed to be anything but easily understood, so confusion and various points of view are to be somewhat expected, but of the population I've had the opportunity to speak with have more or less told me they have larger issues to make sure they're intimately familiar with, than people who usually are going out of their way to be exceedingly law abiding. Only the jerks or those who feel that civilian CCW is some sort of blight will break balls if they become aware of what they percieve as some sort of infraction.
Be that as it may, I like this guy's point of view.
Thanks for this article. As usual I scanned it quickly then printed it out to read more closely later.
One big unanswered and oft-debated question. Lacking state or local law which mandates informling an officer that you are carrying, what do you do?
One big unanswered and oft-debated question. Lacking state or local law which mandates informling an officer that you are carrying, what do you do?
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There have been multiple threads on this topic on NES over the years.
My words of wisdom are DO NOT TELL, unless you must (asked out of car, gun is obvious to LEO). I can't tell you how many times I've walked up on a cop and chatted (some know me, others don't have a clue who I am) and never been asked once if I'm carrying.
Some cops will be OK with you telling, others (I'm thinking some Boston PD in particular) will prone you out. Some MA SP might start spouting off all sorts of "made-up laws", implying that CCW may not be legal or carrying wherever may not be legal (this was done to me many years ago), etc.
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When I read the article I interpreted the reference to be about all laws in general and not specific to firearms laws. I do not disagree with you though about MA LEO's and firearms laws.
I'm a little confused. First the author indicates that people who have gone through the process of getting a concealed carry permit are not the problem.
Then he explains in great detail how to spot them and offers no explanation as to the reason why.
Then he explains in great detail how to spot them and offers no explanation as to the reason why.
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There have been multiple threads on multiple forums over the years which I have read. Generally somewhat evenly split between the tell up front/don't tell unless asked if you have any weapons or firearms or asked to exit the vehicle. There has also been many anecdotal stories about cops responding both ways (i.e., "Why are you telling me this?"/"Why didn't you tell me right away?").
I was curious to see if he addressed this subject or not. Plus any reasons why be proposed one over the other.
I was curious to see if he addressed this subject or not. Plus any reasons why be proposed one over the other.
When I'm out and about I try to spot them as well, the more knowledge and awareness you have, the safer you make your situation; he's just advising cops to do the same thing. Not overreacting to some CCWing and being complacent about it are two totally different things.
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Because as a LEO you want to know who everyone is...... good and bad. It is sometimes beneficial to know who not to worry about.
This. I think part of it was also to describe how 'we' (the 'good guys') tend to dress, so that if we get made by a cop, it'll be a cue that we're CCing lawfully, and while perhaps cause for a little investigating, and a helpful reminder to cover up, no need to immediate prone us out.
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bull fvcking sh1t. I expect most CCWers to know the laws regarding carrying a firearm more than the average police officer, ESPECIALLY in this state.
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I'm with you on this one but I'm not an LEO. I guess it can't hurt to recognize from their standpoint. Just hope they don't lay you out on the ground when they spot it.
Otherwise it sheds a fairly good light on concealed carry.
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He did use the term "half cocked" in the article by the way.
"...crotch of their pants at knee height or wear their baseball hat cocked at a ridiculous angle."
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If you look at the context of the whole article it is not exclusively about firearms laws but deals with 4A and officer safety issues and his statement would be correct.
Read VON1's comment at the bottom and tell me how you feel.
Brin747
NES Member
The letters WTF come to mind...
We are all a little fuzzy on those - sort of like most people are fuzzy on quantum physics.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Like welcoming our new overlords - you?
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Good LEOs have a realistic/tempered expectation of their own importance when they interact with the public. Great LEOs have the patience of saints when they do so and put up with crap most of us could only pretend in print to tolerate...
Sadly though, the culture of entitlement and unrealistic views of "normal" human interaction permeating our society from kindergarten on up are showing themselves in the Law Enforcement field. The militarization (sometimes with good reason, sometimes not) of portions (or all of) the police force is only amplifying this bad behavior...
Again, I know plenty of good ones (orders of magnitude more good than bad), but given our courts/legislators long slide away from the basic concepts of liberty as the first principle of our society - even at the occasional expense of safety - more and more, the risk of bad outcome when you do run into a bad one is going up...
All of us need to remember that we exist in a community. Not "us" and "them"...
There is a good example of why I can't fully trust the police. Even if the vast majority are good guys, you never know when you might run into VON1, and for some reason the good guys won't weed out the VON1's.
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Actually, there is a good reason which is that demeanor can be deceptive. The worst of anti-social behavior can appear for a time to be completely "normal" social behavior. Courteous, deferential, even helpful...
Sort of like how Coyotes lure domesticated dogs by feigning injury or playful behavior. It's not often we run into the really bad ones like that whether LEO or not, but when you do, the cost of not catching it in time can be yours and/or other's lives...
So, while frankly they should assume "good with guns", a more accurate categorization is a valuable tool in doing their jobs and protecting themselves.
You know you are a good guy. They don't. The really bad ones don't care about good - only projecting what they think you need to see to think they are good. Some of them are very good at that act...
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Protecting themselves from what?
The author began by making a premise. His premise is that people who go through the process of obtaining a concealed gun permit do not present a threat to the police. Are you saying that his premise is wrong?
If we assume that his premise is correct, I still don't have an answer to what I thought was a rather simple question.
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Look at the last paragraph of the article:
A LEO responding to a call being able to differentiate between a CCW and a possible armed felon will hopefully benefit the CCW in being treated appropriately.
Dream to Dream
NES Member
Anybody else get the vibe that CCW is being equated with trained dog?
"I treat them with respect and as a resource."
"They will be angry if you prone them out, spread eagle them against a wall, or take their firearm from them without just cause."
I understand what he's trying to say, but it's really not much different than the comments VON1 made that irked everyone so much.
Again, it shouldn't be "us and them." Unless someone is acting suspiciously, I don't understand the need to probe and flush out CCW permit holders. Unless someone can point out something I may be missing?
