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Isosceles or Weaver stance
- Thread starter Maxspeed
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Did you watch the video of the desert eagle or not, dude? Gun wouldn't run because of a weak limp ass grip, no firm support to keep it running...dude![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
What was the name of the club you competed at? And what years?
The desert eagle mike...watch the entire video
LOL so you really think it's because of his stance? And not because a Deagle is a piece of shit?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
You were talking big bore revolvers (and we proved you wrong on that) again you're changing the subject. -Mike
Are we making this personal
not sure if I have my card still of my classification in IPSC but I can look for it. I am a life member of ARPC in Oregon and you can see us on our website. The clubs I competed at were the ISSAC Walton league in Eugene Oregon, my club, Tualatin gun club, Salem gun club so how many more do you need? I quit IPSC in the 90s.
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LOL so you really think it's because of his stance? And not because a Deagle is a piece of shit?
-Mike
I have a desert Eagle in 44 that runs fine if you hold it right, you can't limp wrist it. The video shows how the mechanics of the gun has to have firm support. It's all good guys, you can make me the fool all you want or even say I make myself the fool but you posted the video and the gun didn't run with a limp grip.
Are we making this personal
IPSC or USPSA?
Exactly. You can limp grip in Weaver or in Iso. Stance has nothing to do with grip.
Well you saw it in the video... hard kicking autos must have a firm stance and grip to run right. Weaver produces a platform that doesn't allow the gun to flop around and the ammo to move forward under recoil to jam the gun. Simple mechanics and understanding what causes jams. Enough of this anyway, you guys got your way and it's all good but ya'll call me a fool too much when you don't even understand your own videos. Later gents...it's been my pleasure.
That is Jeff Cooper's assertion verbatim. But it is simply wrong.
You can limp grip in any stance. You can grip firmly using Iso.
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
No. That video is just a guy limp wristing a gun. Iso doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. You can have a strong grip with Iso. You can limp wrist with Iso.
You keep asserting that Weaver => strong grip. But that's wrong. You can have a strong grip in Weaver. You can limp wrist with Weaver.
You can get a firmer grip with weaver because the arms are closer to the body and different muscles are used. The push pull with bent elbows creates a solid platform unlike one that the arms are out and the gun flops around. You can't limp wrist in a proper weaver, the push pull doesn't allow it. A gun is a machine, for it to run right it has to have firm support and especially if it's an auto.
With revolvers the gun flopping around can work like a inertia bullet puller and the bullet move forward to jam the revolver. With a kicking auto the flopping around causes the next round in the mag to move too far forward causing a FTF. While some people can grip a firearm shoved way out in front of them and it run right there are lots of folkes with small hands that a big gun can't be managed except by weaver. There is no one way, maybe for the game but there is no one way.
SJan
NES Member
This thread.... Wow
I think we need to see a video of just Jim shooting his 357 Magnum rapidly, maybe doing a bill drill.
I'll settle for a recent video of anybody using a weaver stance and shooting accurately and quickly
I think we need to see a video of just Jim shooting his 357 Magnum rapidly, maybe doing a bill drill.
I'll settle for a recent video of anybody using a weaver stance and shooting accurately and quickly
That's just not true. ISO i have 2 arms to distribute recoil. weaver, you only have one, the weak arm is pulling the gun in the direction the gun wants to recoil, not sure why you would want to pull the gun in the directinn you are trying to resist. ISO I can use my chest muscles to really clamp down on the gun. Mike Seeklander does an excellent video on this
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Are we making this personal
What color was the clubhouse at Salem back then?
I would disagree with the above bolded... your logic is backwards, the isosceles is a more symmetrical base to absorb the recoil of the gun. Mechanically with the weaver the bent elbow absorbs more of the recoil. With the iso the force is absorbed by both shoulders. It also allows more of the grip pressure to be on the non dominant hand thus keeping the trigger hand less tense which allows better trigger control (smaller muscles pulling the trigger and not moving the gun) and more accuracy.
At least that is what all the top shooters in the world have figured out.
Some of the clubs had no buildings in those days and my own club only had one building when I started shooting there. I do get it you are playing the movie BS as I have seen the movie, how many did he ambush with the coffee cup?
Yep the game demands you shoot that way and all the top shooters in the game do but then how realistic is the game? Run and gun as fast as you can is for score and playing with guns. Stages with 10 targets that you are running toward them is great for run and gun, would you run toward the targets if they were shooting at you? It's a game that isn't close to reality.
Look at the video the boys put up where the guy shoots the big bore revolver then the auto. His reloads he stands in the open in view of targets looking down while reloading, he is dead. If they wanted to produce a better challenge the scoring would be alive or dead and the guy who doesn't get killed is the winner. The boys love their shooting targets that just stand there with no cover, would you just stand there in a real fight? Do you only train with one hand or do you do weak hand drills? Is there ever a cover position that you must use weaver?
Not sure what any of this has to do with shooting ISO or weaver? People that shoot ISSO don't know not to stand out in the open in a gunfight, is that what you are saying? USPSA has barricades you have to shoot around, either side you can use ISO, better than you can weaver. How easy is it to stay behind a barricade a barricade and shoot on your weak side with weaver?
Cloverleaf Firearms Group
Instructor
I don't even know which point you are arguing. Can you pick one and stick with it for a minute?
I teach (or at least pretend to) firearms to people who carry them for a living. ISO fits better on so many levels because it's a natural flow between combatives, pistol, and rifle. It allows for better explosive movement as we in my opinion. As far as recoil management, it's all in the wrists. Stance is as simple as dropping one foot back like a modern fighting stance.
I teach (or at least pretend to) firearms to people who carry them for a living. ISO fits better on so many levels because it's a natural flow between combatives, pistol, and rifle. It allows for better explosive movement as we in my opinion. As far as recoil management, it's all in the wrists. Stance is as simple as dropping one foot back like a modern fighting stance.
I guess the point is the shooting isn't realistic because it's a scored game so to say one is better than the other isn't really true. Again go back and watch the big bore shooter, like all games nobody shoots back so the games teach people how to get killed. Walk in front of a window while reloading and there are targets there that in real life you are dead. But you can't go fast and win if you don't do dumb things.... it's a game. It would be interesting to find a way to put the go pro cameras on the target and time how long the shooter is exposed. If you can hit them then they can hit you.
Does isocolese do well shooting from cover? It does really well when a guy stands in the open to shoot five unarmed targets. What are those guys doing in real life? See its a game
How about no stance... Unless you're just poking holes in paper and that's all you own guns for, shooting is and should be dynamic. I shoot in whatever stance I happen to be in, and am frequently moving my feet.
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