Isosceles or Weaver stance

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just jim said:
I guess the point is the shooting isn't realistic because it's a scored game so to say one is better than the other isn't really true. Again go back and watch the big bore shooter, like all games nobody shoots back so the games teach people how to get killed. Walk in front of a window while reloading and there are targets there that in real life you are dead. But you can't go fast and win if you don't do dumb things.... it's a game. It would be interesting to find a way to put the go pro cameras on the target and time how long the shooter is exposed. If you can hit them then they can hit you.

Does isocolese do well shooting from cover? It does really well when a guy stands in the open to shoot five unarmed targets. What are those guys doing in real life? See its a game
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So you are saying that since gamers shoot ISO and don't use cover, that ISO will get you killed in the street? That someone can not get tactics training outside uspsa or have the common sense not to stand in the open in a gun fight, all because they shoot ISO. And that weaver is better in a gun fight because gamers don't use it. Even though the top military, law enforcement and self defense trainers teach ISO.
 
So now we need return fire in USPSA for the ISO stance to be valid? How does that validate in any way the concept of the Weaver stance and its inability to engage targets on the weak side?
 
Supermoto said:
So you are saying that since gamers shoot ISO and don't use cover, that ISO will get you killed in the street? That someone can not get tactics training outside uspsa or have the common sense not to stand in the open in a gun fight, all because they shoot ISO. And that weaver is better in a gun fight because gamers don't use it. Even though the top military, law enforcement and self defense trainers teach ISO.
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That's a long leading question but since you missed it I will say it again, there is no one way for all shooting. I could point out some real shootings but I see it's not registering.
 
Geometry is wrong unless people are shooting back at you. Am I getting this right?
 
bigblue said:
So now we need return fire in USPSA for the ISO stance to be valid? How does that validate in any way the concept of the Weaver stance and its inability to engage targets on the weak side?
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Is all your shooting going to be ISO no matter what?
 
just jim said:
Is all your shooting going to be ISO no matter what?
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The reverse question is also valid. Thing is, ISO at least allows the shooter to engage targets from multiple positions and ADJUST. Weaver does not offer any flexibility or weak-side engagement. Hell, how do you shoot a VTAC in Weaver?
 
kalash said:
Geometry is wrong unless people are shooting back at you. Am I getting this right?
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[laugh] really, you guys hold them and squeeze them the way you want as it won't matter to me what the outcome is.
Ed Mcgivern was the fastest shot in the world in his day with one hand, Jerry now shoots faster with two hands. If Jerry lost a hand would he still be as fast? What's the geometry of that?[laugh]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern
 
So how did he shoot Weaver WITH ONE ****ING HAND?


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just jim said:
That's a long leading question but since you missed it I will say it again, there is no one way for all shooting. I could point out some real shootings but I see it's not registering.
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I'd love to see a modern day example of a gun fight that the shooters used weaver
 
just jim said:
[laugh] really, you guys hold them and squeeze them the way you want as it won't matter to me what the outcome is.
Ed Mcgivern was the fastest shot in the world in his day with one hand, Jerry now shoots faster with two hands. If Jerry lost a hand would he still be as fast? What's the geometry of that?[laugh]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern
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Anyone more recent? Maybe with a wiki photo that isn't a tintype.
 
bigblue said:
The reverse question is also valid. Thing is, ISO at least allows the shooter to engage targets from multiple positions and ADJUST. Weaver does not offer any flexibility or weak-side engagement. Hell, how do you shoot a VTAC in Weaver?
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It does offer more protection to the body in a gunfight. Most of us can't wear body armour as civilians so having your arm there for incoming is some help.

Shot IPSC and all kinds of stages for years useing weaver and made C class with a stock gun and milt sparks AT1 holster and gear. The boys used Ernie Hill and $3000 race guns and they won every time but they never carried those guns on the street and all their train to go fast...oh well[laugh]

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bill o said:
Anyone more recent? Maybe with a wiki photo that isn't a tintype.
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How many did he ambush?
 
SJan said:
So one hand shooting is the bestest. Got it.
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If you only have one hand it is, do you recall the Miami shootout? So how are you going to defend yourself if one arm is hit and you can't use ISO? [laugh] oh but there is only one way to shoot and ISO wins. You ever shoot bullseye competition?

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Supermoto said:
So those people are shooting weaver?
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They are shooting who ever they want[laugh][rofl]
 
just jim said:
If you only have one hand it is, do you recall the Miami shootout? So how are you going to defend yourself if one arm is hit and you can't use ISO?
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How are you going to shoot Weaver with one arm? You are deliberately misdirecting the conversation.
 
just jim said:
It does offer more protection to the body in a gunfight. Most of us can't wear body armour as civilians so having your arm there for incoming is some help.
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I'm sorry. This is a giant load of derp. In addition to that, the typical bladed orientation to a threat is inviting bilateral gunshot wounds which pretty much guarantee you being in for a REALLY bad day.
 
kalash said:
How are you going to shoot Weaver with one arm? You are deliberately misdirecting the conversation.
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It's a conversation about shooting and time after time I make the point one size does not fit all. There is no misdirection and I have made my point with the video supplied by you guys and from then on its been about shooting. Not sure what you want but try more than one sentence to get it[laugh]
 
just jim said:
Got to add here, when you can shoot one handed 5 shots all under a playing card at 15 feet in 2/5 of a second make sure we see the video[rofl]
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.08 splits? I think Bill can do that ISO, but definitely not Weaver, not enough recoil control with Weaver
 
Cloverleaf Firearms Group said:
I'm sorry. This is a giant load of derp. In addition to that, the typical bladed orientation to a threat is inviting bilateral gunshot wounds which pretty much guarantee you being in for a REALLY bad day.
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Any gunfight is going to be a bad day for any civilian. We are on our own with no backup and no vest so we will have to do what it takes to live. Like being attacked by a lion, you feed them hands or feet until you can muster a defense. If you look at all the old training the cops shot one handed with the other hand in a fist over their heart. Defense is really about thinking and putting together a response that works for the individual because we are not all the same.

I imagine it's easy to teach cops because they work as a team, civilians must be a challenge for you?
 
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