Kids, Toy Guns, Real Guns, and Hoplophobe Parents

[lagrangian]

Well, now that I have a son (3 months old -- whee! , I have to start thinking about how to handle the whole gun issue. My wife (who also has an LTC-A) and I have been talking about it and we've come to the following preliminary conclusions:

• We will have him go through something like the Eddie Eagle GunSafe teaching of "if you see a gun, Stop! Don't touch it! Leave the area! And tell an adult RIGHT AWAY!"
• We won't let him have toy guns. Not because we're against the concept of people with guns (obviously) but because play with toy guns violates all the gun safety rules (point in a safe direction, finger off trigger until ready to fire, etc.) We don't like the idea of the toy gun leading him to develop habits which are incredibly dangerous with a real gun.
• Here's the part that might be controversial for this forum -- we don't think we will tell him that we have guns until we believe he is old enough to handle keeping that information to himself (of course we have a gun safe, but it's not obviously a gun safe, especially to a young child). Why? Because we don't want our son to end up in the situation where all his friends' parents tell their children "you're not allowed to play at Johnny's house any more" because our son blurted out something about our owning guns. Given that we live in Arlington, which despite having an amazingly sane police chief is more Cantabrigian blue by the day, I think that's a very realistic outcome. I imagine some people here will tell us "move to another state" or "find your kid some new friends", but the first isn't an option and how realistic, really, is the second, especially since I bet the odds are that most of any friends he might make will have hoplophobe parents.
• Once he is old enough to be circumspect, we plan to tell him about the guns, take the proper gun handling safety classes, and encourage him to get involved in youth shooting and hope that he'll take an interest in it.

How have you guys handled these issues?

 

[Marcus in the Darkus]

I've handled them differently than you, although my kids were older when I got my Class A license - my youngest was about 6 at the time. I had toy guns when I was a kid and I knew the difference between a toy gun and a real gun, and I don't think I got any bad habits from the toy guns. I therefore didn't see any reason to keep my kids away from toy guns. Neither they nor I obsess over it - they have a few toy guns they play with occasionally. They all know about and practice real-gun safety. The oldest (16 yesterday) is now entrusted with the BB gun without direct adult supervision. Unlike when I was a kid and the rifles were on open racks and the pistols were in dresser drawers, my guns are kept out of sight and locked up when not in use.

Maybe I'm just getting to be an old fart, but I don't really care what the neighbors think about my guns, fast cars or politics. So I've told my kids that firearms are a little hobby of mine, they enjoy shooting with me, they join their mother in giving me a hard time when I get caught bringing a new firearm home, and they are free to talk to their friends about guns if they see fit. I have told them, however, that my decision to carry a firearm is a very personal thing, and I have asked them not to discuss it with others. I feel that being overly secretive about personal firearm ownership only plays to the anti-gun rhetoric that is so pervasive in this area.

I'm not criticizing you or your decision about how to raise your kids. I just see it a little differently, and approach it a little more casually.

 

[noelephant]

Greetings!

I am a relatively new firearms owner. (Less than a year.)

When I bought my first firearm, I told a few people, but there were a lot of people I would never mention firearms too.

However, that has changed a bit. At this point, I honestly don't care who has a problem with firearms. If I feel like talking about shooting or firearms, I will regardless of who is present.

My mother, who also holds a class A, had a similar issue. I somewhat jokingly told her one day, "So what if they have a problem with you owning guns. You have guns. They don't. What can they do about it?"

All joking aside, I consider firearms ownership to be a very important natural right, which is protected by our great Constitution.

One does not allow their slaves to be armed because then you can no longer keep them subservient. A free citizen is armed and willing to defend themselves or they will soon find themselves in slavery or relying on others to keep them free.

Okay... that being said:

I believe you are right to be cautious about your children. In our unfortunate political climate, it is very possible that you or your children could end up with serious problems just by them mentioning firearms in school. Children have been suspended for merely drawing pictures of firearms while in school

 

[sksguns]

Well, now that I have a son (3 months old -- whee! , I have to start thinking about how to handle the whole gun issue. My wife (who also has an LTC-A) and I have been talking about it and we've come to the following preliminary conclusions:

• We will have him go through something like the Eddie Eagle GunSafe teaching of "if you see a gun, Stop! Don't touch it! Leave the area! And tell an adult RIGHT AWAY!"
• We won't let him have toy guns. Not because we're against the concept of people with guns (obviously) but because play with toy guns violates all the gun safety rules (point in a safe direction, finger off trigger until ready to fire, etc.) We don't like the idea of the toy gun leading him to develop habits which are incredibly dangerous with a real gun.
• Here's the part that might be controversial for this forum -- we don't think we will tell him that we have guns until we believe he is old enough to handle keeping that information to himself (of course we have a gun safe, but it's not obviously a gun safe, especially to a young child). Why? Because we don't want our son to end up in the situation where all his friends' parents tell their children "you're not allowed to play at Johnny's house any more" because our son blurted out something about our owning guns. Given that we live in Arlington, which despite having an amazingly sane police chief is more Cantabrigian blue by the day, I think that's a very realistic outcome. I imagine some people here will tell us "move to another state" or "find your kid some new friends", but the first isn't an option and how realistic, really, is the second, especially since I bet the odds are that most of any friends he might make will have hoplophobe parents.
• Once he is old enough to be circumspect, we plan to tell him about the guns, take the proper gun handling safety classes, and encourage him to get involved in youth shooting and hope that he'll take an interest in it.

How have you guys handled these issues?

He's your child. Controversial or not you are the parents and you make the decisions on what you decide to tell your children and when, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

My oldest is appraching 5 and I'm supposed to tell her about guns and gun safety and that eddie eagle stuff....but here is the kicker....

She tells everbody everything!!!! Absolutely everything.....no secrets with this kid. At 5 she has no discretion about what to talk about and what not to talk about. I'm keeping my guns secret from my children for a while.....hopefully long enough that they understand not to talk about it in school...

All that is required for a visit from the LPD is that kid making an empty threat concerning a firearm.....I'm not interested in that happening.


Bottom line...you are the parents and it's your decision on what you tell your children and when. But in reading your the logic behind what you said it sounds good to me...But I really loved playing with toy guns when i was a kid..... but I have two girls and they like dolls....so beacause of that I don't share in your dilemma...

 

[Weerd Beard]

He's your child. Controversial or not you are the parents and you make the decisions on what you decide to tell your children and when, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

+1 to that! Having no children of my own, I can't add a ton to this (Though I will say as a child I had toy guns, read violent comic books,watched violent movie, and played violent video games...but because my parents were always sure to teach me the difference between reality and fantasty I've always been the furthest thing from a violent person)

Still nobody should know you child better than you do, and because of that only you can make an accuarte choice on what is best for your children.

Arrrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[stoneypete]

Guns were never kept a secret. They were always used. Always talked about within the family. Anytime they had a question I would show them. Both girls know that Daddy's guns are no-one's business and they don't talk about them. To violate this rule means they don't get to go shooting.

Kylie was 5 when I was testing some reloads and she shot her first gun (Rossi '92 in .44wcf). Alexa was 8 when she shot her first and it was a Colt MKIV S70 in .45acp.

They both (10 and 7 now) shoot .22 exclusively. I want them to be accurate then we'll do more big bore stuff. Each respects muzzle dirrection so much that if I'm cleaning a rifle the refuse to walk in front of it.

As has already been stated, You have to decide what works for your family. Good luck.

 

[Martlet]

I was shooting with my father since my first memory. At age 10 I received my own shotgun (.20 gauge feather weight single shot) for my birthday. Guns were as normal to me in my house as forks and spoons.

I'd also taken 2 hunter safety courses by age 10. I think education and familiarity are the key to a safe, and enjoyable, experience with firearms.

 

[LiquidTed]

Well, now that I have a son (3 months old -- whee! , I have to start thinking about how to handle the whole gun issue. My wife (who also has an LTC-A) and I have been talking about it and we've come to the following preliminary conclusions:

• We will have him go through something like the Eddie Eagle GunSafe teaching of "if you see a gun, Stop! Don't touch it! Leave the area! And tell an adult RIGHT AWAY!"
• We won't let him have toy guns. Not because we're against the concept of people with guns (obviously) but because play with toy guns violates all the gun safety rules (point in a safe direction, finger off trigger until ready to fire, etc.) We don't like the idea of the toy gun leading him to develop habits which are incredibly dangerous with a real gun.
• Here's the part that might be controversial for this forum -- we don't think we will tell him that we have guns until we believe he is old enough to handle keeping that information to himself (of course we have a gun safe, but it's not obviously a gun safe, especially to a young child). Why? Because we don't want our son to end up in the situation where all his friends' parents tell their children "you're not allowed to play at Johnny's house any more" because our son blurted out something about our owning guns. Given that we live in Arlington, which despite having an amazingly sane police chief is more Cantabrigian blue by the day, I think that's a very realistic outcome. I imagine some people here will tell us "move to another state" or "find your kid some new friends", but the first isn't an option and how realistic, really, is the second, especially since I bet the odds are that most of any friends he might make will have hoplophobe parents.
• Once he is old enough to be circumspect, we plan to tell him about the guns, take the proper gun handling safety classes, and encourage him to get involved in youth shooting and hope that he'll take an interest in it.

How have you guys handled these issues?

almost exactly the same, except we allow play with toy guns, mostly water guns.

our neighborhood has a lot of kids and there's a lot of squirt gun play goinng on with the super soakers in the summer.

he hasn't asked for cap guns or anything yet. I think the video games have supplanted that stuff but we'll see as he gets older.

 

[sksguns]

Though I will say as a child I had toy guns, read violent comic books,watched violent movie, and played violent video games...but because my parents were always sure to teach me the difference between reality and fantasty I've always been the furthest thing from a violent person)-Weer'd Beard

I think today that is the biggest issue that you mentioned that is in bold...that is huge.....and I think it gets list today with the internet and how real video games and LACK OF COMMON SENSE!!!! or maybe just kids with bad attitudes...

 

[Weerd Beard]

I think today that is the biggest issue that you mentioned that is in bold...that is huge.....and I think it gets list today with the internet and how real video games and LACK OF COMMON SENSE!!!! or maybe just kids with bad attitudes...

Or nanny staters who like to make regular people trying to make a living the scapegoats for people who do bad things.

 

[sksguns]

Or nanny staters who like to make regular people trying to make a living the scapegoats for people who do bad things.

+1

 

[Chris]

My little one is only 16 months, so it will be about a "blink of an eye" before I have to worry about this, but here is my thoughts....

My kids will be taught the same way I was taught. There are just some things in the house that you do not touch - EVER. But neither are they taboo. Ask and you can see. After a while, it didn't matter. No curiosity, no temptation.

As for others, I really don't care all that much what screwed up concepts of reality they have. Is it possible that some words might cause them to panic? Maybe, but that is really THEIR problem not mine. If some parents refuse to permit their kids to associate with mine, again, it is THEIR problem. The hard part on our end will be to explain to the kids that some adults have very strong beliefs that are different than ours and not calling them "fu**ing liberals".

Now if my kids do talk about things or act in a negative way, (and I don't care if it is guns, women, kids with glasses, or anything) then I certainly want to know about it and will deal with it.

But if the school goes into lockdown because my son tells his classmate about the fun he had at Junior Rifle, I will be there to back my kids 100% and demand that the system deal with its problem and stop creating irrational fear.

All my neighbors know what I do. The cops obviously know. I know the laws and abide by them while I push for logical changes. I will NOT be bullied by ignorant fear mongers into living my life as if I had bodies buried in my yard. It is they that have the irrational fears that must be dealt with.

I'm done with the "Maybe they'll go away if I pretend I don't exist" thinking. That's the type of attitude that created this mess in the first place.

I fully expect that there will be problems. In fact, I would be surprised if there wasn't. But to bend to the wills of the liberal majority is never going to make things better. I know for a fact that Rosa Parks knew she was risking a lot when she sat in that bus. Two black soldiers had been beaten to death for doing it just weeks earlier. While i don't think standing up for my rights regarding firearms is life threatening, I also do not think it will be without its confrontations.

I've had my wife ask "but what about our kids?"

What about them? Some of this will be hard for them to understand to be sure. Heck, I'm sure the kids from every minority that ever set foot in this country had events and confrontations that they couldn't understand. However, as they mature, and we show them the love and support and the same rock solid fundamental morals that we always abide by, I can't see them having any problem adapting.

Besides, its Damn UnAmerican to cave in to 'Man'.

 

[Pilgrim]

When my oldest granddaughter reached 10, I took her to the range and taught her the 4 rules and how to shoot. I got her her very own .22. Every time we'd go to the range or even talked about guns, I always had her recite the rules. She knew that if a friend was over and somehow saw one of my guns, don't touch, leave, tell an adult, was the law. There was no mystique about guns with her. She knew them for what they were, dangerous when not handled properly. On her 12th Christmas, she got her own Henry levergun.

As soon as she was learning, her then 4 year old sister started with the training. I would show her her sister's gun and tell her that when she was bigger, she'd have one too. The 'don't touch, etc' was drummed into her as well. I'd leave my unloaded handgun where she would see it and see how she would behave. At 4, she was curious but never touched it. One day I could see that she wanted to so I picked it up, gave it to her and let her look at over and feel it...while talking to her about it. Her young curiosity was satisfied.

Now at 6 she has her own BB gun and .22 Cricket and behaves very well with it. No more overly curious, she accepts guns as something to have fun with when she's with her grandfather.

Start them early.....make them understand that there is no mystery to them so they won't feel the need to play with them while you're not there.

Amanda at 14

Emily at 6:

 

[codenamepaul]

Chris/Pilgrim-I'm with you guys.

I never allowed toy guns in my home.Know what? Didn't make a lick of difference. A boy will make a finger gun and go bang. A stick will become a rifle. Oh well.

Both of them got their first at 9, requisite being that they had to be able to recite the 10 Commandments of gun safety-from memory. Some, obviously, did not apply, but I wanted to challenge them. They got to touch, and handle any gun they wanted-and most importantly-any time they wanted. I made absolutely certain that I dropped whatever I was doing to spend the time showing them. It serves two purposes 1) it shows them that nothing takes precedence over time with them and 2) reinforces the importance of the safety aspect of gun ownership. I also believe it serves the need for instant gratification so innate with our kids these days.

I could give a shit what anyone else thinks about my gun ownership and have made no indication to my kids that they should not talk about it. If they do and they are questioned, I have full faith (in my daughter at least) to have the wherewithal to make her side known in an intelligent manner. If her friends' parents have issue, it hasn't come up, nor are there any conspicuous absences of friends coming over. They all know I have a house full.

Sorry so long that's my 50 cents.

 

[jamz]

As said before, depends on the kid. My boy I started at around 4 handling them, teaching the 4 rules, etc. Now at 7, he's pretty good. My girl, now 4, is just a big ball of silly. While I let her handle them very occaisionally, I don't see the attention in her that I saw in him at that age. I'm sure it will eventually change for her, but it goes to show, it depends on the kid.

We let the boy play with nerf guns. He knows the difference between play and the real thing. Only time we've realy come down on him like a parental ton of bricks is once when he got really mad at his sister and aimed his cocked nerf gun at her. (i.e. the difference between shooting people in fun and shooting people just because you are mad at them.) Obviously the latter isn't appropriate.

I've never cared what the neighbors thought.

 

[lagrangian]

Thanks for a lot of good posts, guys! Good stuff to think about. I like your points about not worrying about toy guns but making sure the kid understands the difference between fantasy and reality. As for what some of you said, if it was just me and my wife, I'd be in the "screw what the neighbors think" camp, too -- I'm definitely inclined that way. But I'd want my son to be able to have his friends over, too. Well, we'll see how things go when we get there

 

[Cato]

[*]We won't let him have toy guns. Not because we're against the concept of people with guns (obviously) but because play with toy guns violates all the gun safety rules (point in a safe direction, finger off trigger until ready to fire, etc.) We don't like the idea of the toy gun leading him to develop habits which are incredibly dangerous with a real gun.

IMO that would not be a concern. If it was then it would apply to a lot of toys. You probably have seen those toy car dashboards. The kids will wildly play with the steering wheel and slam the stick shift. It would not be too safe to do this in a real vehicle. Then there are the toy circular saws and hammers. They will pretend to cut everything in the house in half. Maybe even a guest's leg. Toy guns are good for kids if you are good parents. My friends and I sure saved a lot of people and shot some crooks in the woods back in the early 60s.

...we don't think we will tell him that we have guns until we believe he is old enough to handle keeping that information to himself...

Try not to make him think that owning guns is something "dirty". It shouldn't be a family secret like if uncle Harry is a transvestite. Guns are nothing special. If you mistakenly instill in him the idea that owning guns is something to hide he may never get over it. He should realize that he is the normal one and those with mental issues that cause them to fear inanimate objects are the nuts.

But I respect your right to raise him as you please. Congratulations and good luck with the new family!

 

[Thor67]

I've talked with my daughter, had safety training with her, and gun part ID training with her, and taken her to the range.

I live in a funny little part of MA where almost all of the families I know have firearms and hunt. However, we send our daughter to private school, where that is not the case. It's more mixed.

So, while she's had the training, all of her local friends have had training, and some of her private school friends have at least some knowledge of firearms, not all do.

The rule in our house has become not to talk about it at school. My reasoning is that it's family business and you don't discuss family business outside of the family. I've been forthright with her and told her my views on firearms, given her the 8 yr old version of a Constitution and history lesson, but explained that people have mixed views on firearms, and not everyone gets it.

Re: toy guns - We don't allow them. I had them growing up, had big fun with them, but now as a gun owner, I think they teach poor safety habits, and don't want them in my home.

As an aside, I've seen a couple of studies that show that kids who are trained with firearms are much less likely to have an accident with a gun, and are less likely to pick up a found firearm and use it as a toy.

 

[Bandit]

Our Daughter was shooting with a NRA Jr. Team at 10 .
When She was in the 2nd or 3rd. grade We were at a PTO Meeting and one parent brought up the idea that We should make up a questioner and guide to send home that covered do's and dont's about " play dates "
I could only guess where this was going , and was right.
She wanted to ask if the parents kept gun's in the house on it.
When I raised My hand , the wife kicked Me ,
But all I said was , that I saw No Problem with that question , as long as they included , if the parents , or anyone in the house practiced any form's of Kinky Sex while there Children had Friends over . That worried Me more than safely stored legal firearms. Several parents agreed with Me .
Bob
Ps
They dropped the idea .