Liberty Safe Confirms They Gave Feds Access Code to Gun Safe During Raid on January 6 Protester

40 Creedmoor fan said:
Lotsa misinformation here. Let me clear some up:
  • Locked safes are not subject to general location warrant. If a safe is found on-premises, it needs a warrant to access it
Click to expand...
A "General location warrant" is impermissible. A search warrant has to specify what's being searched for. For example, in the case I link to below, the court ruled that a clause reading "any other illegally kept controlled drugs or firearms of various descriptions" was invalid.

In Commonwealth vs. Manuel J. Fernandes, after being served a search warrant, the defendant "voluntarily" opened the safe containing coke and hash. The court ruled against the motion to suppress, not because of consent, but solely on the basis of the valid part of the warrant.

U.S. v. Wright, 704 F.2d 420 (8 Cir. 1983) and United States v. Johnson,709 F.2d 515 (8 Cir. 1983), for example, also held that a warrant for the premises included the power to open a locked safe. If you know of cases ruling otherwise, I'd love to see them.
 
Dench said:
I'm just telling you how it's been done. That's how they do it. Force a custom OS update that bypasses whatever.
Click to expand...
www.theverge.com

Here’s how the FBI managed to get into the San Bernardino shooter’s iPhone

The end to a mystery that’s been around for years.
www.theverge.com www.theverge.com
Massive amounts of insanity in congress about needing backdoors in order to combat terrorism and then suddenly silence...
Ask yourself why?
Tyrants crave tyranny and don't normally give up without looking down a barrel or up a rope.
What changed to make them stop publicly calling for backdoors in phones?
 
watchman said:
Most skin flints here on NES have nothing more than a gun locker but own $$$$$ amounts of guns. Just think 1 person with just 4 decent value shotguns is close to that 16,000.00 dollar mark and throw in a few 45's at 1500.00 a couple of Dad's old worthless pythons maybe some nice rifles and well the total is 30K all day long. Let's not forget the many here on NES who lie to their wife about what they spent on guns instead of hookers and blow! We all have our failings!
Click to expand...

Even if you have 30-50k in guns going with a 16k safe is not a very efficient use of cash unless you have a unique item that can't be replaced or your insurance requires a higher level of security.

Every safe can be opened by a highly determined and skilled attacker.
However the chance that you are targeted by a skilled attacker is almost indistinguishable from zero for the vast majority of us.

Something that stops the local crackhead looking for a fast grab is perfectly fine for 99%.

That said - I'd rather lose the money on a drilled safe and be able to clearly argue a 4A violation than give up the combo then pay a lawyer a few thousand more to argue that I gave it up under duress.
 
pastera said:
The factory backdoor code is available for $25 and some paperwork

www.libertysafe.com

Liberty Safe Lost Combination & Key Replacement Form | Liberty Safe

Use our form to request your Liberty Safe combination or key replacement for your home or gun safe. A credit card or check is required, and the form must be notarized to be approved.
www.libertysafe.com www.libertysafe.com

I thought I had a Winchester safe but its a Liberty - will be pulling the lock sometime soon to see if the microprocessor is locked. If not I'll pull the code and see if if there is a universal code in the firmware or if a backdoor is stored in flash/eeprom
Click to expand...

Don't screw around with investigating your digital lock.

Just get one of these:

Amazon product ASIN B01MQMM72AView: https://www.amazon.com/Sargent-Greenleaf-6730-100-Safe-Lock/dp/B01MQMM72A/


I got the 6730-102, which has a different shape dial but is otherwise the same. The installation is this much -->][<-- harder than the beep-beep-beep locks because you have to be a bit more careful about inside/outside alignment. But it's not hard.

The beep-beep-beep types can fail without warning in a way that requires drilling to gain access.
 
Reptile said:
Procedure for the child locked in the safe...

Many safes have a hole for dehumidifier wiring. Also, unless in a fire, there is not a airtight seal around the door either.

If you duct tape a vacuum cleaner hose to those areas - or use a drill to cut a small hole - you can create enough suction from the vacuum to create a fresh airflow.

You duct tape the hose to the bottom of the door and tape up the rest of the bottom and up the sides. The fresh air will come in from the top of the door.

A child will die of thirst before suffocating.

The constant vacuum will create enough air flow to keep the child alive.

Just tell the child the vacuum will be noisy and turn it off every 10 minutes to reassure the child that help is on the way.

Even air from fish tank air tube constantly blowing into a small hole is enough to keep O2 at a good level.
Click to expand...
Nope - the vacuum will draw the door closed against the seals and block off air flow

Fish tank air pump into a small hole would work as it would very slightly pressurize the container pushing the door off its seals
 
milktree said:
Don't screw around with investigating your digital lock.

Just get one of these:

Amazon product ASIN B01MQMM72AView: https://www.amazon.com/Sargent-Greenleaf-6730-100-Safe-Lock/dp/B01MQMM72A/


I got the 6730-102, which has a different shape dial but is otherwise the same. The installation is this much -->][<-- harder than the beep-beep-beep locks because you have to be a bit more careful about inside/outside alignment. But it's not hard.

The beep-beep-beep types can fail without warning in a way that requires drilling to gain access.
Click to expand...
I do that stuff as an academic exercise - some of us are geeks that enjoy geeking out and creating new knowledge.
 
It's satisfying to watch the counter-progressives inflict pain on businesses for stuff like supporting wokeism, tyranny, etc. It's been far too one-sided for far too long. As the left figured out a long time ago, businesses are extremely sensitive/vulnerable in this space and therefore terrified of getting called out. Calling them out is absurdly easy to do with social media. The right needs to do more to cow corporations into positions of political neutrality.
 
pastera said:
I do that stuff as an academic exercise - some of us are geeks that enjoy geeking out and creating new knowledge.
Click to expand...

Oh, I totally get that.

My point is that the digital ones wear out, and when they fail, they fail suddenly and completely.

I installed an Amsec beep-beep-beep in my safe, thinking, "it's electronics, and not even complicated electronics, it'll be reliable. Fuel injection in cars from the '80s works just fine. Tech on this level is pretty well understood.

But then it... just stopped working. I called Amsec and read some of their documentation and they said, "replace them every five years" or something like that, because reasons.

In my case it turned out to be the keypad. A locksmith showed up prepared to drill, but bought a new keypad just in case. (how the hell does the *KEYPAD* fail? It wasn't the buttons, it was the electronics in the pad) At that point, based on "replace every five years" and "sudden complete failure", I replaced it with the S&G mechanical lock. The mechanical ones will give you way, way more warning before locking you out.



Side note: I replace the original AmSec mechanical lock because it was black on polished brass, it was really hard to read in the light where my safe was. Bad contrast and lots of reflections.

The S&G is white on black and much, much easier to read. Barely slower than digital.
 
So now if you are doing research on a new safe, one has to inquire if the safe has a master code/combination and if the company will violate your privacy or not. Liberty needs to be fully transparent on what they did in this case. The very essence of their product is the security of a person's "papers and effects". And the privacy/security issues between the govt & companies that have sold you something go far beyond Liberty Safe Co.
 
milktree said:
I replaced it with the S&G mechanical lock.
Click to expand...
[rockon]
When I bought my first safe upon returning to MA, I purchased it at the same time as a friend who is a locksmith. He made sure the dials were S+G and then he changed the combos on them both.

Hogie1 said:
The very essence of their product is the security of a person's "papers and effects".
Click to expand...
I think this probably did more to change their minds than gun owners. Think of all the business, jewelry and personal safes out there that belong to both sides of the political aisle.
 
Reptile said:
So, if they have a warrant to search your safe...

They say they'll bust it open if you don't open it for them.

You object to the search.

If they are going to break it open anyway - can you just open it for them to avoid damages to your safe?

Or, is opening it for them implying consent?
Click to expand...
That's implied consent.

I had a firearm confiscated by law enforcement when the previous owner was arrested for a non-violent crime. It was made very clear if I did not turn it over it would be impeding a police investigation, I would lose my ltc, and be brought up on criminal charges.

I complied, handed over the firearm in question. When I contacted an attorney it basically summed up to "I surrendered the firearm voluntarily" and not I was placed under duress and forced into it.

Before this incident I was 100% pro police and donated to both state and local police drives. Not anymore. The previous owner had his charges dropped as a 1a violation, and is currently pursuing legal action against the police involved in his arrest 🤷‍♂️
 
Drix said:
That's implied consent.

I had a firearm confiscated by law enforcement when the previous owner was arrested for a non-violent crime. It was made very clear if I did not turn it over it would be impeding a police investigation, I would lose my ltc, and be brought up on criminal charges.

I complied, handed over the firearm in question. When I contacted an attorney it basically summed up to "I surrendered the firearm voluntarily" and not I was placed under duress and forced into it.

Before this incident I was 100% pro police and donated to both state and local police drives. Not anymore. The previous owner had his charges dropped as a 1a violation, and is currently pursuing legal action against the police involved in his arrest 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
Did you get the gun back?
 
milktree said:
Oh, I totally get that.

My point is that the digital ones wear out, and when they fail, they fail suddenly and completely.

I installed an Amsec beep-beep-beep in my safe, thinking, "it's electronics, and not even complicated electronics, it'll be reliable. Fuel injection in cars from the '80s works just fine. Tech on this level is pretty well understood.

But then it... just stopped working. I called Amsec and read some of their documentation and they said, "replace them every five years" or something like that, because reasons.

In my case it turned out to be the keypad. A locksmith showed up prepared to drill, but bought a new keypad just in case. (how the hell does the *KEYPAD* fail? It wasn't the buttons, it was the electronics in the pad) At that point, based on "replace every five years" and "sudden complete failure", I replaced it with the S&G mechanical lock. The mechanical ones will give you way, way more warning before locking you out.



Side note: I replace the original AmSec mechanical lock because it was black on polished brass, it was really hard to read in the light where my safe was. Bad contrast and lots of reflections.

The S&G is white on black and much, much easier to read. Barely slower than digital.
Click to expand...
My biggest issue with mechanical is combination change - have never done one.
With electronic, code changes are straight forward and easy.
 
These are the best locks to use. I have installed thousands of these on Government safes. Unless they have changed their policy recently there is no backdoor into these. Also they are a bitch to breach. Takes special tools and very specific know how. After breaching a few we just drilled the safe walls or in the case where they were on scif doors we drilled the door and reached in to unlock them. Drilling the lock is no fun and can be messed up even when doing it right. They have different metal rods and tubes that cause the bits to walk off of the part needing drilled.
www.kabamas.com

X-10 High-Security Lock

National Stock Numbers (NSN) Defense Logistics Agency (DLA): 5340-01-625-9851 General Services Agency (GSA): 5340-01-613-2078 Find a Distributor The X-10 was developed as a result of the latest…
www.kabamas.com www.kabamas.com
 
milktree said:
Don't screw around with investigating your digital lock.

Just get one of these:

Amazon product ASIN B01MQMM72AView: https://www.amazon.com/Sargent-Greenleaf-6730-100-Safe-Lock/dp/B01MQMM72A/


I got the 6730-102, which has a different shape dial but is otherwise the same. The installation is this much -->][<-- harder than the beep-beep-beep locks because you have to be a bit more careful about inside/outside alignment. But it's not hard.

The beep-beep-beep types can fail without warning in a way that requires drilling to gain access.
Click to expand...
Avoid the 6741 - it is the same as the 6730 but uses zymac (zinc allow) wheels instead of aluminum and brass to hit a lower price point.

 
simple solution for NES members. Everybody remove your keypads and then we'll have a 'keypad swap BBQ'

edit: by keypad I mean all of the electronics
 
Last edited:
captainbly said:
These are the best locks to use. I have installed thousands of these on Government safes. Unless they have changed their policy recently there is no backdoor into these. Also they are a bitch to breach. Takes special tools and very specific know how. After breaching a few we just drilled the safe walls or in the case where they were on scif doors we drilled the door and reached in to unlock them. Drilling the lock is no fun and can be messed up even when doing it right. They have different metal rods and tubes that cause the bits to walk off of the part needing drilled.
www.kabamas.com

X-10 High-Security Lock

National Stock Numbers (NSN) Defense Logistics Agency (DLA): 5340-01-625-9851 General Services Agency (GSA): 5340-01-613-2078 Find a Distributor The X-10 was developed as a result of the latest…
www.kabamas.com www.kabamas.com
Click to expand...
Great lock, but over $1000 and you have to scrounge as the legitimate distributors will sell only to approved government agencies. Ditto for the S&G 2740.
 
pastera said:
My biggest issue with mechanical is combination change - have never done one.
With electronic, code changes are straight forward and easy.
Click to expand...
Mechanical lock combination changes are easy (at least for mainstream brands like S&G, LaGard and Big Red) , and there are plenty of you tube videos on how to do it.

Eastern Security hammers customers something like $50 to change the combination on a safe when you buy it (no service call). 10 minutes work, including taking your time to be extra careful.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Mechanical lock combination changes are easy (at least for mainstream brands like S&G, LaGard and Big Red) , and there are plenty of you tube videos on how to do it.

Eastern Security hammers customers something like $50 to change the combination on a safe when you buy it (no service call). 10 minutes work, including taking your time to be extra careful.
Click to expand...

Yea... it takes a lot longer to get at the works (removing the safe's inner vanity covers) than it does to change the combination.
 
milktree said:
Yea... it takes a lot longer to get at the works (removing the safe's inner vanity covers) than it does to change the combination.
Click to expand...
I forgot to mention - get the combination change key when buying a safe. It is generally included with the lock, but many dealers like Eastern try to withhold it for your own protection.
 

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