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Long Range Rifle
- Thread starter MaverickNH
- Start date
GunGrey
Banned
I need to stop looking on this thread from time to time, you guys are just putting the worst ideas into my head. I really like Sniper centrals deal im thinkin thats how i want to go when i finally save the money up.
Then again i do need to start building my credit and i could easily pay off that amount in a year? See what i mean the worst ideas
Then again i do need to start building my credit and i could easily pay off that amount in a year? See what i mean the worst ideas
Way back when I was competing in service rifle, I used one from Champion's Choice. It worked fine for me. Looks like the price has gone up since I got mine: http://www.champchoice.com/prod-CC_GRAY_RIFLEMAN_SHOOTING_MAT__DOUBLE_-1010.aspx
People on Cape Cod are even worse, I've come across a few people that hadn't been over the bridge their whole lives!
Hell, more than half of the people from Athol and Orange have never seen the ocean.
perhaps I can finally chime in.
finally got a 'stick that might stay capable past 1k.
eventually gonna wear a 30" .308/1:13 tightbore Krieger...although I'm a sling-shooter, no idea where I'd attach a bipod. I do know that any points I drop are gonna be my own damned fault though
scope will be a Leupold VX-III, 6.5-20 EFR, probably a target dot (liked that reticle) on a Larue QD mount. gotta let the bank account recover a bit first though.
finally got a 'stick that might stay capable past 1k.
eventually gonna wear a 30" .308/1:13 tightbore Krieger...although I'm a sling-shooter, no idea where I'd attach a bipod. I do know that any points I drop are gonna be my own damned fault though
scope will be a Leupold VX-III, 6.5-20 EFR, probably a target dot (liked that reticle) on a Larue QD mount. gotta let the bank account recover a bit first though.
cockpitbob
NES Member
13" twist seems kinda slow for 1K yards. What bullet are you going to use?
155gr SMK's (Sierra 2155 or 2156). at ~ 3000FPS, they do the job @ 1k quite well.
there aren't even any matches in the US that *require* 155's that I'm aware of...but CharlieT made a good point... if i really want to learn to read wind @ 1k, the 155's are going to be a bit more of a challenge.
who knows. i may well cave and shoot some 175gr SMKs, either way a 30" 1/13 still oughta stabilize them with ease.
I did just *test fire* the 6XC though. Holy crap, i was really expecting quite a bit more recoil wise....thing feels like my service rifle!
who knows. i may well cave and shoot some 175gr SMKs, either way a 30" 1/13 still oughta stabilize them with ease.
I did just *test fire* the 6XC though. Holy crap, i was really expecting quite a bit more recoil wise....thing feels like my service rifle!
cockpitbob
NES Member
{anecdotal} I had a friend shooting sierra 175MKs through a 1:13" and was OK at 800 but was making keyholes at 1Kyrds unless he ran his hottest load. I've only shot 10" twist barrels and have never had a keyholing problem, even with a 175MK going subsonic at 800.
Anyway, educate me on something please. I know the advantages of a faster twist (stabilize longer bullets) but what is the advantage of a slower twist?
Anyway, educate me on something please. I know the advantages of a faster twist (stabilize longer bullets) but what is the advantage of a slower twist?
Slower twist work better with crappy projectiles. They use to use selected lots of ball ammo in the Commonwealth countries that shot the Palma. This dissappered about 15 years ago after the 93 Palma and the introduction of the 155 Sierra. Many found out how much more fun it is to have truly accurate ammunition and went home and worked to have their own nations NRA use better projectiles for their National Matches. Radway Green and PMP in South Africa and I think ADI in Australia all developed a 155gr match grade projectiles in the mid-late 90s that were substituted for the crappy ball projectiles.
The benefits of a slower twist come from the non-uniform jackets & cores (in comparison to match grade projectiles). Most inaccuracy in projectiles comes from mass imbalance issues. Those problems are exacerbated by spinning them fast. Sort of like an unbalanced top.
The 155 Palma weighs what is does, because the US was being nice and not making all the guest nations re-barrel their rifles. A lot of them at the time used 1/14 tight bores and it was felt that 155 grs. was an appropriate weight that could work at 1000 yards with the existing rifles that countries already had. 155 is really a compromise projectile for the .308. Given the option, I think most US riflemen would have gone for a 190. All this is really acedemic though, because matches can be won by riflemen shooting either.
B
The benefits of a slower twist come from the non-uniform jackets & cores (in comparison to match grade projectiles). Most inaccuracy in projectiles comes from mass imbalance issues. Those problems are exacerbated by spinning them fast. Sort of like an unbalanced top.
The 155 Palma weighs what is does, because the US was being nice and not making all the guest nations re-barrel their rifles. A lot of them at the time used 1/14 tight bores and it was felt that 155 grs. was an appropriate weight that could work at 1000 yards with the existing rifles that countries already had. 155 is really a compromise projectile for the .308. Given the option, I think most US riflemen would have gone for a 190. All this is really acedemic though, because matches can be won by riflemen shooting either.
B
cockpitbob
NES Member
BPM, thanks for the nice explanation. That clears up a lot for me.
glad he explained it, cause i have no idea
I just pull the trigger. i've never done "load development" for rifles. no need too. too many people with *identical* rig's that have already done all the homework. i just ask the right people what to load, load it, and shoot it. so far, haven't been able to blame anything on the ammo
You're welcome. BTW, I've shot 175 Berger VLDs out of my 1/13 and had good luck at 1000 yards at NY & Quantico. They were stable and accurate enough for the LR target with a 1 MOA X ring.
The Miller Stability calculator at JBM shows the Sierra 175 comfortably stable at 2700 fps.
I'm always curious as to why things sometimes work in one rifle, and not another.
B
The Miller Stability calculator at JBM shows the Sierra 175 comfortably stable at 2700 fps.
I'm always curious as to why things sometimes work in one rifle, and not another.
B
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
cockpitbob
NES Member
...He wanted the Camp Perry air to be in the cases......
B
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
Bwaa Haaa Haaa. What a screwball.On the other hand, my Granddad was an accuracy nut and I'm sure in the 1940s anyone that floated the full length of their barrel would have been given the same reaction. For every 1,000 screwballs there's 1 that advances the sport a little. Case in point: what dimwit got the crazy idea to stretch a .22ppc case out to 30 caliber and try to shoot benchrest with that. Ya just never know until you try.
Now it's officially a "sniper"
first piece of glass I've ever owned. Honestly, shooting scoped is kinda nice. its fun dryfiring offhand on 8.5power. apparently my wobble is better than I thought it was
(glass is a Leupold Mark4 LR/T 8.5-25, mildot reticle / MOA adjustments.)
Just waiting on a riser/extended rail from Holliger. I need to move the scope ~ 3" forward to get my head where it should be and still have the proper eye relief, and I'm 35MOA up for a 100yd zero (75MOA elevation total, the new 20MOA base will give me a little more head room for LR)
first piece of glass I've ever owned. Honestly, shooting scoped is kinda nice. its fun dryfiring offhand on 8.5power. apparently my wobble is better than I thought it was
(glass is a Leupold Mark4 LR/T 8.5-25, mildot reticle / MOA adjustments.)
Just waiting on a riser/extended rail from Holliger. I need to move the scope ~ 3" forward to get my head where it should be and still have the proper eye relief, and I'm 35MOA up for a 100yd zero (75MOA elevation total, the new 20MOA base will give me a little more head room for LR)
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
GunGrey
Banned
anybody running somthing other than a bolt gun? Recce or SPR? I know those are really more suited toward DMR rifles and not really LR guns, but the more and more i look at them the more im wandering away from an Bolt Gun
I already have a lower setup and ready to go just have to pull the trigger so to speak on a upper, While with a Bolt gun i need to by the rifle, stock it an add some glass. And right now as a broke college kid a precision AR is looking a little more doable. And plus i dont have the time to drive out to NY or NH to go shoot LR.
I already have a lower setup and ready to go just have to pull the trigger so to speak on a upper, While with a Bolt gun i need to by the rifle, stock it an add some glass. And right now as a broke college kid a precision AR is looking a little more doable. And plus i dont have the time to drive out to NY or NH to go shoot LR.
ChevyGuy91
NES Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
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I think I am going to go SPR-ish with my Zombie lower I got from the AWS group buy. I have an 18" rifle length gas WOA barrel on my "3gun" (for lack of a better description) rifle, and it is by far my favorite to shoot. It is set up to recoil very soft, but even when I have the gas system all the way open, it still cycles softly and is an absolute tack driver with good ammo, and does well even with cheap value pack ammo. I am going to order an other barrel just like it one of these days, and assemble a more practical rifle around it.
This with a rifle gas system and a fit bolt;
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449
This with a rifle gas system and a fit bolt;
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=449
I have that same barrel as Ed and got it from Rainier Arms too. They matched a Young Mfg chrome bolt for me at the time of the order. It will hammer at 100 no problem, even with cheap-o Ultramax bulk ammo (also Rainier Arms is a great company to work with) haven't had a chance to stretch it out further yet.
I did go for a kind of SPR build with this rifle, sitting on top is a Sightron SII 3-9x42 that was originally on my Savage .30-06 that I sold off. I find the rings just a little too low to get really comfortable behind, and I'm not sure if I want to replace it with a 1-4x or go for something from Nightforce in a higher magnification. The Sightron is nice, but it's just a duplex reticle, so I can't really range with it.
If I'm able to attend that scoped rifle class at Weaponcraft, that's the stick I'll be bringing.
I did go for a kind of SPR build with this rifle, sitting on top is a Sightron SII 3-9x42 that was originally on my Savage .30-06 that I sold off. I find the rings just a little too low to get really comfortable behind, and I'm not sure if I want to replace it with a 1-4x or go for something from Nightforce in a higher magnification. The Sightron is nice, but it's just a duplex reticle, so I can't really range with it.
If I'm able to attend that scoped rifle class at Weaponcraft, that's the stick I'll be bringing.
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Me too! I've got their UltraMatch rifle-length 18" SPR barrel with a 14" DD Lite rail. It's a bit heavy, but pounding 6" plates at 300 has been trivial, even with my action-shooting twitchyness. That's not much indication about the mechanical accuracy, of course...
Not sure I'd want to try it past 500 or so with my skill level.
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they are doing FINE in 1000 yd matches with AR's these days. Nothing beyond 500 yds is practical, anyway, you have to waste too much time setting up the shot. Miltary snipers can call in help if they bite off more than they can chew. You cannot. You also cannot tell if the guy you shoot is just the scout for 50 more that you don't see. So why fire at him, anyway?
Wtf? This thread isn't about military snipers and killshots past 1k....its about marksmanship at long range (200-600 is mid range, 600-1000 is long range....as a rule).
And yes, an AR15 can reach out to 1000....but the work involved in getting it to hit 1k reliably isnt worthwhile considering the myriad of calibers at our disposal. My goal at any sort of range...especially prone....is to keep my shots inside of a 2MOA circle. Sometimes I do it...sometimes the wind gets me. The fun is in trying.
And yes, an AR15 can reach out to 1000....but the work involved in getting it to hit 1k reliably isnt worthwhile considering the myriad of calibers at our disposal. My goal at any sort of range...especially prone....is to keep my shots inside of a 2MOA circle. Sometimes I do it...sometimes the wind gets me. The fun is in trying.
