MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[HARRYM]

Bewitched, 1970's Uncle Arthur, Warlock.

I know.....I made a bad assumption that people would get the connection.....I missed.....

 

[Hardwired]

You are aware of course that GOAL is the officiaL state association of the NRA right.

I really don’t care about the NRA. I joined the GOA years back. The NRA the leftists evil “Gun Lobbeee” is dead.

 

[HARRYM]

I really don’t care about the NRA. I joined the GOA years back. The NRA the leftists evil “Gun Lobbeee” is dead.

Mark Twain would like a word.....

 

[Taipan01]

I know.....I made a bad assumption that people would get the connection.....I missed.....

By that much.

 

[Joeldiaz]

I really don’t care about the NRA. I joined the GOA years back. The NRA the leftists evil “Gun Lobbeee” is dead.

The point is that you telling someone not to support the NRA and to support GOAL instead is ironic because you actually are supporting the NRA by supporting GOAL.

 

[1903Collector]

I really don’t care about the NRA. I joined the GOA years back. The NRA the leftists evil “Gun Lobbeee” is dead.

They are useful in that it gives all the anti groups a bad guy to focus on, meanwhile GOA, SAF and others work quietly in the background.

 

[HARRYM]

My neighbor thinks its fine to leave his dog outside barking non stop. I asked him to control his animal, he said I was harassing him.........could this lead to issues under the new bill where anyone can file a harassment order against you.

 

[Nick Fury]

A new . Org that organizes Peacefull protest in Front of these clowns homes when they try to violate our god given rights.

A white male protesting anything is not viewed as peaceful. I would suggest starting there and then work your way forward…

 

[Darksideblues42]

So has @GOAL come out yet and said what thier plan of attack is if this thing is passed In its current configuration or any configuration for that matter? I havnt heard or seen anything posted yet of that nature.
Any mention from any of the other 2a orgs like FPC, GOA,NAGR, ect?

GOAL is a lobbying organization.

They do not (typically) sue.

Comm2A works with the national groups to sue.

 

[Coyote33]

All of these cases in the post-Bruen era are still in their infancy, relatively speaking.

And why is that?

Sixth Amendment​

Sixth Amendment Explained
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, ..."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/

Sure, it is not a "trial", but the intent is "speedy justice", is it not?

They want to give the inferior courts as much benefit of the doubt as possible. SCOTUS not acting isn’t an indication that they’re not sensitive to the issues going on with 2A cases around the country.

Understood.

It’s showing respect to the courts’ procedures in managing their own dockets. Procedural posture is very important to them.

Then why are people saying they did some sort of smackdown on something else. Was it "Caetano"?

 

[Joeldiaz]

And why is that?

Sixth Amendment​

Sixth Amendment Explained
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, ..."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/

Sure, it is not a "trial", but the intent is "speedy justice", is it not?

The vast majority of these 2A cases are civil lawsuits, not criminal. There’s no right to a speedy trial in a civil case.

Then why are people saying they did some sort of smackdown on something else. Was it "Caetano"?

In Caetano, SCOTUS unanimously vacated the ruling of the MA SJC which convicted the petitioner of the crime of possessing a stun gun in MA. The SJC upheld the ban on stun guns by misstating Heller in 3 respects. SCOTUS summarily reversed and remanded the case.

The difference between Caetano and Bianchi is that Bianchi is still on interlocutory appeal. Caetano was not.

 

[slipknot]

This bill isn't law yet - the committees working it won't hear about the legal and constitutional issues in the bill from the other side. GOAL is there to let them know that parts of this bill will cost the state millions in legal fees.

I hope they also add in that it does nothing for safety and doesn't address mental health or the lack of prosecution of existing laws.

 

[Woodsloafer]

A white male protesting anything is not viewed as peaceful. I would suggest starting there and then work your way forward…

Yup, especially in a liberal state like MA, it's frucked up but that how things have turned. A group of white men peacefully protesting is more threatening than BLM riots to many people (including our governor).

 

[Picton]

And why is that?

Sixth Amendment​

Sixth Amendment Explained
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, ..."

https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/

Sure, it is not a "trial", but the intent is "speedy justice", is it not?



Understood.


Then why are people saying they did some sort of smackdown on something else. Was it "Caetano"?

These aren't criminal trials.

And the right to a speedy trial refers to the actual trial, not to its appeals. SCOTUS is a court of appeal, mostly. Its original jurisdiction does not extend to overruling state laws in the first instance.

 

[STVNMCCC]

After reading GOAL'S summary of section 6, I'm trying to figure out if I'm interpreting this correctly. It says that a firearm is considered an "assault weapon" if "the gun is a semiautomatic rifle or handgun that was manufactured or subsequently configured with an ability to accept a detachable magazine or a semiautomatic shotgun." Am I reading this right? Does this mean that they are trying to ban all semi auto handguns that can take a mag?

 

[Taipan01]

After reading GOAL'S summary of section 6, I'm trying to figure out if I'm interpreting this correctly. It says that a firearm is considered an "assault weapon" if "the gun is a semiautomatic rifle or handgun that was manufactured or subsequently configured with an ability to accept a detachable magazine or a semiautomatic shotgun." Am I reading this right? Does this mean that they are trying to ban all semi auto handguns that can take a mag?

That's what it seems to say or rather all semies with a detachable mag, that's what I could get out it of the other day.

Adding: 8 years worth going by the 2016 Healy proclamation. A 2-year old could construct a clearer messaging than the lot of them did with this monstrosity besides "guns bad."

 

[STVNMCCC]

That's what it seems to say or rather all semies with a detachable mag, that's what I could get out it of the other day.

Adding: 8 years worth going by the 2016 Healy proclamation. A 2-year old could construct a clearer messaging than the lot of them did with this monstrosity besides "guns bad."

It’s too bad the average gun owner has no idea what the hell is going on with the f**ery that they’re trying to pass.

 

[Broc Tuah]

I hope they also add in that it does nothing for safety and doesn't address mental health or the lack of prosecution of existing laws.

Why do people continue to believe they care about this?

That is just the BS they sell the public. You all need to get past this and stop trying to think that argument will make a difference.

 

[VTski4x4]

After reading GOAL'S summary of section 6, I'm trying to figure out if I'm interpreting this correctly. It says that a firearm is considered an "assault weapon" if "the gun is a semiautomatic rifle or handgun that was manufactured or subsequently configured with an ability to accept a detachable magazine or a semiautomatic shotgun." Am I reading this right? Does this mean that they are trying to ban all semi auto handguns that can take a mag?

Correct- and I believe the House Bill also banned revolvers (unless that part got amended)

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Been busy all week…what’s the latest status on this piece of communist garbage? Did they reconcile house and senate yet? Is there a draft of the final proposed bill posted anywhere?

 

[Taipan01]

Been busy all week…what’s the latest status on this piece of communist garbage? Did they reconcile house and senate yet? Is there a draft of the final proposed bill posted anywhere?

Goals been sort of digesting and regurgitating what they wrote. It's on their web page but it's still nonsensical. Basically more laws, more intrusive red flags, all semies banned from 2016 or something like that with detachable magazines, were not sure. Nobody is yet.

 

[Picton]

Adding: 8 years worth going by the 2016 Healy proclamation. A 2-year old could construct a clearer messaging than the lot of them did with this monstrosity besides "guns bad."

That's a feature, not a bug. We've discussed this often. By intentionally making it impossible to understand, they make it impossible to know whether you're in compliance. So they seek to sow confusion in people who are minded to comply, knowing that most of those people will sooner leave anything they're not 100% sure of, in their safe. You're seeing it right here in this thread, with every single post written by a well-meaning gun owner struggling to comprehend this bill. Those are the guys most likely to err on the side of caution and stop exercising their RKBA.

That accomplishes their goal.

My advice is don't help them accomplish their goal. Become a person who is NOT minded to comply.

 

[VTski4x4]

 

[Optimator]

Been busy all week…what’s the latest status on this piece of communist garbage? Did they reconcile house and senate yet? Is there a draft of the final proposed bill posted anywhere?

No and no.

 

[Da_lucche]

You guys can hate me for this. but I always just spent the extra money so I didn’t have to deal with any of these problems. but as I’ve said, I’d be willing to give up all their value to let everybody have whatever the f*** they want.

The new law is complete nonsense. I’m confidential pass, and I’m confident the courts will jerk us around. I’m not completely confident that the Supreme Court is going to bitch slap it down because who knows who might be on it by the time it actually gets there. This is blatantly unconstitutional And goes against the Supreme Court rulings already…. But none of that matters because even if we “win” they’ll just pass another one what they need to do is issue a stay on all this shit until it gets to the Supreme Court don’t pass the law enforce it until it’s ruled constitutional.

And besides, there’s enough people in this state that don’t even read the f***ing laws or have any clue about any of this happening so they’re felons without even knowing it the only difference is is, it’ll be challenging to buy the stuff at a gun store. Just be really careful buying private party.

I echo this shit. To all of those in MA dealing with this shit....f*** them. I left Mass with 4 rifles without their muzzle devices pinned, 2 of them were evil killy flash hiders, unpinned stocks, adjustable to my hearts content. I didn't just keep them in my safe ... They were out in my apt. no f***ing trigger locks. They were out at my range for all to see and did I give a shit? Nope. f*** them.

**Espolon tequila is doing its job right now**

 

[not new guy]

Correct- and I believe the House Bill also banned revolvers (unless that part got amended)

Good. The more ridiculous the better.

 

[hunt4riches]

My neighbor thinks its fine to leave his dog outside barking non stop. I asked him to control his animal, he said I was harassing him.........could this lead to issues under the new bill where anyone can file a harassment order against you.

We live in a world where completely baseless accusations can get you dragged into court and your life ruined. My advice: As your neighbor has already used the H word, you have two choices.... "deal with it" or expect it to get nasty if it escalates further. His options are:
1. Trespass you from his property - you can now no longer ring his doorbell.
2. File a criminal complaint of harassment against you. He'd need to document multiple 'events' and usually this goes nowhere unless expensive attorneys are involved on his end.
3. If he knows you're a gun owner / LTC holder, false claims can be made that you threatened him / red-flag / etc....

So.... weigh it out. How much does the dog actually bark, how much does it actually impact you. If you pursue it, 1, 2 and 3 above are possibilities to consider. If your town has a strongly worded ordinance regarding noisy dogs, work with the town and leave your neighbor alone. That's my "I'm-some-random-douche-on-the-internet-who's-not-a-lawyer" advice. It's free. It's worth the paper it's not written on.

Now, for my anecdote.

In my neighborhood. Two kids with lifted trucks, huge tires and engines with lots of imprisoned horses decided it was cool to do burnouts and what not every time they leave the neighborhood. One of the common places to do this was in front of my house. That's where the T-junction is.... Well, I could care less... Problem: others in the neighborhood started complaining to each other, and then to the cops. The assumption was made I was the rat based on 'where' it was happening (predominantly), but it was the whole street besides me in reality. Months later, one of the kids in retribution for getting a visit from the cops did the absolute mother of all burnouts right in front of my house. I was actually out for a walk. The house diagonal to ours reported it. Because I was seen on foot the day the "super-rat-call" was made. My name got attached to it all, but I had nothing to do with it. It got ugly from there...

 

[btnh6668]

It's the MA pant shitter mentality. Every time one of these stupid laws comes up we have a bunch of people asking what kind of lube to put on their bunghole instead of thinking about ways to kill/stop/avoid the rapists.

Well based on many of the responses here. There is nothing you can do so just go ahead and stick that all the way up.

 

[hunt4riches]

The vast majority of these 2A cases are civil lawsuits, not criminal. There’s no right to a speedy trial in a civil case.

In Caetano, SCOTUS unanimously vacated the ruling of the MA SJC which convicted the petitioner of the crime of possessing a stun gun in MA. The SJC upheld the ban on stun guns by misstating Heller in 3 respects. SCOTUS summarily reversed and remanded the case.

The difference between Caetano and Bianchi is that Bianchi is still on interlocutory appeal. Caetano was not.

I have a stun gun.... I unzip my pants, and the ladies are stunned....

 

[hunt4riches]

I echo this shit. To all of those in MA dealing with this shit....f*** them. I left Mass with 4 rifles without their muzzle devices pinned, 2 of them were evil killy flash hiders, unpinned stocks, adjustable to my hearts content. I didn't just keep them in my safe ... They were out in my apt. no f***ing trigger locks. They were out at my range for all to see and did I give a shit? Nope. f*** them.

**Espolon tequila is doing its job right now**

that shit makes the best margaritas... and then when you're sick of the taste of lime you just grab that mf'er by the neck....