MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

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pastera said:
GOAL has access to insights and information we don't.

If you think Mass doesn't care about about scotus, you're wrong.
They very much care and are forced to comply - but they resist as much as possible while not crossing the line where scotus would be compelled to accept a cert petition.
As each opinion from scotus tightens the reigns on our legislators power, they need to wordsmith the text again to try to avoid an immediate loss.
Healy reinterpreted the 94 AWB language away from its established statutory and regulatory meanings.
This new bill attempts to write that interpretation into law. However, under Cargill they must write a clear statute that encompasses unthought of countermeasures around the law while not being ambiguous enough to get tossed.

Reading the dissent in Cargill, you can see Sotomayor struggling to confuse the issue and twist language in order to show that bump firing by handholding is legal whereas stabilizing the stock with a bump stock during the same bump fire action creates an illegal machinegun.
She continues to refer to a single forward pressure on the rifle with a bumpstock being the single function but doesn't explain why the exact same forward pressure required for unassisted bumpfire doesn't reach the threshold of a single function.

If a very savvy legal mind on the Supreme Court cannot clearly and concisely put into text a difference, how do you think the Mass general court's slobs can hope to do so?
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To be fair , the only reason she is there is she's a double minority and flaming liberal. , not because she is a brilliant legal mind.
 
EJFudd said:
That is my feeling. Care about the relatively trivial state cost of implementation when the $56 Billion state budget is already blown to Hell by the illegals crisis? I doubt it. Care about lawsuits when we have already promised them multiple lawsuits just based on what we've seen from them to date? Nope. All the lawsuits will do is give them an excuse to increase the AG's budget and staff of anti's with more deranged leftist DimocRATS. They'd love that!
No, they are just waiting for the right moment to screw us to the wall for the most loud and devastating effect. It's a leftist virtue signalling thing. My leftist state is tougher on its citizens than your leftist state. MA wants to take the lead once again in anti-Constitutional infringement of our rights.
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pastera said:
The state is rewriting large portions of the firearms code - in doing so they invalidate the rulings and case law dependent on those statutes.
So it becomes a blank slate for those looking to challenge - and challengers are armed with an increasing arsenal of tools handed down from Scotus.
If they leave things as is then we need to find novel arguments to challenge because the courts really don't like to revisit cases.
Once they change, if the law gets struck it's gone. It doesn't revert to the old version, it just goes away. That's why judges will give states time before their opinion goes into effect in order to allow new laws complying with the opinion to be put in place.
SCOTUS doesn't normally do that so if they strike down a licensing law in a state that state is defacto CC until they enact a compliant licensing scheme.
When Caetano was released, mass rushed a bill regulating stun guns since anyone could carry them wherever in the interim.
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Woodsloafer said:
You guys spend too much time thinking, writing, and debating about this, it will be what it will be and it's out of our control until then, and maybe even after that. Enjoy the summer months in the meantime, life is too short. My last post on this till it's out.
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Basically, it comes down to maybe a few things:
  • They have no clue, and are just plodding along doing whatever.
  • They have a clue, and are trying to change things on the fly to try to avoid the inevitable.
  • They have a clue, but don't care, and are pushing whatever they can through, and let the courts sort it out.
  • They only care about how it looks, and what it will do for THEM, and how badly they can hurt gun owners.
 
"Jammed up" so that they have to pass it in the middle of the last night before the end of the session, because "if they don't act now, lives will be lost waiting for the next legislative session".
 
VTski4x4 said:
"Jammed up" so that they have to pass it in the middle of the last night before the end of the session, because "if they don't act now, lives will be lost waiting for the next legislative session".
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Okay.

Then why are they waiting? Any plausible reason why you think they'd bother doing that?
 
Picton said:
Okay.

Then why are they waiting? Any plausible reason why you think they'd bother doing that?
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My thoughts vary from
* They are completely incompetent - unable to "square the circle" between the two bills without ticking off key house/senate members
* They are "gun shy" now that they know the likes of FPC/GOA (and now GOAL) are likely to make the "lawsuit printer go brrrr" and they'll end up embarrassed (eventually) and they don't want to lose the ground they've gained (on "Assault Weapons") by overreach in these new bills.
 
kijangus said:
My thoughts vary from
* They are completely incompetent - unable to "square the circle" between the two bills without ticking off key house/senate members
* They are "gun shy" now that they know the likes of FPC/GOA (and now GOAL) are likely to make the "lawsuit printer go brrrr" and they'll end up embarrassed (eventually) and they don't want to lose the ground they've gained (on "Assault Weapons") by overreach in these new bills.
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I like both these answers, but incline toward the second one.
 
Coyote33 said:
Basically, it comes down to maybe a few things:
  • They have no clue, and are just plodding along doing whatever.
  • They have a clue, and are trying to change things on the fly to try to avoid the inevitable.
  • They have a clue, but don't care, and are pushing whatever they can through, and let the courts sort it out.
  • They only care about how it looks, and what it will do for THEM, and how badly they can hurt gun owners.
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I like 3 and 4
 
Coyote33 said:
Basically, it comes down to maybe a few things:
  • They have no clue, and are just plodding along doing whatever.
  • They have a clue, and are trying to change things on the fly to try to avoid the inevitable.
  • They have a clue, but don't care, and are pushing whatever they can through, and let the courts sort it out.
  • They only care about how it looks, and what it will do for THEM, and how badly they can hurt gun owners.
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A large number, probably the major, are clueless. Most of the clueless also aren't all that bright.
All of these bills are handed to them from outside interests - and that's readily apparent in the early text of the bills.
What they care about is getting re-elected. That's it.
There are a few goat molesters like Linsky and Creem that are true believers - but they are the minority.
And there are a few that understand all of these bills are unconstitutional bullshit but push then anyway because they believe it gets them elected and they likely get large payouts from ban groups to do so.

To sum it up
They pretty much are all evil, dumb or both.
 
Is today the day - Friday before a holiday week and with the debate top of the news?
Great day for jamming home some tyranny!
 
Nah. If they were sneaking it in they'd do it on the eve of the actual holiday (not a week before), but I bet the hacks are going to be more focused on getting out of town for the holiday than doing actual work. Besides, they don't need to sneak stuff through. It's MA.
 
kijangus said:
* They are "gun shy" now that they know the likes of FPC/GOA (and now GOAL) are likely to make the "lawsuit printer go brrrr" and they'll end up embarrassed (eventually) and they don't want to lose the ground they've gained (on "Assault Weapons") by overreach in these new bills.
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I bet they're well aware that they will get sued into oblivion and probably lose - nationwide the tide is very much against gun control, thanks to SCOTUS decisions and, as you say, massive legal efforts by FPC and such.

Unfortunately, I don't think they care that they will lose. The goal is to virtue signal in front of Massachusetts Karens and proudly proclaim that they "did something" and that now children will be safe or something. When whatever garbage they pass gets tossed out in a few years, the media won't report on it. So in the end the scumbags on Beacon Hill get their brownie points and votes and we waste time and money.
 
kalash said:
Unfortunately, I don't think they care that they will lose. The goal is to virtue signal in front of Massachusetts Karens and proudly proclaim that they "did something" and that now children will be safe or something.
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Okay. I’m prepared to believe that, maybe.

But then why are they waiting?
 
Picton said:
This is what I mean by “yet to hear a convincing argument.”

This is Massachusetts. What “public response” are they really afraid of?
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It doesn’t take that many calls to tie up their phone lines, we’ve already seen times where they don’t have the time to talk, they just mark down your opinion and hang up. Maybe they don’t want to deal with that?

Plus, if there’s opportunity for news coverage, it’s possible that could have some backlash.
 
milktree said:
It doesn’t take that many calls to tie up their phone lines, we’ve already seen times where they don’t have the time to talk, they just mark down your opinion and hang up. Maybe they don’t want to deal with that?

Plus, if there’s opportunity for news coverage, it’s possible that could have some backlash.
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I mean sure. Maybe. I don’t think the legislative history of this bill supports that.

So far, I still buy the “they don’t want to get sued and don’t know how to avoid it” explanation.
 
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