MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

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I am honestly at a loss as to why they haven't done something.
The only thing I can think of is between Cargill (the text of the law is law) and Rahimi's (DVRO is okay but needs to be limited time and objectively violent), they are trying to fix the shit show of a bill into something that can survive initial scrutiny.
 
I am honestly at a loss as to why they haven't done something.
The only thing I can think of is between Cargill (the text of the law is law) and Rahimi's (DVRO is okay but needs to be limited time and objectively violent), they are trying to fix the shit show of a bill into something that can survive initial scrutiny.
Its not midnight yet.
 
I am honestly at a loss as to why they haven't done something.
The only thing I can think of is between Cargill (the text of the law is law) and Rahimi's (DVRO is okay but needs to be limited time and objectively violent), they are trying to fix the shit show of a bill into something that can survive initial scrutiny.
Me too. Could they be waiting to see the outcome of the Linsky and Decker bills that were resurrected and are to go to a third reading?
 
I am honestly at a loss as to why they haven't done something.
The only thing I can think of is between Cargill (the text of the law is law) and Rahimi's (DVRO is okay but needs to be limited time and objectively violent), they are trying to fix the shit show of a bill into something that can survive initial scrutiny.
Except their choices are house language, senate language, or omit. They cannot create new language. That’s my understanding of how the reconciliation works.
 
Except their choices are house language, senate language, or omit. They cannot create new language. That’s my understanding of how the reconciliation works.

I don't think it works quite like that, though IANAL.

My understanding is that whatever the compromise legislation is, it will need to be passed once again by both houses. So logically, it makes sense that they should change as little as possible on the theory that if it passed once, the same language should pass again.

But I don't think there's any "rule" about it. I suspect that if they have to add language, they could... but then they'd need to explain why they'd added it during the debate over the re-vote. Which would make life harder for them, and might endanger passage.

So I don't think there's a strict prohibition about it, though there might be?
 
I don't think it works quite like that, though IANAL.

My understanding is that whatever the compromise legislation is, it will need to be passed once again by both houses. So logically, it makes sense that they should change as little as possible on the theory that if it passed once, the same language should pass again.

But I don't think there's any "rule" about it. I suspect that if they have to add language, they could... but then they'd need to explain why they'd added it during the debate over the re-vote. Which would make life harder for them, and might endanger passage.

So I don't think there's a strict prohibition about it, though there might be?
Thanks, I think you’re correct reading more here:

Once they have the new bill, there’s no amendments by the chambers. It’s yes or no.
 
I am honestly at a loss as to why they haven't done something.
The only thing I can think of is between Cargill (the text of the law is law) and Rahimi's (DVRO is okay but needs to be limited time and objectively violent), they are trying to fix the shit show of a bill into something that can survive initial scrutiny.

Honestly I think that they can’t come to an agreement/accommodation on the severity of the legislation.

The make up is basically 4/2. Four super antis, and two not. Somebody probably has their feet dug in on doing something that will never pass constitutional muster and is blatantly unconstitutional. Hopefully the committee will implode. Unlikely, but one can hope.
 
I mean sure. Maybe. I don’t think the legislative history of this bill supports that.

So far, I still buy the “they don’t want to get sued and don’t know how to avoid it” explanation.

This explanation holds the most water.

My answer was the "f***, I dunno, maybe..." answer.
 
Honestly I think that they can’t come to an agreement/accommodation on the severity of the legislation.

The make up is basically 4/2. Four super antis, and two not. Somebody probably has their feet dug in on doing something that will never pass constitutional muster and is blatantly unconstitutional. Hopefully the committee will implode. Unlikely, but one can hope.

It's 4/2, but there are two other "members" as well: Speaker Mariano and Senator Spilka.

Especially Mariano, who is on record as being worried about Bruen. You better believe nothing is going to go before his House unless he likes it, and he sank an extremist version of this bill the very first time.

This is why we need to remember the legislative history of this bill. These six people aren't working in a vaccuum. Months of horse-trading is bound up in what they've been given, and the many people who traded those horses are all looking over their shoulders.
 
That coupled with Chevron being before the court means nebulous laws that are fleshed out through adaptable regulations is also, likely, out the window.
We very well could wind up with mail order guns delivered directly to homes being a common thing again in certain states if the GCG 68 gets dinged by other rulings and Chevron Doctrine gets knocked out so that the BATFe's regulatory power is significantly curtailed back to being a tax enforcement agency.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xvGlvurbU/


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xJ1anNeeV/


OK, NOW WHAT?
 
Especially Mariano, who is on record as being worried about Bruen. You better believe nothing is going to go before his House unless he likes it, and he sank an extremist version of this bill the very first time.
I don't think Mariano wants to be the MA Speaker of the House responsible for creating and passing the bill that eventually leads on MA's entire anti-2A regulatory scheme getting nullified as non-kosher by a federal court or SCotUS itself. He knows a broad bill could upend the apple cart now that challenges to legislative f***ery are more likely to lead to a judicial review outcome disfavorable to the legislative intent. They were used to having favorable courts and few plaintiffs willing to take them to court. Now they have many organizations willing to pay for lawfare and the courts are fairer to challenges. Changes the calculous for bad behavior significantly.
 
Now they have many organizations willing to pay for lawfare and the courts are fairer to challenges. Changes the calculous for bad behavior significantly.

FPC trolling them/tagging on Twitter probably discourages them when people from all over the U.S. post savage memes of them and their familes.

You have to love it.
 
I bet they're well aware that they will get sued into oblivion and probably lose - nationwide the tide is very much against gun control, thanks to SCOTUS decisions and, as you say, massive legal efforts by FPC and such.

Unfortunately, I don't think they care that they will lose. The goal is to virtue signal in front of Massachusetts Karens and proudly proclaim that they "did something" and that now children will be safe or something. When whatever garbage they pass gets tossed out in a few years, the media won't report on it. So in the end the scumbags on Beacon Hill get their brownie points and votes and we waste time and money.
Plus, it’s only taxpayers money to defend their unjust laws.
 
If I’m not mistaken, I read that the ruling on chevron won’t be retroactive?
Wrong thread, but, yes, Roberts was apparently explicit about that in his decision, saying existing decisions "are still subject to statutory stare decisis despite our change in interpretive methodology.".
 
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Honestly - we have just received three big cases that have ripped out foundational case law.
Even though Rahimi seems like a loss, and it was, there is a lot of good in it just with the holding that there must be due process findings of violence to remove a person's 2a rights.

What this means is there is a lot of ground to cover

As long as the makeup of the Supreme Court stays the same
 
JUST IN

the 922.g cases before the Supremes were GVR'd Granted cert, vacated, remanded back to the lower courts

the Supremes deny cert for all IL AW ban cases that were petitioned 8-1.

there was a slim chance since they're still interlocutory

Thomas' statement though has some dick slapping for IL, check it out.


Cite as: 603 U. S. ____ (2024) 1
Statement of THOMAS, J.
SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
DANE HARREL, ET AL. 23–877 v. KWAME RAOUL, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ILLINOIS,
ET AL.
JAVIER HERRERA
23–878 v. KWAME RAOUL, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ILLINOIS, ET AL.
CALEB BARNETT, ET AL. 23–879 v. KWAME RAOUL, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ILLINOIS,
ET AL.
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR GUN RIGHTS, ET AL. 23–880 v. CITY OF NAPERVILLE, ILLINOIS, ET AL.
JEREMY W. LANGLEY, ET AL.
23–944 v. BRENDAN F. KELLY, IN HIS OFFICIAL CAPACITY AS DIRECTOR OF THE ILLINOIS STATE POLICE, ET AL.
GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA, INC., ET AL. 23–1010 v. KWAME RAOUL, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF ILLINOIS,
ET AL.
ON PETITIONS FOR WRITS OF CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT
Nos. 23–877, 23–878, 23–879, 23–880, 23–944,
2 HARREL v. RAOUL
Statement of THOMAS, J.
and 23–1010. Decided July 2, 2024

The petitions for writs of certiorari are denied. JUSTICE ALITO would grant the petitions for writs of certiorari.

Statement of JUSTICE THOMAS.

The State of Illinois enacted a law that makes it a felony to possess what Illinois branded “assault weapons,” a term defined to include AR–15s. See Ill. Comp. Stat., ch. 720,§5/24–1.9(a)(1)(J)(ii)(II) (West 2023). “The AR–15 is the most popular semi-automatic rifle” in America and is therefore undeniably “in common use today.” Heller v. District of Columbia, 670 F. 3d 1244, 1287 (CADC 2011) (KAVANAUGH, J., dissenting); see also Garland v. Cargill, 602 U. S. 406, 430–431 (2024) (SOTOMAYOR, J., dissenting) (describing “semiautomatic rifles” such as the AR–15 as“commonly available”). Petitioners sought a preliminary injunction against the enforcement of the law, arguing that the law violates their Second Amendment right to “keep and bear Arms.” The Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit rejected petitioners’ request for a preliminary injunction, concluding “that the AR–15 . . . is not protected by the Second Amendment.” Bevis v. Naperville, 85 F. 4th 1175, 1197 (2023). According to the Seventh Circuit, the rifle selected by millions of Americans for self-defense and other lawful purposes does not even fall within the scope of the Arms referred to by the Second Amendment. Ibid. This Court is rightly wary of taking cases in an interlocutory posture. But, I hope we will consider the important issues presented by these petitions after the cases reach final judgment.
We have never squarely addressed what types of weapons are “Arms” protected by the Second Amendment. To be sure, we explained in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554
U. S. 570 (2008), that the Second Amendment’s protection“extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the

Cite as: 603 U. S. ____ (2024) 3
Statement of THOMAS, J.
time of the founding.” Id., at 582. And, we noted that “the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes,” id., at 625, recognizing “the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons,” id., at 627 (internal quotation marks omitted); see also Caetano v. Massachusetts, 577 U. S. 411, 417–419 (2016) (ALITO, J., concurring in judgment). But, this minimal guidance is far from a comprehensive framework for evaluating restrictions on types of weapons, and it leaves open essential questions such as what makes a weapon “bearable,” “dangerous,” or “unusual.”

The Seventh Circuit’s decision illustrates why this Court must provide more guidance on which weapons the Second Amendment covers. By contorting what little guidance our precedents provide, the Seventh Circuit concluded that the Second Amendment does not protect “militaristic” weapons. See 85 F. 4th, at 1199. It then tautologically defined “militaristic” weapons as those “that may be reserved for military use.” Id., at 1194. The Seventh Circuit’s contrived “non-militaristic” limitation on the Arms protected by the Second Amendment seems unmoored from both text and history. See Friedman v. Highland Park, 577 U. S. 1039, 1041 (2015) (THOMAS, J., dissenting from denial of certiorari). And, even on its own terms, the Seventh Circuit’s application of its definition is nonsensical. See 85 F. 4th, at 1222 (Brennan, J., dissenting) (“The AR–15 is a civilian,not military, weapon. No army in the world uses a service rifle that is only semiautomatic”). In my view, Illinois’ ban is “highly suspect because it broadly prohibits common semiautomatic firearms used for lawful purposes.” Friedman, 577 U. S., at 1042 (opinion of THOMAS, J.). It is difficult to see how the Seventh Circuit could have concluded that the most widely owned semiautomatic rifles are not “Arms” protected by the Second Amendment.
These petitions arise from a preliminary injunction, and
4 HARREL v. RAOUL
Statement of THOMAS, J.
the Seventh Circuit stressed that its merits analysis was merely “a preliminary look at the subject.” 85 F. 4th, at 1197. But, if the Seventh Circuit ultimately allows Illinois to ban America’s most common civilian rifle, we can—and should—review that decision once the cases reach a final judgment. The Court must not permit “the Seventh Circuit [to] relegat[e] the Second Amendment to a second-class right.” Friedman, 577 U. S., at 1043 (opinion of THOMAS, J.).
 
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JUST IN

the Supremes deny cert for all ban cases that were petitioned 8-1.

there was a slim chance since they're still interlocutory

Thomas' statement though has some dick slapping for IL, check it out.

Justice Thomas to the Illinois 7th Circuit……

IMG_3098.gif
 
JUST IN

the 922.g cases before the Supremes were GVR'd Granted cert, vacated, remanded back to the lower courts

the Supremes deny cert for all IL AW ban cases that were petitioned 8-1.

there was a slim chance since they're still interlocutory

Thomas' statement though has some dick slapping for IL, check it out.

Can someone explain this to me like I'm driving alone and wearing two masks?
Good news? Somewhat good news? Mixed? Bad news?
 
Good review by Jared here
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4yb4jn_en0

Generally good is my take - especially Justice Thomas delivering a smack down to Illinois telling on using poor logic to decide which arms are covered by 2A vs not.
So they go back to the 7th circuit and we'll go from there.
Also somewhat good for us in MA by proxy.
I wonder if this is what Day, Mariano et al were waiting for?
 

This guy sucks: 2.5 min of ads, spends 4 minutes reading the statement, and says nothing. Can't believe he has as much of an audience that he does.
One is better off reading the J. Thomas opinion for 5 minutes then spending 12 min with this dolt.
Use your brains and read what SCOTUS writes you will have a better understanding
 
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